SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 15, 2012 14:22:53 GMT -5
I was thinking about what previous Thompson incarnation this team compares best to -- but there really isn't one in style. In terms of overall talent level, I lean towards '10-11.
I think the bigs are going to around the level of Vaughn -- some nice games, but inconsistent and unable to really get a low post game against talented teams. Can't protect the rim or rebound consistently.
Otto and Whit are the Freeman and Wright -- the stars expected to make the leap if the team is going to be really good. F&W were creators and better scorers, but Otto and Whit make that up with size and defense, I think. Similar quality, different style - so it's not a great comparison.
I think this team is slightly deeper -- that had Clark and Hollis as the remaining starters, but our big man depth was Henry and Nate -- and that's already with Hollis playing PF and Vee, Markel and Benimon.
If we find a way to score, this team could be much better than that one -- which had a nice stretch in the middle of the season but could never really defend consistently.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Nov 15, 2012 14:32:41 GMT -5
You do realize that a college season is very physically taxing and that in some games against poor competition one might not play as hard as they would against a top 25 team, right? Also DSR has played in a grand total of two games at this level? Sure the defensive criticism may be warranted, but you act like improvement in that area is a pipe dream for him. You do realize that his strengths/weaknesses are apparent when you watch him play-and seeing him play for 3 years now--it wouldn't have been too much of a stretch to say that defense would've been addressed by now. It's taxing for his teammates too--they don't have any issue trying to defend. Is it going to be lockdown perfect? No--nor do I expect it to be-but giving a damn is about showing respect to yourself, teammates and coaches who allow you to play. If someone has seen this kid play and didn't think his defense didn't need to be discussed, then it's on them for not communicating. Hard to believe that since other kids are doing it one way--he's not. As for Hopkins--we'll agree to disagree. I don't see what you are--he got muscled by smallish players--he'd start a move from 5 feet and by end of shot was pushed 3-4 feet out. He's got to be stronger on that move or more physical players/tougher opponents will make him a liability on court. He had a bad SR year at DeMatha and was a nice surprise in spot minutes last year. Want last year's Mikael to be on court--not the HS version who was an inconsistent/often disinterested player. That's what shows on defense--he plays tough initially and then when he gets bumped/moved--he stands/watches. You do realize that weaknesses can be improved, right? You say its taxing on his teammates too, but you dont mention that DSR wasnt the only one that played poor defense last night. Most of his lapses came when the result was already pretty much determined. And you do know that defense is to be addressed by his coach, right? His HS coach, Steve Smith, believed him to be a good defender and always matched him up with the best perimeter player on the other team. JT3 is completely aware of the defensive potential/capabilities of this team and will address his defensive deficiencies going forward. its not gonna happen overnight. He has to get used to this level of competition, everyone isnt going to come into the college game looking like Greg. Also, why do you keep bringing up what he did in high school? This is a different game. Markel was a phenomenal scorer all his life until he got here, but has he been a phenomenal scorer for us? No. Things change. And regarding Hopkins, you think maybe that he was "pushed out of position" on certain shot attempts because he was trying to get a better angle on the shot? If he was getting pushed around against Liberty it did nothing to affect the dynamic of the game, the scoreboard, or anything else. Lets agree to disagree since you seem to be in denial. He is much better than Sims was as a junior. He dropped 13, 5, 3 last night and is two games into his sophomore year, get off his back. I mean, damn, he's our second leading scorer right now. As long as he doesn't turn the ball over at a high rate and doesn't get out muscled for many rebounds he should be very solid for us, as soon as this year. He doesn't need to be one of our best players. We have the luxury of having length and talent around him that help to take pressure off of a young center. If he averages around 10 and 6 that should be a plus, and wasn't that around the expectation going into the season? This board is jumping all over his jock as if he's playing below expectations right now. It's simply too early to come to conclusion about the ability of players we've seen limited time out of (especially at such critical positions). Wouldn't it be silly to say, "Wow Stephen Domingo really needs to work on his long range jumper, he won't be effective in our offense shooting like that. Why don't we recruit shooters at his position?" two games into the season?
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 15, 2012 15:31:13 GMT -5
I think the bigs are going to around the level of Vaughn -- some nice games, but inconsistent and unable to really get a low post game against talented teams. Can't protect the rim or rebound consistently. Agree. I have voiced this same sentiment to a friend/poster, but never posted it in a thread. I think Vaughn is our ceiling this year in the post, though I hope the guys can improve on that.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 15, 2012 15:31:47 GMT -5
You do realize that his strengths/weaknesses are apparent when you watch him play-and seeing him play for 3 years now--it wouldn't have been too much of a stretch to say that defense would've been addressed by now. It's taxing for his teammates too--they don't have any issue trying to defend. Is it going to be lockdown perfect? No--nor do I expect it to be-but giving a damn is about showing respect to yourself, teammates and coaches who allow you to play. If someone has seen this kid play and didn't think his defense didn't need to be discussed, then it's on them for not communicating. Hard to believe that since other kids are doing it one way--he's not. As for Hopkins--we'll agree to disagree. I don't see what you are--he got muscled by smallish players--he'd start a move from 5 feet and by end of shot was pushed 3-4 feet out. He's got to be stronger on that move or more physical players/tougher opponents will make him a liability on court. He had a bad SR year at DeMatha and was a nice surprise in spot minutes last year. Want last year's Mikael to be on court--not the HS version who was an inconsistent/often disinterested player. That's what shows on defense--he plays tough initially and then when he gets bumped/moved--he stands/watches. You do realize that weaknesses can be improved, right? You say its taxing on his teammates too, but you dont mention that DSR wasnt the only one that played poor defense last night. Most of his lapses came when the result was already pretty much determined. And you do know that defense is to be addressed by his coach, right? His HS coach, Steve Smith, believed him to be a good defender and always matched him up with the best perimeter player on the other team. JT3 is completely aware of the defensive potential/capabilities of this team and will address his defensive deficiencies going forward. its not gonna happen overnight. He has to get used to this level of competition, everyone isnt going to come into the college game looking like Greg. Also, why do you keep bringing up what he did in high school? This is a different game. Markel was a phenomenal scorer all his life until he got here, but has he been a phenomenal scorer for us? No. Things change. And regarding Hopkins, you think maybe that he was "pushed out of position" on certain shot attempts because he was trying to get a better angle on the shot? If he was getting pushed around against Liberty it did nothing to affect the dynamic of the game, the scoreboard, or anything else. Lets agree to disagree since you seem to be in denial. He is much better than Sims was as a junior. He dropped 13, 5, 3 last night and is two games into his sophomore year, get off his back. I mean, damn, he's our second leading scorer right now. As long as he doesn't turn the ball over at a high rate and doesn't get out muscled for many rebounds he should be very solid for us, as soon as this year. He doesn't need to be one of our best players. We have the luxury of having length and talent around him that help to take pressure off of a young center. If he averages around 10 and 6 that should be a plus, and wasn't that around the expectation going into the season? This board is jumping all over his jock as if he's playing below expectations right now. It's simply too early to come to conclusion about the ability of players we've seen limited time out of (especially at such critical positions). Wouldn't it be silly to say, "Wow Stephen Domingo really needs to work on his long range jumper, he won't be effective in our offense shooting like that. Why don't we recruit shooters at his position?" two games into the season? Don't worry. The usual suspects are coming in here proclaiming doom right now so that when we suffer our first big loss they can say I told you so. But look at their track record. They said the same thing last year and last year was our most successful season since the 2007-2008 season.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 15, 2012 16:00:07 GMT -5
I'm not excusing his lack of effort, but I'm not shocked that a kid who has never been required to play on the defensive end isn't doing it at this level. I just have confidence in the staff that this will change or he will have his minutes drastically reduced as the season moves on. Yeah, honestly, I'd tend to be more worried with the offense then the defense with our younger team. For instance, Domingo passed up 5-6 looks before he finally shot. Being at the game last night, it just looked to me that guys were in the wrong spot at the wrong time on defense. That is matter of experience. The staff can look at the film and say, "look, when this happens, stop hedging over, stay in this spot instead." Still too much jumping on ball fakes for my liking last night, but it wasnt so bad.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 15, 2012 16:10:01 GMT -5
I think the bigs are going to around the level of Vaughn -- some nice games, but inconsistent and unable to really get a low post game against talented teams. Can't protect the rim or rebound consistently. Agree. I have voiced this same sentiment to a friend/poster, but never posted it in a thread. I think Vaughn is our ceiling this year in the post, though I hope the guys can improve on that. While I think there is some merit to this comparison now, the one benefit we have is that our guys are young and talented, and I think they could improve substantially throughout the course of the season. The issue with Vaughn was that while he was a solid player (and certainly the best we had that season, though Sims began showing some life too) in his senior year, he was already pretty much at his ceiling as far as potential goes. Vaughn was a great Hoya, but his athletic abilities were limited compared to the group we have now. Thus, while I do not see our frontcourt presence any stronger than the 2010-2011 season NOW, I think the big benefit is that there is a decent chance that by the end of the season, we could be better than that. I'd certainly take this frontcourt to the 2010-2011 lineup any day.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 15, 2012 16:14:07 GMT -5
Yeah, there's no doubt this is a better frontcourt. Frosh Lubick, Jr Sims, Sr Vaughn was so thin that Hollis and Jerelle Benimon both played a lot of 4 time.
We'll always have someone capable of playing the four out there if we want this year, barring injury -- Otto, Lubick, Ayegba and Hopkins seems to be the real rotation at the moment.
But Freeman and Wright brought a dimension to the backcourt we haven't seen yet.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 15, 2012 19:38:57 GMT -5
There's nobody close, at this point, to last yr's Clark, either.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Nov 15, 2012 19:46:05 GMT -5
Our starting SG seems close enough to Nov 15, 2011 Clark, right?
I'm not saying he is Clark, because Clak was a very good leader and college basketball player that is my favorite Hoya of all time. But Greg's off to a pretty good start.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 15, 2012 19:57:40 GMT -5
Love the start for Whit! He'll play a lot on the back line when two of Starks, Jabril, and DSR are on the floor, a combination that I believe will get significant minutes. None of those three, at this point in their careers, or Whit, have Clark's explosiveness, ability to take it to the hoop, or ability to just make a play when we need it. That's asking alot, I know, but we had it, and don't have it right now. And Clark just continued what we had with Free and Chris.
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