SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 4, 2012 14:02:49 GMT -5
So is he "back"?
He has won 2 of his last 5 tournaments. Ironically, or... maybe not, the two he won were tournaments started by probably the two greatest living US golfers, legends Arnold Palmer and yesterday, Jack Nicklaus's Memorial tournament in Columbus Ohio. And the way he won yesterday -- starting the day 4 strokes off the lead, birdied 4 of first 7 holes and 3 of last 4 to snatch the victory. Also, on 16 he made one of those absolutely unbelievable "Tiger shots" we used to see so frequently - a really tough chip in from high grass to a downward sloping green.
On the other hand, in between his two tourney victories, he finished 40th, missed cut, and 40th again in his the other 3 of his most recent 5.
So what do folks think? is he "back" -- that is, will he pretty much always be a factor in every tournament he enters -- especially the majors? Or is this a temporary blip. I can't think of any athlete in any sport who suffered such a precipitous decline in his game concurrent with a self-inflicted, total collapse of his personal like.
Not making any judgements on the latter, just talking golf here. For me, it sure was exciting watching that back nine yesterday. Whoa. Clearly, he is the most amazing golfer in recent memory.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 4, 2012 14:53:58 GMT -5
I think the wins have shown he can be a factor (and he has been a factor in 1 or 2 majors since returning). The inconsistency shows that he's not back to being the old Tiger. He could win a major, or he could miss the cut. The old Tiger was going to be in contention--it was more a question of whether he was going to blow everyone out or be in the hunt. That Tiger is never coming back.
Personally, as a former huge Tiger fan (he lost his sheen when he started having temper tantrums on the course), I'm more excited to see which of the younger guys makes a run (McIlroy, Fowler, Dustin Johnson, etc). Also pulling for Bubba Watson, who is just awesome and has no chance b/c his game is nowhere near disciplined enough for the U.S. Open.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 4, 2012 15:01:10 GMT -5
Depends on what you mean by "back." IMO, the Tiger Woods that played in 2000-2002? You will never see that guy again. You probably won't even ever see the Tiger of 2005-07 again (before his knee surgery).
Having said that, Tiger Woods is still ridiculously talented and will contend for majors and other significant tournaments for several more years. Not every time out, not even close, but he's still got wins left. (Obviously).
Maybe what I mean is that Tiger can still dominate a tournament, but I don't think he'll ever dominate the tour again.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 4, 2012 15:35:36 GMT -5
Good points guys and Tbird, I do like the young guys -- especially McElroy and Bubba Watson, at least so far.
But I do know the PGA Tour and the Networks would like nothing better than to see Tiger in the hunt on Sundays - especially big tourney's like the Memorial and obviously, the Majors. Like him, hate him, whatever the case may be... he is a fascinating story.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 4, 2012 16:29:46 GMT -5
Tiger will be the number one player in the world by the end of July and will be the dominant player in the game for the next several years. He may not dominate like he did before (it's totally unreasonable to expect another run like 1999-2001) but he's going to win enough to get all the records he covets and will do it by his early 40s. It will be interesting to see how much interest he has left once he breaks all the meaningful records. At one time, I thought he'd reset his goals for something like 100 wins and 25 majors but I get the feeling that he's very tired of his life and might completely lose interest once he achieves his life long goal.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 4, 2012 20:19:08 GMT -5
Subtle change in Tiger's game. Less driver, more three wood. Never the most accurate off the tee with a driver, Tiger seems to be sacrificing distance for accuracy, perhaps because of the injury issues he has suffered over the past few years. He is 30th in distance off the tee this year, which is way down for him. But in total driving, which combines distance with accuracy, after Jack's tourney he is first. Are we seeing Tiger adjust to the reality of his fragile knee and Achilles? I hope he has figured out how to play like this - with a little less distance - and will go on to break the record.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 4, 2012 20:55:08 GMT -5
Tiger has and will continue to benefit from the Sanduskys and Fines of the world. The man who was public enemy number one is now just a serial philanderer who fooled around with willing adult partners.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jun 10, 2012 19:44:27 GMT -5
Tiger Woods, y'all, Tiger, Tiger Woods! Yea, he's back. Gonna win another 4 plus times this year, at least one major, the FedEx Cup, you know, the usual. Injury is the only thing that could stop him. The Memorial is obviously a venue where he feels comfortable, having won there four times previously, but it's always just been a matter of time until he takes back what is his. I know it will come as a surprise to some who insist on viewing his golf game through the filter of his moral failings, but Tiger Woods did not cease to be the greatest golfer, and one of a small handful of the greatest athletes of all time, just because people found out he is a bit of an a-hole.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jun 11, 2012 14:48:49 GMT -5
Boz wrote:
Depends on what you mean by "back." IMO, the Tiger Woods that played in 2000-2002? You will never see that guy again. You probably won't even ever see the Tiger of 2005-07 again (before his knee surgery).
Having said that, Tiger Woods is still ridiculously talented and will contend for majors and other significant tournaments for several more years. Not every time out, not even close, but he's still got wins left. (Obviously).
Maybe what I mean is that Tiger can still dominate a tournament, but I don't think he'll ever dominate the tour again.
That's pretty much the same thing I said when the very same question came up down here a couple of weeks ago. The Tiger that was Djokovic-like at the Majors will probably never be seen again ... from Tiger or anyone else. The dominance that he had in his prime was simple remarkable. And the better he got, the more his dominance would sustain itself The other golfers would inexplicably tighten up when facing the challenge of being pared with Tiger on a fateful Sunday. But don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that they lost it and that Tiger didn't "win" it on such a final round. I'm just saying that on the toughest courses and with the most cameras and eyes focused on him, Tiger was able to perform. Meanwhile, not only were others generally unable to elevate their game, most in fact stumbled in such a position. And for all the power in Tiger's swing, I think his success is as much, if not more, resulted from his dedicated focus and determination around the green. Certainly Tiger would make birdies, but what really separated him from other golfers was his ability to avoid bogeys. When he was lining up a 7 or 8 foot put, you just knew it was going in. Now I do think that we could see that type of mental toughness from Tiger again. And if we do, then I still think Tiger has a solid shot to break Jack's record of majors. But I don't think we will ever see the stretch where Tiger wins something like 7 out of 12 majors again. That type of thing was just incredible. And accordingly, I do think we will continue to see a growth in guys winning their first ever major, because I think that the overall level of golf worldwide has simply gotten better almost exponentially. There are more and more world class golfers at younger and younger ages every year. And just as we have seen star players in basketball, baseball and football at increasingly younger and younger ages, I think we will continue to see that in golf. As that happens, then I think it gets tougher and tougher to win. But one thing is for sure: golf sure is a lot more interesting when Tiger is involved on the weekend. And in that regard, I am certainly glad that he's back in the discussion.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 11, 2012 15:01:16 GMT -5
Tiger Woods did not cease to be the greatest golfer Umm, actually he did.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jun 11, 2012 21:41:22 GMT -5
Context kc, context. Yes, Tiger's public shaming break took a toll, but the injuries and subsequent swing retool are more to blame for his rough patch, imho, which seems to be ending. Honestly, I am a huge Tiger fan. Watching him play, I mean, what compares? In golf, Phil Mickelson is an obvious second choice, and while Phil hasn't been a major winner on Tiger's level, his overall skill level is not that far off, together they are light years ahead of any other golfers on the planet, and have been for some time. Phil is an all-timer, no doubt. MJ? Bird and Magic? Stone cold killers all, though obviously MJ's supreme physical gifts lend themselves more to a Tiger comparison. I guess being a 6'9" point guard ain't too shabby either, come to think of it. Federer at his best certainly compares, elevating tennis to an art form. Now, I appreciate the anger and disappointment the unmasking of Tiger's fraudulent public persona caused, I do. However, I wasn't really surprised by it, his drive to dominate has always had a slight whiff of sociopath to it. Still, I am completely sick and tired of all of the pundits who lined up for miles to take their whacks at Tiger, declare him dead, his golfing days over. Really, Mr. Pundit? You feel comfortable making definitive statements about Tiger Woods' golfing future? Like you bequeathed his 70(!) PGA Tour wins and 14 majors unto him, and he's like some Kardashian with no pornos left to film. Have you lost your freaking minds? All due respect to those on this board who think his very best is behind him, hey, you may be right. People keep bringing up '99-'01, or '05-'07, like these days will never be duplicated. Well, he won five times, including the U.S. Open, before shutting it down in '08. Then, in '09, he won seven times, six on the PGA, and came within a career round by Y.E. Yang from winning the PGA Championship as well. That is domination my friends, pure and simple. Tiger's intimidation factor is gone? At the Memorial last week, obviously a place where he is comfortable, he looked mighty locked in long before Sunday's heroics, and Ricky Fowler's final round 84 certainly seemed like the kind of quaking in your cleats performance turned in by Tiger's playing partner in year's past, who knows. Is it Thursday yet?
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 12, 2012 4:59:10 GMT -5
Y. E. Yang hardly required a career round to beat Tiger at the 2009 PGA - he shot 70 and Tiger limped to a 75 on the final day.
Whether Tiger's poor play over the last 3 seasons is due to the scandal or injury or swing changes - or a combination of those things, which I think is most likely - the fact is that his performance and results have dropped off significantly. Maybe his two wins this year signal that he is returning to form, but his other results this season certainly don't indicate the consistent excellence that once came so easily to him. I hope he does return to the Tiger of old. He was amazing to watch. But to blame the "punditry" for his swoon seems off-base to me.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jun 12, 2012 7:31:48 GMT -5
I don't "blame" the punditry for Tiger's woes, not at all. I blame the punditry for idiotic commentary relating Tiger's public standing to his on-course performance. I am sure, guru, you've seen the like, how Dustin, or Rory, or Lee, or whomever will no longer be intimidated by Tiger on the course, now that his marriage is over, and he's been exposed as someone who wants to, shamefully, shtup everything that moves. All of these solemn declarations of how "Tiger is done", like popular opinion or sentiment had anything at all to do with his golfing greatness, which is patently absurd.
As far as the Yangster, I stand by my comment. Forget the score, he out dueled Tiger on a major championship Sunday, including, as I recall, a six-iron from the rough over a towering tree to two feet for a tap-in bird to seal the deal. Y.E. has not sniffed such a win before or since, and in the process, became the only golfer to topple Tiger from the lead on the last day of a major, I'd bet he'd agree with me that was his career day, so far.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 12, 2012 8:00:46 GMT -5
I don't "blame" the punditry for Tiger's woes, not at all. I blame the punditry for idiotic commentary relating Tiger's public standing to his on-course performance. I am sure, guru, you've seen the like, how Dustin, or Rory, or Lee, or whomever will no longer be intimidated by Tiger on the course, now that his marriage is over, and he's been exposed as someone who wants to, shamefully, shtup everything that moves. All of these solemn declarations of how "Tiger is done", like popular opinion or sentiment had anything at all to do with his golfing greatness, which is patently absurd. As far as the Yangster, I stand by my comment. Forget the score, he out dueled Tiger on a major championship Sunday, including, as I recall, a six-iron from the rough over a towering tree to two feet for a tap-in bird to seal the deal. Y.E. has not sniffed such a win before or since, and in the process, became the only golfer to topple Tiger from the lead on the last day of a major, I'd bet he'd agree with me that was his career day, so far. My goodness, you're more of an Eldrick acolyte than Mark Steinberg. For the record, I agree that the constant swing changes and the injuries have had more of an effect on his game than the off-the-course issues. That being said, I think you're grossly inflating the volume of "solemn declarations of how 'Tiger is done'". I think most pundits took the position that they expected Tiger to bounce back and didn't want to believe the "old Tiger" was gone, but that the objective evidence was forcing them to an inevitable conclusion.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jun 12, 2012 9:09:52 GMT -5
Yes, at this point, even Kultida probably wishes I'd just shut up. Still, I found it odd how his troubles at the Masters, Players and Quail Hollow seemed, for some, and we're talking Faldo here, among others, to seemingly completely negate his victory at Bay Hill. Even I would have taken a two win year in '12 as a success on his road back, and here he had one before halftime, and it was as if it never happened. I mean, even at Tiger's greatest, he still lost more than he won, it's golf you know. Listening to Faldo at the Memorial last week, he was coming dangerously close, until Tiger shut him up, to what I like to call "Tiger-denier" territory. That rich vein of thought that brought us assurances over the years that Tiger doesn't have what it takes mentally to win at stern tests such as the U.S. Open, or what have you, that existed from the beginning. Now, I don't want anyone to think I'm wearing my tin-foil hat (it's at the cleaners), but there has always been, to me, a touch of racial animosity towards Tiger, and his regrettable behavior has allowed it to blossom these last years. Fine. Is he back? At the Memorial, he seemed fully committed, fully focused, and having fun. A very good sign. As many have rightly pointed out, there are many great young talents out there who could rise up any week, Yang-like, and make even Tiger's best not good enough. Bubba, Rory, Dufner, these guys are great, no matter the era. This week? The course sounds so tough, so hard and fast, that a degree of spin here, or a millimeter one way or the other there, times seventy or so, it's hard to predict. If Tiger puts it in the fairway, he'll be in the mix.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 18, 2012 9:11:05 GMT -5
Seems Tiger answered that himself with an emphatic... no. Or at least, not yet.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 18, 2012 9:16:47 GMT -5
Seems Tiger answered that himself with an emphatic... no. Or at least, not yet. Tiger-denier!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 18, 2012 9:36:43 GMT -5
If Tiger isn't "back", neither is Mickleson, McIlroy, Watson, et al.
Golf is in this cycle where no one is consistently competing in the top level of major tournaments, leaving a run of forgettable winners that drop off the big stage within a year or so (Zach Johnson, Keegan Bradley, Darren Clarke)
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jun 18, 2012 12:33:01 GMT -5
Shawn Michael anyone?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 18, 2012 13:15:15 GMT -5
That's Shaun Micheel, wrestling boy.
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