Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 14:42:22 GMT -5
whether a school is private, public, catholic, or vegan should have exactly ZERO bearing on this. Unless they're vegan. Then it does.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 13, 2012 14:42:32 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2012 14:43:56 GMT -5
Teams in every major conference travel like that all the time. Even non-revenue sports. I dont think its a major stumbling block. Right but those teams have football money. Which is the only way they can afford to do that.
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Post by fsohoya on Dec 13, 2012 14:45:35 GMT -5
whether a school is private, public, catholic, or vegan should have exactly ZERO bearing on this. Thought Rosslyn was mentioning Richmond on grounds it was public, like VCU. And, BTW, public does have something to do with it. Publics tend to be bigger and have more fans. And don't forget how Virginia politics got involved when the ACC first raided the Big East. Plus if we don't want the new league pigeonholed as religious or small-time, having a public school or two as members would help.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 13, 2012 14:46:42 GMT -5
If you need to go coast-to-coast, I'll pitch the 15 team, 3 division league idea again for how I think it might work best: Gtown/Nova/St. Johns/SHU/PC, Depaul/Xavier/Marquette/Butler/Dayton, Zaga/St. Mary's/Creighton/WSU/SLU. Home and home against your division, away vs. one division, home vs. the other = 18 games.
Tinker with the west if you think you can get UNLV over WSU or SLU.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2012 14:46:46 GMT -5
I'd try a via home-and-home scheduling agreement first. No need to drag Zaga into the whole conference. That doesn't do anything to sell the conference to a sports network. People's ideas here don't seem to understand the incredible knife's edge the entire program is sitting on. Jumping -- and ending up with Richmond (value to a sports network is negative) instead of Gonzaga or even VCU -- is a real problem. No problem with VCU but Gonzaga is just too far I think. I'd love to keep this thing in two time zones. We all know how important the money thing is- but are you really sure that the inclusion of the zags to this league gets enough extra money to fly the field hockey and diving teams to Spokane? I think that is possible but far from proven.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2012 14:51:27 GMT -5
If you want to go coast-to-coast, I'll pitch the 15 team, 3 division league idea again for how I think it might work best: Gtown/Nova/St. Johns/SHU/PC, Depaul/Xavier/Marquette/Butler/Dayton, Zaga/St. Mary's/Creighton/WSU/SLU. Home and home against your division, away vs. one division, home vs. the other = 18 games. Tinker with the west if you think you can get UNLV over WSU or SLU. What is with the American obsession with over-complicating sports? I mean honestly as a people we love nothing more than over-legislating things that are not broken. See football overtime rules. Why on earth do we need 3 divisions? Just because we can doesn't mean we should. Everyone plays everyone once....then you rotate the home and homes. 5 or 6 teams is way too small for a basketball division. You only need divisions when you have grown TOO big. And then you collapse Have we learned nothing? Let's keep it simple.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 13, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -5
Hate the random home-and-homes the Big East has now; like that divisions save on travel cost, foster rivalries, and are organized.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 13, 2012 14:55:13 GMT -5
the whole point is the divisions cut down on some of the expenses. of traveling.
Only having to play a few crossover games means for example the east coast schools would only have to make the cross country trip maybe once a year. The conference tourney played at MSG and then everyone travels. If this is where the league is heading in terms of breaking away. You need the strongest teams available to form the new league. Gonzaga fits the bill
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2012 14:55:46 GMT -5
RPI Creighton 29 Butler 7 St Louis 57 Dayton 68 Xavier 41
Tulane 214 Houston 197 USF 163
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 13, 2012 14:57:13 GMT -5
I put together a spreadsheet with a look at the historical nature of some of the programs being discussed. Hopefully it provides some insight into who has been good / mediocre / DePaul in the past 5 years. Basically, everyone that has been talked about as an addition has been a top 50 RPI/KenPom school the past 5 years except St. Louis, Creighton and Umass. Dayton hasn't been particularly strong either, except for one year. docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApfuhxtrwJPKdEVlQXg2QzNraVQ4WVFYeklDMkhSMmcI'm going to try and add the teams we definitely would leave behind if I get another few minutes at work.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2012 14:58:07 GMT -5
To cut down on travel costs is only valid reason- but I'm advocating staying in the midwest and east to begin with. I think having divisions actually prevents rivalries from forming by relegating half of your games as second class status games. Even without divisions you can schedule home and homes to foster rivalries and minimize travel. Doesn't have to be an even rotation. Marquette and Depaul for example would certainly be home and home every year and so would Gtown and Nova.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Dec 13, 2012 14:58:27 GMT -5
whether a school is private, public, catholic, or vegan should have exactly ZERO bearing on this. Thought Rosslyn was mentioning Richmond on grounds it was public, like VCU. And, BTW, public does have something to do with it. Publics tend to be bigger and have more fans. And don't forget how Virginia politics got involved when the ACC first raided the Big East. Plus if we don't want the new league pigeonholed as religious or small-time, having a public school or two as members would help. I mentioned UofR because people keep tossing out the names of 10 schools they want invited and one of them is peculiarly a second-tier state school. UofR would be a substitute if people wanted a team in the Hampton Roads market without adding a public school to an otherwise all-private/mostly-Catholic league. (I didn't realize until looking it up just now that UofR has fewer than 3k undergrads).
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Dec 13, 2012 14:59:20 GMT -5
Teams in every major conference travel like that all the time. Even non-revenue sports. I dont think its a major stumbling block. Right but those teams have football money. You should look at the schedule for our non-revenue sports because they travel to FLA and CA out of conference. Also air travel isnt really that expensive anymore. DCA-LAC tickets are less that $400.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Dec 13, 2012 14:59:37 GMT -5
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Dec 13, 2012 15:00:02 GMT -5
Xavier, Butler and Creighton were first three to be contacted by the 7... Are there any plans to see if Temple, Memphis, UConn, Cinci have any interest in playing Olympic sports in this league with us?
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Dec 13, 2012 15:01:08 GMT -5
A 10-12 team superleague that focuses on rivalries and basketball tradition should stand out and could be marketed very well. Everyone agrees the football shake out has not just killed basketball rivalries but many of the best football rivalries.
As for travel - Georgetown is currently in a league that would require going to Texas and New Orleans, so even adding a Gonzaga or a St. Mary's - you are talking an extra 75 minutes on a plane once a year if it comes to it.
Be interesting to see if they try and keep schools like Temple and Memphis that would add a ton of bang on the basketball side of things right out of the gate.
What is interesting about this, is that this is what football should have done- formed their own, football only conferences and left everything else - from basketball to women's volleyball to lacrosse - to be in leagues based more purely on geography and natural rivalries that make it easier to be a true student athlete.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Dec 13, 2012 15:02:27 GMT -5
In the last 5 years, UConn/Cincy/Memphis/Temple have twice as many NCAA tourney bids as the Catholic 7 combined.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Dec 13, 2012 15:03:24 GMT -5
I'm so excited to not have to worry about football anymore. I really believe this is a good thing. By forming a conference of basketball-centric schools, we remove uncertainty, form new rivalries, and build a new history and tradition. If we can get programs like Butler and Xavier on board, tenacious programs that compete year in and year out, then this really does have the potential to be a special product.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 13, 2012 15:03:47 GMT -5
I once had a roadtrip that was a friday night game at Depaul and a sunday noon game at USF in the same weekend....
awful. but it happened
Agree that divisions is not ideal. To me the key to all this lies in whether they can keep Temple and Memphis
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