|
Post by daymondmyles on Apr 18, 2012 16:47:57 GMT -5
To be fair, we didn't even really contact Upshaw after he re-opened which says to me that the staff isn't desparate at least. And we haven't offered Hayes yet.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
Member is Online
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 18, 2012 16:49:33 GMT -5
While Kenner is entertaining, I'd be careful about drawing too many conclusions about how well kids will play in games based on play in Kenner.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,352
|
Post by hoyaboya on Apr 18, 2012 16:55:50 GMT -5
To be fair, we didn't even really contact Upshaw after he re-opened which says to me that the staff isn't desparate at least. And we haven't offered Hayes yet. According to the ZagsBlog article, we have, in fact, offered Hayes: "Basically, it’s UConn, Georgetown, Florida and Texas A&M,” Todd Washington, a family friend and founder of the Puerto Rico Playmakers, told SNY.tv. Florida is the only school that has yet to offer a scholarship."
|
|
|
Post by gtowndynasty on Apr 18, 2012 17:07:44 GMT -5
I don't see anyone "dismissing" Moses and Tyler, but at this point they are unknown quantities. Moses got virtually no PT as a frosh, and we have no way of knowing how much he has developed since then. Tyler was getting very limited minutes before he went out last season. We all have high hopes that one or both will give us strong contributions, but we certainly can'r guarantee it, so going after Hayes would seem to be a plus factor for the program. Not saying he comes in ahead of MA or TA, but there definitely appears to be potential there. Unknown to who? You maybe. But ive seen Moses play a fair amount and I'd like to think that I know what his talent level is. I'm counting on him because, honestly, I thought he might be further along than Henry last summer. Tyler Adams was a stud in HS and i watched him battle it out with Greg Monroe among others over the summer, and what I took away from that was a mental note of his talent level. Of course Kenner is not the best indicator of actual collegiate success, but for those who know anything about basketball it is a place where you go to evaluate talent. From that point, it becomes easier to project future roles. What I saw in Kenner last summer was consistent with what I saw during the season, and that is why I saw us as a top 20-15 team at least all the way back in July (believe it or not). My point is the OP was right, people are sleeping on our stable of bigs. We have a lot of somewhat unheralded talent in our frontcourt, and I would probably have each and every one of them over Hayes. Period. We're good to go as far as im concerned, time to reload. And where have you seen Moses play? i certainly havent seen him play in games that matter. Or are you extrapolating from Kenner, which is pickup basketball that resembles nothing like the way the Hoyas play or the competition Hoyas play against?
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 18, 2012 21:37:47 GMT -5
For those dismissing KL performances I will point out that what an incoming player does in the KL has historically been just as good, if not better, an indication of what he is capable of as anything he accomplished while in high school. In III's era alone at Georgetown we almost always knew who were going to be impact frosh or have impact seasons (improved seasons) based on what they did in the KL.
Jeff. Greg Monroe. Otto. Hoya fans knew those guys were going to be immediately ready to shine because they were standouts as incoming frosh when they played in the summer league. The only other player who starred as much as a frosh was arguably Jabril who had a solid season coming off the bench this past season but was nothing spectacular. But that was perhaps just as much a result of minutes.
We knew that Jon, Austin, Chris, DaJuan, Jason, Hollis and Greg Whittington were ready to be positive contributors from the start as a freshmen based upon how well they played in the KL leading up to their first school year.
Jesse Sapp was also solid during his first KL stint, especially compared to the other three freshmen that were entering GU with him. Two of those guys didn't have any particular success in the league and so maybe that explained why they rarely saw the court. Marc Egerson was pretty solid though, just like he was in his KL debut,
We knew that Roy had a good chance of being something much more than a project based upon some glimpses of ability and a display of fight during his play in the Kenner Leaguer leading up to his first year at Georgetown. Anyone paying attention during his breakout KL play just before his sophomore season knew he was about to make a major jump forward. And that is exactly what he did.
We knew Ewing Jr was going to be a major boost for the program because of how fantastic he was during the KL immediately after his transfer from Indiana. But because of NCAA rules we were just going to have to wait a year (he had to sit out) before he would prove it.
On the flip side we were a little underwhelmed with Vernon, didn't see much of anything in Jeremiah, weren't blown away in the least by Nikita, weren't too taken with Josh and Octavious, never saw much skill in Tyler's game (despite his successful high school career) and were scratching our head over Jerrelle Benimon's signing even more after observing him play for the Tombs. Plus there was that tall African player that came in the same class with Jeff and Jon whom some felt was much more likely to contribute than Roy. However all the reviews of that kid was negative for the few KL games he played in and it turned out he would barely see a minute of action when the real season started. He ended up transferring to American or some other lower tier DC school/program.
Of course there were a few examples of too high expectations based upon what happened during those summers. It looked as if Henry was on the verge of being a big time player heading into his soph season because of how great he looked in the Kenner League months before. And while the opinion of Nate's first summer performances were a tad mixed, a few on this board had him being all world and leaving for the NBA after his soph season because of how great he apparently looked in his first few outings with the Tombs. Hell, to be perfectly honest while two or three guys really liked how Henry played in the summer of 2011 most who observed him and Jason last summer did not seem to think the two were on their way to making All Big East teams based upon how they played last summer.
So, no, the Kenner League is not a perfect gauge in any way, but it still is a pretty good bet. At least it is for the players who are Hoyas. Mikael Hopkins had earned a bad rep for not being as competitive as he should 've been while at DeMatha. What convinced people however that he was ready to provide minute for the Hoyas in the rough and ragged Big East? The competitiveness he displayed on the Tombs while competing against pros. And who was looking like the best big man for the Hoyas that same summer before an injury took him down for the season? Moses. In fact when Moses went down the news spread like wildfire amongst Hoya fans through tweets and websites such as his and Casual Hoya. And everyone was disappointed because he was playing great and getting better every game out. Would that have translated to the real season? We'll never know but history would suggest the answer was "yes."
It amazes me how people keep putting down the KL as some league were glorified, street ball is played. Hey, Kenner isn't the Rucker League. There aren't any 165 to 154 games being played. The scores are low for summer league contests. They may not be "real" games but some real ball is being played nonetheless.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 18, 2012 22:25:02 GMT -5
I was just saying it seems like people are assuming Hayes is better than our current bigs. And would start over them. I don't think that is the case. Everyone always assumes the new toy is better than the old toy. Every year we state that Freshman will play over some veteran. More often than not the veteran plays more and is better.
We went after Noel. Of course you go after the #1 player in the Nation regardless of team need. It's questionable whether we went after Upshaw after his decommitment. Pollard is not really a post player so not relevant. It's also not clear how strongly we're pursuing this kid. But you always sign talent if you think it will make the team better. I just don't think the staff thinks there are guards out there that would help next years team. Or at least none have publicly been mentioned. Which obviously doesn't mean they haven't pursued people and we just have not heard of it.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 18, 2012 22:33:09 GMT -5
The Staff, however, has a much better feel for how much Moses and Tyler might contribute next year. Yep. And they've gone hard after Noel, Pollard and Hayes (and those are just the three that we know of) since the end of the season. Why wouldn't they go after guys like Noel and Pollard? Hello?
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 18, 2012 22:40:01 GMT -5
I'm not going to pretend to know if Hayes is any good or not, but I'm happy to see the staff going after a guy with his size and athleticism. I would much rather see too many bigs on the roster than too many guards. Why? If we get Hayes that would make SIX players that could play the center and/or power forward spots. How many times has III use that many true bigs? This past season he only used three which is about the norm for him. And, oh, those six I mentioned doesn't even include Otto who you know III is going to want to play some minutes at the PF position. That is overkill. It is one thing if this was Noel and he was a one-and-done or two years guy tops. But Hayes would be in school for probably four years. Where will the schollies come from in 2013? Also Hayes even admits his offense is really lacking which means he may be even behind where Moses was on O coming out of high school.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Apr 18, 2012 23:17:43 GMT -5
Florida has 1 scholarship left and Anthony Bennett says he wont decide until Mid May--most assume he's got Florida/Kentucky leading---so Hayes either waits for their offer/what Bennett does or he'll commit before then.
|
|
gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
|
Post by gujake on Apr 19, 2012 0:22:19 GMT -5
MCI,
We do have a bunch of bigs, but none of them are taller than 6'9" with the exception of Bolden, and he's probably the least likely person on the roster to contribute in the near future. There is a significant difference between having a 6'9" center and a 6'11" center. It's possible to succeed without a tall center, but it is harder.
And finding 6'11"+ guys is very difficult. Take a look at the Rivals 150 for 2013. There is only 1 guy listed who is Hayes' height, and there were only a handful of guys in the 2012 class. I'm all for taking a chance on a guy with his size and athleticism if the staff thinks he has talent - that is the kind of gamble that can pay off big time.
I think it's a good general recruiting philosophy to err on the side of bigs, especially at Georgetown since our offense runs through the big man. Small ball is not going to work here. Obviously, I agree that there needs to be some balance with the roster, and maybe we are getting close to going too far in one direction, but I'm pretty confident with Starks/Trawick/DSR as ballhandlers for the next couple years, and Whittington (and maybe Pollard?) will be getting some time at the 2 as well. I don't think we are so imbalanced that we need to save a scholarship for a guard right now.
|
|
gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
|
Post by gujake on Apr 19, 2012 1:35:19 GMT -5
I should add that I do think we should add a guard in 2013. I'm just not super worried about having a scholarship available to do that.
|
|
Ottomatic
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 378
|
Post by Ottomatic on Apr 19, 2012 7:08:53 GMT -5
How do you suggest adding a player we don't have a scholarship for?
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
Member is Online
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 19, 2012 7:51:17 GMT -5
This is big time basketball. If it comes down to a numbers crunch, someone will leave, either of their own accord, or not. That's just the reality of life.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,352
|
Post by hoyaboya on Apr 19, 2012 8:41:28 GMT -5
MCI, We do have a bunch of bigs, but none of them are taller than 6'9" with the exception of Bolden, and he's probably the least likely person on the roster to contribute in the near future. There is a significant difference between having a 6'9" center and a 6'11" center. It's possible to succeed without a tall center, but it is harder. And finding 6'11"+ guys is very difficult. Take a look at the Rivals 150 for 2013. There is only 1 guy listed who is Hayes' height, and there were only a handful of guys in the 2012 class. I'm all for taking a chance on a guy with his size and athleticism if the staff thinks he has talent - that is the kind of gamble that can pay off big time. I think it's a good general recruiting philosophy to err on the side of bigs, especially at Georgetown since our offense runs through the big man. Small ball is not going to work here. Obviously, I agree that there needs to be some balance with the roster, and maybe we are getting close to going too far in one direction, but I'm pretty confident with Starks/Trawick/DSR as ballhandlers for the next couple years, and Whittington (and maybe Pollard?) will be getting some time at the 2 as well. I don't think we are so imbalanced that we need to save a scholarship for a guard right now. Well-stated. And to MCI's posts, there's about a 39 page thread on Devonta Pollard, in which there are many thoughts expressed that he might play the 4. Which I believe is relevant to the coaching staff's interest in adding a "big" to the arsenal of unproven 6'8"-6'9" guys they currently have that could man the 4-5 positions. For those that are questioning the recruitment of Hayes, look at the other schools that are recruiting him (big time programs) and watch the video. There's a reason this guy is sought after. 6'11" highly athletic guys don't grow on trees. If they did, hopefully we would have already had one on the roster.
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on Apr 19, 2012 9:19:21 GMT -5
www.zagsblog.com/2012/04/19/bradley-hayes-meets-with-georgetown/Bradley Hayes met with Georgetown coach John Thompson III on Wednesday as part of his recruiting process and is considering the Hoyas along with UConn, Florida and Texas A&M.
“John Thompson made a really strong case for why Georgetown is the best place for BJ Hayes,†a source with knowledge of the meeting told SNY.tv. “JT3 didn’t try to sell him but rather explained why Georgetown is different and how they develop boys in to men both on and off the court. Roy Hibbert is a great example even though BJ is more Zo [Alonzo Mourning] then Roy.
“Coach Thompson couldn’t believe the potential this kid has. The kid has a chance to be really really special provided he works hard.â€
|
|
BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
|
Post by BigmanU on Apr 19, 2012 9:25:51 GMT -5
www.zagsblog.com/2012/04/19/bradley-hayes-meets-with-georgetown/Bradley Hayes met with Georgetown coach John Thompson III on Wednesday as part of his recruiting process and is considering the Hoyas along with UConn, Florida and Texas A&M.
“John Thompson made a really strong case for why Georgetown is the best place for BJ Hayes,†a source with knowledge of the meeting told SNY.tv. “JT3 didn’t try to sell him but rather explained why Georgetown is different and how they develop boys in to men both on and off the court. Roy Hibbert is a great example even though BJ is more Zo [Alonzo Mourning] then Roy.
“Coach Thompson couldn’t believe the potential this kid has. The kid has a chance to be really really special provided he works hard.†Thanks for posting that. I was wondering what happened yesterday.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,450
|
Post by TC on Apr 19, 2012 9:40:08 GMT -5
Oh man, ROFL at the crazy Zo comparison. I think what they're trying to say here is that this kid is extremely raw - like Hibbert was - and has somewhat of a power game (which Zo had), but he doesn't have Hibbert's soft hands or ability to shoot a jumpshot which Hibbert had even as a raw freshman. The part not mentioned is that this kid is nowhere comparable to Alonzo Mourning defensively.
|
|
idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
|
Post by idhoya on Apr 19, 2012 10:52:25 GMT -5
the kid says he can hit a 15-footer.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 19, 2012 10:55:34 GMT -5
the kid says he can hit a 15-footer. Every kid says he can hit a 15-footer!
|
|
|
Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 19, 2012 10:56:52 GMT -5
While Kenner is entertaining, I'd be careful about drawing too many conclusions about how well kids will play in games based on play in Kenner. You either know how to watch and evaluate talent, or you dont.
|
|