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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 11, 2012 11:06:21 GMT -5
Maybe he can clarify, but I don't think he meant that Football had any part in the "new" Big East. The football schools would have to form their own league not the Big East, and that the cinci, uconn, memphis, and temple football teams only would play in. Similar to how we have all sports in the BE except for football
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 11, 2012 11:06:36 GMT -5
Sorry Cal, thats what I meant. The BE would dissolve, and then reform with the same name, but without Tulane, SMU et al. Temple, Memphis, UCONN and Cinci would be invited as bball only members, as there would be no football conference.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 11, 2012 11:08:05 GMT -5
^this
again if they were somehow able to pull in 20-25 mil/year TV deal with this setup, it would be the best thing to happen ever. Not to mention our other sports would be set up to excel as well thankfully. Lost in all this was our other sports homes. I don't know how that somehow becomes worth so much but hell i'll take that deal in a heartbeat
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 11, 2012 11:26:32 GMT -5
Honest question: what is to be gained by this strategy discussed by these seven schools?
Whether it is issues of money, scheduling, recruiting, coaching retention, impact on other sports, etc. this approach seems a perfect recipe for the deemphasis of intercollegiate athletics at Georgetown University and I will certainly say as such, but perhaps some of you out there can offer me a reasoned explanation that I am not quite understanding. Thanks in advance for your comments.
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hoyaback
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Post by hoyaback on Dec 11, 2012 11:31:08 GMT -5
I don't understand the dissolve/resolve solution - at the moment we dissolve, don't we still lose the NCAA tourney money, the auto bid, the MSG contract? Its also unclear to me why we'd automatically get the Big East trademark back....
I'm in favor of the bball only conference, but i dont understand how we get there.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 11, 2012 11:31:41 GMT -5
since you clearly seem to think it leads to sports losing priority at gtown, can you explain why it would? I have been against breaking away to form a bball only conference on alot of levels because I thought this would lead to a similar ending for gtown sports mainly because of money. If they were able to get the setup discussed while keeping memphis temple uconn and cinci they still have an extremely strong conference for all sports and if they are able to land the TV deal number floated this maintains our ability to fund everything as the amount we bring in is very comparable to what we have now. It was all about the money in this move. If it's there then we're golden.
I'd be curious to hear the other side from you since I have had the same thought as you before that media deal number was floated
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 11, 2012 11:33:35 GMT -5
I don't understand the dissolve/resolve solution - at the moment we dissolve, don't we still lose the NCAA tourney money, the auto bid, the MSG contract? Its also unclear to me why we'd automatically get the Big East trademark back.... I'm in favor of the bball only conference, but i dont understand how we get there. Until July 1 the BE bball only members hold the majority of votes in the BE. Having the majority they can "dissolve" the league by kicking out the football schools. This leaves them wit the BE name, autobids, conference tourney, etc etc etc. The key is timing. July 1 is when Temple becomes a full member which would throw off the majority in the bball onlies favor
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hoyaback
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Post by hoyaback on Dec 11, 2012 11:43:20 GMT -5
mike jensen of the philly inquirer indicates Temple is already a voting member as of this last july...
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 11, 2012 11:46:57 GMT -5
From a reliable source (hopefully more reliable than the Nerlens source : The catholic schools are seriously considering splitting. While maintaining the Big East brand as their own. In addition, they would like to add St Louis, Xavier, Dayton, Butler and VCU. But the kicker I found interesting was that they believe they can also add Cinci, Uconn, Temple, and Memphis, rendering the current Big East football members to a football only conference which many believe would be better anyway. Ultimately the New Big East would have 16 members in all sports (minus football of course). They would keep MSG for conference tourney. Would have markets in NY, Chicago, DC, Philly, among others. And would be a competitive top 5 basketball conference that also allows for other sports to keep a more regional schedule. In addition, ESPN has hinted that they would be willing to pay somewhere in the range of 20-25 million for this arrangement, which would be similar to any deal that they would get by remaining in the current set up. Found it all interesting. Thought Id share.... I posted something VERY similar in the realignment thread a week or two ago (without inside knowledge of any kind). It just makes sense--why part with UConn, Temple, Cincy etc. if you don't have to? I think they'd rather play us in basketball and the non-revenue sports, and I know we'd like to include them in our league for those sports too. Essentially, the Big East stops sponsoring football. The 7 Catholic schools plus UConn, Temple, Cincy and Memphis remain in the Big East and pick up a few (1? 3? 5?) of the best schools from the A-10. At that point, Temple, Cincy, Conn and Memphis need to find a home for their football, so they will end up in a situation like Temple was in the last several years when they had their football team in the MAC and all their other sports in the A-10 which didn't have FBS football. So where would these 4 football teams go in this scenario? Basically, the same as now. There are already 4 teams coming as "football onlies"--they have their non-revenue sports housed in different leagues, and just looking for an FBS football league. So UConn, Memphis, Temple, and Cincy join up with Boise, SDSU, Navy and ECU, and you're at 8.... THEN, the southern wing of the conference can break off--SMU, Houston, UCF, USF, and Tulane. Potentially add ECU to this group as well. They can then join up with 5 or 7 other southern schools that do not have FBS football to house their basketball and non-revenue sports. They'd then be in the same situation as all the teams above, and they'd all come together to form the football conference that has been cobbled together over the last several months. So to break it down: Basketball and Non-Revenue Big East: UConn, Memphis, Cincy, Temple + 7 Catholics and 1-5 of the best teams from the A-10 New Southern Conference: Tulane, SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, ECU and 4-6 southern schools that do not play FBS football Big West: Boise, SDSU, other current members Patriot: Unchanged (includes Navy) Football Newly Named/Created Conference: UConn, Temple, Cincy, Memphis, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane, ECU, Navy, Boise, SDSU Another spin on this would be that BSU and SDSU ditch completely and stay out west. The 6 Southern BE football schools split off and form their own new all sports league, picking up the best geographically relevant schools they can, and they allow UConn, Temple, Cincy and Memphis to play in their football league (again the Temple/MAC type arrangement). I think they'd welcome some football schools with a little bit of cache left (ie. Cincy and UConn have a few combined BCS bowls on their resume over the last 5-7 years), but I wouldn't be surprised if those schools were as unexcited as we are about sending their non-revenue teams all around the country to schools they don't really have a connection with. So under this scenario you'd have: Big East: UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincy, + 7 Catholics and 1-5 of the best teams from the A-10 New Southern All-Sport League: USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane, ECU, Southern Miss, UAB, FIU(?), Marshall(?), Tulsa(?), ODU(?) +UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis for football only. To me, both of these scenarios have some appeal. They're the best Georgetown can hope for. They make some geographic sense, as we get out of the setup where our non-rev teams have to travel to Houston, SMU, etc. and vice versa. We keep all our non revenue stuff pretty manageable and no worse that it has been in prior years. We end up in a very solid basketball league, and we keep the Big East name and the tourney at MSG. We also keep our automatic tournament bid. I am not sure what kind of tv deal this league commands, but it's a quality league that keeps us relevant for the time being, which IMO is the best we can hope for. I recognize that it does have its issues, and before anybody points it out to me, yes, UConn to the ACC could still happen when/if the ACC gets poached again by the Big 12/SEC/B1G. However, it is a bridge, which is all we can hope for for now. It buys us some time which is the best we can do. Maybe UConn does bolt for the ACC in a few years (they'll go as soon as they can, as they should) but hopefully between now and then we've built a new, strong basketball league that will get us on tv and maintain national relevance. If we can't do that, we're destined for mid-majordom no matter what happens.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 11, 2012 11:48:42 GMT -5
mike jensen of the philly inquirer indicates Temple is already a voting member as of this last july... Ah I saw that tweet as well and read it wrong. Thought it meant this upcoming July. My mistake. Either way if Temple or any other school could be persuaded that this is the best setup (which it seems to be if you're thinking outside the box for these football schools as well), then you're golden. I don't think the schools would ever consider breaking away and forming a new conference without the big east name
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Dec 11, 2012 11:54:04 GMT -5
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Dec 11, 2012 11:55:08 GMT -5
My read of the ESPN article is that there's arguable doubt as to whether Temple is a full voting member at this time, i.e., for other-than-football issues.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 11, 2012 11:59:45 GMT -5
This hinges on whether this league could actually get a TV deal that pays 7 figures per school. If that's true, than this arrangement is pretty attractive.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 11, 2012 12:01:29 GMT -5
I think that we have very little control over if Cincy / UConn bolt for another conference. I don't think there's anything we can do about that. However, we need to hold onto them (and Memphis and Temple) as long as possible. And if they can pull off the scenario RBHoya just described, I'd be ecstatic, even if we do eventually lose Cincinnati and UConn--it'd give us time to get a contract, show there's TV demand, build the IAC (how's that coming, btw) and build rivalries with some of the newer schools, leaving us in a much stronger position when/if those two schools leave then we would be otherwise.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 11, 2012 12:10:28 GMT -5
This hinges on whether this league could actually get a TV deal that pays 7 figures per school. If that's true, than this arrangement is pretty attractive. +1 Though you still need to evaluate any scenario's prospects before and after UConn/Cincy leave.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 11, 2012 12:18:46 GMT -5
DFW, if athletics are deemphasized at Georgetown it's a decision that will be made by the administration. Do you believe that in exploring their options to achieve some measure of stability in an atmosphere of utter chaos in the league they are demonstrating they are giving up on fielding elite teams in basketball and other sports? I just don't see it. They would be irresponsible NOT to find out whether this arrangement or something similar could generate comparable revenues to what we've enjoyed in the current BE. We may be best served financially in clinging to the vestiges of the BE as a football/basketball conference, but it would be silly not to find out if we have options and the only way to do that is to talk about it with the other schools and make the necessary inquiries on the TV dollars side.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Dec 11, 2012 12:47:05 GMT -5
Another article talking about this with a recent meeting of the BB schools in NY www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21353826/big-easts-non-football-members-meet-discuss-possible-breakawayI am acutely aware of the things in DFW's post, but also looking at the recent discussions/articles also acutely aware that GU is looking at a $1 M payout from a new BE contract. Plus being on the hook potentially to play a lot of games with a lot of sports in a lot of weird places they really can't afford to send them. FWIW I keep thinking that a reasonably tight knit group of high end BB schools in the NE should be able to get a contract from NBC sports or MSG for more than $1 M per year that would keep a high end BB focus for JTIII and reduce travel, etc for the rest of the program. Probably a pipe dream but one I keep having nightly.
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Dec 11, 2012 12:57:39 GMT -5
nychoya3 is on point. Doing nothing is not a strategy. It is encouraging to see that basketball schools are finally taking a more active role in the definition of their future versus being defined by everyone else, as we have been during the last 5 years+.
I am as disappointed about the Big East's tailspin as anyone. However, once I put nostalgia and emotion aside, it has become clear that we need to doing something focused on basketball for the basketball schools. The current framework can only defy the laws of physics for so long. By maintaining our current path, the Big East as we know it may not end tomorrow, a month from now, a year from now, maybe even a few years from now, however, it will end. And when it ends, Georgetown will be even more weakened than it already is.
DFW, while the status quo may appear relatively attractive at this point in time, I assure you every day in the Big East as currently constructed is better than the next. The reconstitution discussed in this thread will take bravery by the institutions, and may even result in lower economic outcome in the short term. However, over the long term we at least will be able to dictate our future, we'll create a differentiated league uniquely focused on basketball in attractive markets with strong brands, and I believe ultimately the expected value will be meaningfully higher than our alternative of riding it out and hoping for the best.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Dec 11, 2012 12:58:10 GMT -5
No TV contract has been signed, so we have no idea that the bball school are only going to get $1mil.
To me this seems like a negotiating tactic. Basically the BE is communicating to the TV networks that if you dont give us enough, this league is falling apart and you will have nothing.
No network is going to sign a contract with the league knowing that that contract is going to make the league break apart. It would be a total waste of money.
But maybe the bball schools are serious about breaking away. Ok, but there a ton of hurdles to overcome before it makes sense.
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hoyaback
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Post by hoyaback on Dec 11, 2012 13:01:37 GMT -5
courtesy of casual hoya - ajerseyguy.com/?p=4202this makes it sound like the bball schools have control of their future. It comes down to revenue for the new tv contract/bball quality hit vs. viability of bball only conference and thats it.
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