sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 8, 2015 16:27:05 GMT -5
I got off track but I think using the Wallace example, everyone was always waiting on the next guy. We had success with Wallace and both he and Sapp could be primary ballhandlers on that '07 team whether you deemed them to be Pg's or not. So I think that is needed in March. Wright/Starks were ballhandlers but injuries (wright/freeman) and Otto's worst performance as a hoya doomed those post season efforts. I think you have to have a couple of ballhandlers on each team and right now we have guys that can handle it but are not primary ballhandlers (those in the rotation every game that is so excludes Tre). Why is this being discussed in the Agau thread, I have no idea. The thing is I don't see Wallace/Sapp in 07 being any better primary ball handlers than what we have now. Neither had the handle, penetration abilities, or passing abilities to distinguish themselves from our current backcourt options, especially in 2007. We struggled with Villanova in both regular season games for this reason, we had no one to reliably beat the pressure. I don't think this means anything one way or another about this team, except to say we've been successful in March without a point guard before.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 8, 2015 16:44:09 GMT -5
I got off track but I think using the Wallace example, everyone was always waiting on the next guy. We had success with Wallace and both he and Sapp could be primary ballhandlers on that '07 team whether you deemed them to be Pg's or not. So I think that is needed in March. Wright/Starks were ballhandlers but injuries (wright/freeman) and Otto's worst performance as a hoya doomed those post season efforts. I think you have to have a couple of ballhandlers on each team and right now we have guys that can handle it but are not primary ballhandlers (those in the rotation every game that is so excludes Tre). Why is this being discussed in the Agau thread, I have no idea. The thing is I don't see Wallace/Sapp in 07 being any better primary ball handlers than what we have now. Neither had the handle, penetration abilities, or passing abilities to distinguish themselves from our current backcourt options, especially in 2007. We struggled with Villanova in both regular season games for this reason, we had no one to reliably beat the pressure. I don't think this means anything one way or another about this team, except to say we've been successful in March without a point guard before. The difference that year was that we had 3-4 NBA players on the roster (Roy, Jeff, DaJuan, PE Jr)
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 8, 2015 16:50:23 GMT -5
The thing is I don't see Wallace/Sapp in 07 being any better primary ball handlers than what we have now. Neither had the handle, penetration abilities, or passing abilities to distinguish themselves from our current backcourt options, especially in 2007. We struggled with Villanova in both regular season games for this reason, we had no one to reliably beat the pressure. I don't think this means anything one way or another about this team, except to say we've been successful in March without a point guard before. The difference that year was that we had 3-4 NBA players on the roster (Roy, Jeff, DaJuan, PE Jr) Well of course. I wasn't comparing the teams just the notion that teams with no point guards don't do well in March. I wasn't trying to insinuate THIS team was going to the final four or other such nonsense.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 8, 2015 16:50:36 GMT -5
My point was that anytime you have to have "x" to win, it's usually wrong. There's a ton of ways to win.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 8, 2015 17:10:13 GMT -5
The thing is I don't see Wallace/Sapp in 07 being any better primary ball handlers than what we have now. Neither had the handle, penetration abilities, or passing abilities to distinguish themselves from our current backcourt options, especially in 2007. We struggled with Villanova in both regular season games for this reason, we had no one to reliably beat the pressure. I don't think this means anything one way or another about this team, except to say we've been successful in March without a point guard before. The difference that year was that we had 3-4 NBA players on the roster (Roy, Jeff, DaJuan, PE Jr) Unrelated to the discussion, keep in mind that the jury is still out on who will end up in the NBA from this roster.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 9, 2015 12:34:00 GMT -5
The difference that year was that we had 3-4 NBA players on the roster (Roy, Jeff, DaJuan, PE Jr) Unrelated to the discussion, keep in mind that the jury is still out on who will end up in the NBA from this roster. Totally related. The reason we had postseason success without a point guard was the fact that we had such mature big man talent, including two juniors who went on to be lottery picks (Roy and Jeff). Yes, our freshman may end up going to the NBA but they're only freshmen without significant development under their belt. Totally relevant to the discussion
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 9, 2015 12:51:40 GMT -5
Unrelated to the discussion, keep in mind that the jury is still out on who will end up in the NBA from this roster. Totally related. The reason we had postseason success without a point guard was the fact that we had such mature big man talent, including two juniors who went on to be lottery picks (Roy and Jeff). Yes, our freshman may end up going to the NBA but they're only freshmen without significant development under their belt. Totally relevant to the discussion I meant I wasn't even following the discussion and still am not
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 9, 2015 12:58:13 GMT -5
How about the form of his lay-ups in those videos? I want a C that can hit those regularly.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Jan 9, 2015 16:22:59 GMT -5
Adding Agau is HUGE for next year. I don't know what he will be able to actually contribute, but when it directly fills the team's most urgent need, I'll take a chance on a guy with top 100 credentials and two years of college seasoning at Louisville any day. Now lets just go find another PG/SG!!
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 9, 2015 16:46:21 GMT -5
I try to temper my enthusiasm with every recruit. I hope that this transfer works out and he seems well worth the shot. However, it should be recalled that of the four seniors this year, Smith and Hopkins were both top 100 recruits and neither for a variety of reasons has proven to have the stellar career expected at the time of his recruitment. So let's hope for the best but also keep in check expectations for what appears to be either an undersized center or a power forward still in need of developmentat least on the offensive end of the court.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Jan 9, 2015 17:11:25 GMT -5
Love drawing those conclusions based on internet videos... boya, you do remember that we recruited him heavily when he was coming out, right? In fact, just before he visited L'ville and subsequently announced for the Cards, Agau named the Hoyas as his leader. Think I'll trust III on this one. Sure do, and was excited about him at the time. But after Agau chose the Ville, JT3 successfully recruited Isaac Copeland, Paul White, Marcus Derrickson and Jesse Govan. A lot of the minutes at the 3-5 positions are now accounted for with those recruits, which is a change compared to when Agau was initially recruited. Additionally, in the 1.5 years at Louisville, Agau got essentially zero high major game experience (unlike Josh Smith before he transferred here) and he also suffered a serious injury that required surgery. That's in addition to being suspended a couple games last year for an attitude issue, when Pitino said "He wasn't acting the way a University of Louisville basketball player should." Totally trust JT3 and that if we land this guy, the minutes will take care of themselves and the coach will effectively manage any chemistry issues. Personally, I just don't understand why Agau would want to choose Georgetown compared to his other options (assuming he wants to play heavy minutes at a position that suits his size) and I think the 8 and 6 expectations/Jeff Green comparisons being placed on this kid are completely unrealistic. I think you are missing the point on a few fronts. He is coming in to play the 5, so talk of Copeland, White and Derrickson I don't think really makes sense -- there isn't going to be a ton of competition at the 5. Don't know what other situation he will find where his competition for playing time will be a true freshman and someone who has essentially gotten no game action. On playing time, he is coming from a situation where he got zero playing time, so 15-25 minutes a game would be a huge leap. As to center suiting him. Maybe it wouldn't on another team, but playing center at Georgetown is unique. Hell, Josh Smith is out by the three point line in our offense as much as he is under the basket. If we are going up against a team that bangs inside, he might get some time at the 4 too and play alongside Govan/Hayes.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Jan 9, 2015 17:14:48 GMT -5
I try to temper my enthusiasm with every recruit. I hope that this transfer works out and he seems well worth the shot. However, it should be recalled that of the four seniors this year, Smith and Hopkins were both top 100 recruits and neither for a variety of reasons has proven to have the stellar career expected at the time of his recruitment. So let's hope for the best but also keep in check expectations for what appears to be either an undersized center or a power forward still in need of developmentat least on the offensive end of the court. I agree we don't know how good he'll be, but given the urgent need, I can' help but be excited. I would be pumped if we got Hopkins like production out of him. The fact is, we were going to be beyond thin at the 5 and power 4 (white and copeland can't bang yet), and at this stage in the year, I don't think we could reasonably hope for a better outcome to fill that need.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 17:23:08 GMT -5
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 9, 2015 18:11:34 GMT -5
I try to temper my enthusiasm with every recruit. I hope that this transfer works out and he seems well worth the shot. However, it should be recalled that of the four seniors this year, Smith and Hopkins were both top 100 recruits and neither for a variety of reasons has proven to have the stellar career expected at the time of his recruitment. So let's hope for the best but also keep in check expectations for what appears to be either an undersized center or a power forward still in need of developmentat least on the offensive end of the court. I agree we don't know how good he'll be, but given the urgent need, I can' help but be excited. I would be pumped if we got Hopkins like production out of him. The fact is, we were going to be beyond thin at the 5 and power 4 (white and copeland can't bang yet), and at this stage in the year, I don't think we could reasonably hope for a better outcome to fill that need. Well you are probably right about what is out there, though I am increasingly a fan of the 5th year transfer that seems to be an increasingly common occurrence each year as more and more players seek one last shot at another school without sitting out. Of course, it is difficult to even anticipate who that might be.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 9, 2015 19:45:55 GMT -5
I can't quite figure out the logic of the folks who aren't somewhat excited about Agau coming to GU.
Given our team needs and current scholarship situation, it's not really the right time to be waiting just in case something better comes along if they think Agau can help the team next year. Perhaps all the folks who think this is a mistake are on the Hayes bandwagon, but we are in the case where more = better as long as the more has even a chance of being a contributor.
Which comes to the second point. Yes, he didn't play at Louisville, and as a recruit he was hardly in "no doubt" rankings. But he has size, talent, and both this staff and the Louisville staff saw enough in him to want to recruit him. They can be wrong, but no one on this board has seen enough to him to feel confident in their evaluation over the staff, have they? I'm not saying trust the staff; I'm saying give them some credit.
At worst, he's Moses, right?
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Post by daymondmyles on Jan 9, 2015 22:41:56 GMT -5
I can't quite figure out the logic of the folks who aren't somewhat excited about Agau coming to GU. Given our team needs and current scholarship situation, it's not really the right time to be waiting just in case something better comes along if they think Agau can help the team next year. Perhaps all the folks who think this is a mistake are on the Hayes bandwagon, but we are in the case where more = better as long as the more has even a chance of being a contributor. Which comes to the second point. Yes, he didn't play at Louisville, and as a recruit he was hardly in "no doubt" rankings. But he has size, talent, and both this staff and the Louisville staff saw enough in him to want to recruit him. They can be wrong, but no one on this board has seen enough to him to feel confident in their evaluation over the staff, have they? I'm not saying trust the staff; I'm saying give them some credit. At worst, he's Moses, right? Exactly. And somebody brought up the Luke Fischer example. He got injured in preseason, fell behind and got very few minutes on a far worse team than Louisville. And the very next year at a new program, he ain't too shabby.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 9, 2015 23:04:57 GMT -5
Anyone knows what was the injury he had at Louisville and has he fully recovered?
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 9, 2015 23:16:39 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 10, 2015 0:26:32 GMT -5
I can't quite figure out the logic of the folks who aren't somewhat excited about Agau coming to GU. Given our team needs and current scholarship situation, it's not really the right time to be waiting just in case something better comes along if they think Agau can help the team next year. Perhaps all the folks who think this is a mistake are on the Hayes bandwagon, but we are in the case where more = better as long as the more has even a chance of being a contributor. Which comes to the second point. Yes, he didn't play at Louisville, and as a recruit he was hardly in "no doubt" rankings. But he has size, talent, and both this staff and the Louisville staff saw enough in him to want to recruit him. They can be wrong, but no one on this board has seen enough to him to feel confident in their evaluation over the staff, have they? I'm not saying trust the staff; I'm saying give them some credit. At worst, he's Moses, right? Exactly. And somebody brought up the Luke Fischer example. He got injured in preseason, fell behind and got very few minutes on a far worse team than Louisville. And the very next year at a new program, he ain't too shabby. To be fair though unlike Pitino with Agua, Crean didn't want Fischer to leave Indiana.. This is Crean's quote on it.. “Luke has decided to withdraw from Indiana and pursue another educational and basketball opportunity,” Indiana coach Tom Crean said in the release. “He explained to us he is looking for a different fit for him. We hate to see a fine young man like Luke leave, but he has made his decision and we wish the entire Fischer family well."
“It is what it is, and you wish him the best,” Crean said. “We’ll miss his potential. We’ll miss him as a person. He did an outstanding job here, academically. He’s an outstanding young man. And we move right on. The team moves right on, practice moves right on, and we just go. Here's Pitino's take on Agua.. "I sat down with Akoy and we agreed that it is in the best interest of his future to transfer to another university where playing time will be more readily available," Pitino said in the same release. "I'm very fond of Akoy as a person. He exemplifies all that we want in a Louisville man. We wish him nothing but good fortune going forward."The two transfers aren't the same at all imo.. I can't say it enough that I have no problems with Agua coming to G'town and he definitely will fill a need especially if he wants to play the 5 spot.. I've kept up with this thread a lot and I don't remember reading one post saying the staff should pass on Agua.. Are some of us more reserved in what we expect him to be right away at G'town then others, yes but that doesn't mean we're upset that he's coming.. Fwiw I read this L'ville write up on him where it mentioned he was suspended last year for a "minor attitude" issue. Reading that makes me think he may have been dumped in the doghouse last season, couple that with off-season surgery this summer probably caused him to fall further behind there.. www.gocards.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/akoy_agau_862090.htmlEither way I hope he turns into an AA while leading the squad back to a final four..
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 10, 2015 8:14:02 GMT -5
Exactly. And somebody brought up the Luke Fischer example. He got injured in preseason, fell behind and got very few minutes on a far worse team than Louisville. And the very next year at a new program, he ain't too shabby. To be fair though unlike Pitino with Agua, Crean didn't want Fischer to leave Indiana.. This is Crean's quote on it.. “Luke has decided to withdraw from Indiana and pursue another educational and basketball opportunity,” Indiana coach Tom Crean said in the release. “He explained to us he is looking for a different fit for him. We hate to see a fine young man like Luke leave, but he has made his decision and we wish the entire Fischer family well."
“It is what it is, and you wish him the best,” Crean said. “We’ll miss his potential. We’ll miss him as a person. He did an outstanding job here, academically. He’s an outstanding young man. And we move right on. The team moves right on, practice moves right on, and we just go. Here's Pitino's take on Agua.. "I sat down with Akoy and we agreed that it is in the best interest of his future to transfer to another university where playing time will be more readily available," Pitino said in the same release. "I'm very fond of Akoy as a person. He exemplifies all that we want in a Louisville man. We wish him nothing but good fortune going forward."The two transfers aren't the same at all imo.. I can't say it enough that I have no problems with Agua coming to G'town and he definitely will fill a need especially if he wants to play the 5 spot.. I've kept up with this thread a lot and I don't remember reading one post saying the staff should pass on Agua.. Are some of us more reserved in what we expect him to be right away at G'town then others, yes but that doesn't mean we're upset that he's coming.. Fwiw I read this L'ville write up on him where it mentioned he was suspended last year for a "minor attitude" issue. Reading that makes me think he may have been dumped in the doghouse last season, couple that with off-season surgery this summer probably caused him to fall further behind there.. www.gocards.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/akoy_agau_862090.htmlEither way I hope he turns into an AA while leading the squad back to a final four.. Nothing personal but you have to be careful when taking those kind of quotes at face value.
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