TC
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Post by TC on Apr 23, 2012 9:26:19 GMT -5
He already is the leader of the team. Who else would it be? Nate? Why not? I generally don't associate "guy dogging it on defense and not listening to the Coach" with 'team leader'. Unless it's an awful, dysfunctional team - which this wasn't.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 23, 2012 10:05:47 GMT -5
He already is the leader of the team. Who else would it be? Nate? Why not? I generally don't associate "guy dogging it on defense and not listening to the Coach" with 'team leader'. Unless it's an awful, dysfunctional team - which this wasn't. I don't know if Markel is going to be the team leader or not. But you have taken one incident, which the coach handled and the player seemed to have responded to with maturity, and have drawn a conclusion about the player, his leadership ability, and (at least seemingly) his character. Nice work. I would say more but I would be getting in to ad hominem territory, so I'll just leave it at that.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 23, 2012 10:33:19 GMT -5
Why not? I generally don't associate "guy dogging it on defense and not listening to the Coach" with 'team leader'. Unless it's an awful, dysfunctional team - which this wasn't. I don't know if Markel is going to be the team leader or not. But you have taken one incident, which the coach handled and the player seemed to have responded to with maturity, and have drawn a conclusion about the player, his leadership ability, and (at least seemingly) his character. Nice work. I would say more but I would be getting in to ad hominem territory, so I'll just leave it at that. Um, what else are we supposed to do? All we have to go on is what we see on the court. Unless we want to refrain from having this conversation at all, that incident is highly relevant to this debate. FYI - I personally believe he will be a leader.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 23, 2012 10:40:58 GMT -5
Markel will play a significant leadership role on next year's team. I'm not sure how anyone who has watched this team is any detail can doubt that.
For one, he's got structural support for being a team leader. He's a PG, so he's already directing the offense. He's a likely starter -- that's another point. And Lubick and him are the upperclassmen who have played (Aaron and Moses are also in their third academic year but don't have the the same game experience). In a similar vein, even if he's quiet, Otto Porter is going to play a leadership role -- people look to a team's best player for cues regardless of whether they want the responsibility.
More importantly, though, if you watch Markel, he asserts himself into a leadership role. He directs his teammates on O and D; he interacts with the coaches; he isn't afraid to get on his teammates.
Now whether he's effective in that role is a different story -- that is, whether the team gets better because of his choices there. Leadership can be a matter of style -- what motivates one person can demotivate others. And Markel's got some high profile leadership mistakes from last year (namely the actions that led to benching).
It doesn't mean he can't be a good leader this year. But I don't know how people think he won't be a leader of this team. He's going to be, barring a major personality change or someone taking all his minutes.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 23, 2012 11:01:03 GMT -5
PS WE WILL HAVE another tough leader next year jabril.. ill never forget at every kenner game Jabril lyelling at hops to move and hustle and do the right thing can always use more then on leader some by toughness nate some by hustling example.. etc im kinda excited sorta kinda CANT WAIT FOR KENNER GO HOYAS
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 23, 2012 12:03:11 GMT -5
I just hope Markel asserts himself on offense next year. I think the talent is there for him to do so.
As for playing hard on defense, I'm pretty sure we can file that one under "Lesson Learned." Others may disagree, but I don't think there will be any lingering issues on that front.
At least from an effort standpoint. Markel's never going to be as good as, say, Greg, on defense, because he just doesn't have the physical gifts that Greg does.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 23, 2012 12:23:57 GMT -5
I don't know if Markel is going to be the team leader or not. But you have taken one incident, which the coach handled and the player seemed to have responded to with maturity, and have drawn a conclusion about the player, his leadership ability, and (at least seemingly) his character. Nice work. I would say more but I would be getting in to ad hominem territory, so I'll just leave it at that. Um, what else are we supposed to do? All we have to go on is what we see on the court. Unless we want to refrain from having this conversation at all, that incident is highly relevant to this debate. FYI - I personally believe he will be a leader. Oh, I don't know, maybe look at all of the circumstances (as handily included in SF's post subsequent to ours), rather than one incident? Unless, of course, you think that Markel dogged it on defense and wasn't listening to the coach for the past two years. I didn't see that, but maybe I just missed it.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 23, 2012 12:27:33 GMT -5
I agree Boz. I just hope his offense doesn't rely on 3s.
Also, on defense, hopefully Coach has the players cheat to give Markel help on defense. Good defense teams help each other to cover each other's defense. Either way, Jason's long arm's are going to be difficult to replace at the top. That said, our excellent defense did include Markel on the court many times, was he our best defender, no, but he is active at the top of the zone and is vocal, very important on Defense.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2012 12:33:29 GMT -5
I agree Boz. I just hope his offense doesn't rely on 3s. Also, on defense, hopefully Coach has the players cheat to give Markel help on defense. Good defense teams help each other to cover each other's defense. Either way, Jason's long arm's are going to be difficult to replace at the top. That said, our excellent defense did include Markel on the court many times, was he our best defender, no, but he is active at the top of the zone and is vocal, very important on Defense. He lacks lateral quickness to be a great defender. His feet are very slow moving sideways. The other thing is he takes away our advantage of having a very long, tall defense. Especially in the zone since people can shoot over him as opposed to say Whittington or Trawick. I think Whittington is best at the 2 where he creates a huge mismatch. But the only way I see Whit getting huge minutes at the 2 is if Trawick and DSR play alot of pg along with Markel. If Markel plays too many minutes that forces Trawick/DSR to the 2 (and DSR isn't that big for a 2) and Whittington to the 3. Then we lose alot of the advantages that Whit brings to the table.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 23, 2012 12:52:39 GMT -5
He lacks lateral quickness to be a great defender. His feet are very slow moving sideways. The other thing is he takes away our advantage of having a very long, tall defense. Especially in the zone since people can shoot over him as opposed to say Whittington or Trawick. I think Whittington is best at the 2 where he creates a huge mismatch. But the only way I see Whit getting huge minutes at the 2 is if Trawick and DSR play alot of pg along with Markel. If Markel plays too many minutes that forces Trawick/DSR to the 2 (and DSR isn't that big for a 2) and Whittington to the 3. Then we lose alot of the advantages that Whit brings to the table. Since Markel is playing, unfortunately you are correct, we don't have as long of a defense this next year. Additionally, I think Trawick will play most of the backup 1 minutes and DSR will get some of them but mostly back-up the 2 with Aaron. Whit will have to play the 3 sometimes but he is an effective defender against 3s as well and many of the best players other teams have are 3s. Since Markel will be a Jr. I hope he is working on his lateral quickness/agility and mostly just working on playing and becoming a better general with the ball. Finally, while Markel isn't "long" he isn't the shortest either. He will have to give more effort on defense then if he was taller but its not like having a 6'7" guy in the post defending 7 foooters.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 23, 2012 13:41:40 GMT -5
I don't know if Markel is going to be the team leader or not. But you have taken one incident, which the coach handled and the player seemed to have responded to with maturity, and have drawn a conclusion about the player, his leadership ability, and (at least seemingly) his character. Nice work. I would say more but I would be getting in to ad hominem territory, so I'll just leave it at that. Look, the title of the thread is "Markel will be the leader of next year's team". Not "a leader", but "the leader". Personally I feel like the leader is going to be Otto, and ought to be Otto. I don't see the maturity out of Markel that you guys do, whether it be the benching, the technical in the NC State game, or the general inconsistency. I'd love to see it next season, because I think he's in danger of losing time to Trawick and Rivera - who I think probably are more talented at a single end of the court than Markel (Trawick on defense, Rivera on offense). Where am I supposed to draw conclusions on his leadership abilities from? GUSA ads?
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Apr 23, 2012 13:53:24 GMT -5
I don't know if Markel is going to be the team leader or not. But you have taken one incident, which the coach handled and the player seemed to have responded to with maturity, and have drawn a conclusion about the player, his leadership ability, and (at least seemingly) his character. Nice work. I would say more but I would be getting in to ad hominem territory, so I'll just leave it at that. Look, the title of the thread is "Markel will be the leader of next year's team". Not "a leader", but "the leader". Personally I feel like the leader is going to be Otto, and ought to be Otto. I don't see the maturity out of Markel that you guys do, whether it be the benching, the technical in the NC State game, or the general inconsistency. I'd love to see it next season, because I think he's in danger of losing time to Trawick and Rivera - who I think probably are more talented at a single end of the court than Markel (Trawick on defense, Rivera on offense). Where am I supposed to draw conclusions on his leadership abilities from? GUSA ads? He's by far the most vocal player we have. He's constantly communicating on the court, bringing together huddles, and cheering when he's on the bench. He seems to get along with everyone on the team, and since he's one of the elder members of the team next year, he will be the leader. Leadership isn't about being the best player on the court. In fact, its barely about talent at all. Otto, while an incredible player, doesn't strike me as the vocal type, especially as an underclassman. Markel seems like a glue guy to me, and I think this team will need him to take the reins next year.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 23, 2012 15:45:57 GMT -5
Look, the title of the thread is "Markel will be the leader of next year's team". Not "a leader", but "the leader". Personally I feel like the leader is going to be Otto, and ought to be Otto. I don't see the maturity out of Markel that you guys do, whether it be the benching, the technical in the NC State game, or the general inconsistency. I'd love to see it next season, because I think he's in danger of losing time to Trawick and Rivera - who I think probably are more talented at a single end of the court than Markel (Trawick on defense, Rivera on offense). Where am I supposed to draw conclusions on his leadership abilities from? GUSA ads? He's by far the most vocal player we have. He's constantly communicating on the court, bringing together huddles, and cheering when he's on the bench. He seems to get along with everyone on the team, and since he's one of the elder members of the team next year, he will be the leader. Leadership isn't about being the best player on the court. In fact, its barely about talent at all. Otto, while an incredible player, doesn't strike me as the vocal type, especially as an underclassman. Markel seems like a glue guy to me, and I think this team will need him to take the reins next year. Metta World Peace is very vocal, communicates on the court, and cheers on people from the bench.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 23, 2012 16:05:42 GMT -5
Metta World Peace is very vocal, communicates on the court, and cheers on people from the bench. When hes allowed to stay on the bench
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Post by bicentennial on Apr 23, 2012 20:15:36 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2012 22:01:17 GMT -5
Look, the title of the thread is "Markel will be the leader of next year's team". Not "a leader", but "the leader". Personally I feel like the leader is going to be Otto, and ought to be Otto. I don't see the maturity out of Markel that you guys do, whether it be the benching, the technical in the NC State game, or the general inconsistency. I'd love to see it next season, because I think he's in danger of losing time to Trawick and Rivera - who I think probably are more talented at a single end of the court than Markel (Trawick on defense, Rivera on offense). Where am I supposed to draw conclusions on his leadership abilities from? GUSA ads? He's by far the most vocal player we have. He's constantly communicating on the court, bringing together huddles, and cheering when he's on the bench. He seems to get along with everyone on the team, and since he's one of the elder members of the team next year, he will be the leader. Leadership isn't about being the best player on the court. In fact, its barely about talent at all. Otto, while an incredible player, doesn't strike me as the vocal type, especially as an underclassman. Markel seems like a glue guy to me, and I think this team will need him to take the reins next year. Well then I guess Ryan Dougherty was the leader of those Hoyas teams.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Apr 23, 2012 22:37:57 GMT -5
He's by far the most vocal player we have. He's constantly communicating on the court, bringing together huddles, and cheering when he's on the bench. He seems to get along with everyone on the team, and since he's one of the elder members of the team next year, he will be the leader. Leadership isn't about being the best player on the court. In fact, its barely about talent at all. Otto, while an incredible player, doesn't strike me as the vocal type, especially as an underclassman. Markel seems like a glue guy to me, and I think this team will need him to take the reins next year. Well then I guess Ryan Dougherty was the leader of those Hoyas teams. That's funny and all, but JT III credited Dougherty as a a leader of the team multiple times during his senior season. Pretty sure he was a captain too.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Apr 24, 2012 2:04:09 GMT -5
Will there be a leader on next year's team? That is the question. Markel is in a good position for it but I don't know enough about off court things to say. On the court I don't see anyone being the lead candidate.
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royski
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Post by royski on Apr 24, 2012 3:07:03 GMT -5
Otto Porter is going to lead this team, offensively and defensively, next year. I'm very confident in this. Markel could certainly develop into another source of leadership on the team, but if we're discussing "the leader", it's Otto. This isn't just because he's the best player on the team, it's the way he carries himself, the way he plays defense, the brilliance within the system, the rebounding that inspires players to raise their game a little bit. It's no mistake that last year's team was at its best when Otto was playing a big role. Just my 2 cents, didn't mean to hijack a Markel thread.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 24, 2012 10:17:33 GMT -5
Markel will be the Fire and Otto will be the Ice. Hoya Saxa.
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