Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 12, 2012 11:29:51 GMT -5
I miss Dan Aykroyd!
;D
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 12, 2012 16:53:34 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly that the personal attack was out of line. however, it is readily apparent to me that she wllingly, with her agenda in mind, thrust herself into this spotlight. Not because she was beng denied a necessity, but because she wanted to make political hay.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 12, 2012 18:49:42 GMT -5
Sandra Fluke (a perfect surname by the way) is a bought and paid for creation of the Democrat fringe. A central casting phony activist. As an aside, I personaly believe everyone (and most especially Democrat activists) should be provided with all the contraception they need. But I can't think of any good counter to the points that: (a) Georgetown seems to be offering female students needlessly limited insurance options and with no principled reason for doing so (if there were a principled reason, then employees wouldn't get broader options), A counter is that Georgetown, to be consistent with Catholic teaching, should not offer such insurance to employees.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 12, 2012 19:20:42 GMT -5
Please encourage Republicans to keep talking about this all the way to November.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 13, 2012 19:46:22 GMT -5
But I can't think of any good counter to the points that: (a) Georgetown seems to be offering female students needlessly limited insurance options and with no principled reason for doing so (if there were a principled reason, then employees wouldn't get broader options), A counter is that Georgetown, to be consistent with Catholic teaching, should not offer such insurance to employees. And back when I thought they didn't offer it to employees, I actually defended the student insurance policy to some friends. I was shocked when they corrected me on the employee policies, not because I have a problem with contraception (I don't at all), but because I can't fathom a more random, inconsistent line to draw than the University's in this case.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 13, 2012 21:11:19 GMT -5
And back when I thought they didn't offer it to employees, I actually defended the student insurance policy to some friends. I was shocked when they corrected me on the employee policies, not because I have a problem with contraception (I don't at all), but because I can't fathom a more random, inconsistent line to draw than the University's in this case. The problem though is that it isn't random. I think it's a clear tradeoff in values. Whoever makes this decision makes sure their peers and coworkers have access, but not the students. And Ed, disagreeing with what Georgetown's policy is now isn't a counter. I don't agree with the stance that it's a violation of religious freedom if an accountant at the law school gets contraceptive coverage - but at least the University would have a consistent policy and would be living the message they are preaching. What they are dishing out right now is a bunch of complete nonsense.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2012 10:16:30 GMT -5
Please encourage Republicans to keep talking about this all the way to November. While I wish both ends of the political spectrum would stop talking about this -- as it has virtually nothing to do with what I believe are the real problems our country faces -- I think you may be overestimating any benefit this is having for Democrats/liberals. If the topic is Rush Limbaugh, sure, he is a lightning rod. But now that the topic has gone away from him (for the most part) and back to the actual issue in question, most polls seem to indicate that the Democratic position isn't exactly a winning one. But whatever. The media will get tired of this before too much longer and pretty soon we'll be talking about where each party/candidate/elected official stands on ohhh, let's say, Magic Johnson.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 14, 2012 13:49:04 GMT -5
Please encourage Republicans to keep talking about this all the way to November. While I wish both ends of the political spectrum would stop talking about this -- as it has virtually nothing to do with what I believe are the real problems our country faces -- I think you may be overestimating any benefit this is having for Democrats/liberals. If the topic is Rush Limbaugh, sure, he is a lightning rod. But now that the topic has gone away from him (for the most part) and back to the actual issue in question, most polls seem to indicate that the Democratic position isn't exactly a winning one. But whatever. The media will get tired of this before too much longer and pretty soon we'll be talking about where each party/candidate/elected official stands on ohhh, let's say, Magic Johnson. Says the person without a uterus. Consider asking your wife/girlfriend/mother how she feels about some of this stuff.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Mar 14, 2012 14:03:27 GMT -5
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 14, 2012 14:18:42 GMT -5
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2012 14:22:31 GMT -5
Seriously? Quite possibly the stupidest argument out there. OHMYGOD, people are writing about an issue du jour on the internet!!!! But I shouldn't comment on it because I have man parts. But whatever. Go on thinking this is a winning issue for liberals if you want. And keep beating the drum that this is one of the important issues for this election. The numbers say you're wrong, but I won't stop you. PS - My mom, my sister, my aunt, two of my sisters-in-law and the woman I've been going out with recently (not quite a girlfriend) all think this is completely ridiculous. But they probably don't count, I guess. I do have one sister-in-law who feels differently. I guess she's the only one I should listen to.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 14, 2012 14:42:39 GMT -5
Seriously? Quite possibly the stupidest argument out there. OHMYGOD, people are writing about an issue du jour on the internet!!!! But I shouldn't comment on it because I have man parts. The "it doesn't matter to me so it shouldn't/won't be an issue in the election" is a position taken often on this board, and THAT is the stupidest argument out there. I said something similar when people said Keystone XL wouldn't be an election issue. This issue DOES matter to a lot of people, as evidenced by the documented increase in Obama's approval rating among women, and my anecdotal evidence has been the opposite of yours. I happened to walk through a fairly large rally here at the state capitol during lunch yesterday, so perhaps I'm overestimating how people feel based on my recent experiences. I am not saying that you can't comment on this issue due to your lack of female reproductive parts. I am saying you can't dismiss it and call it unimportant. ON EDIT: Also, it's interesting that this issue is so ridiculous and unimportant that you have discussed it with at least seven different women.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2012 14:50:01 GMT -5
But I absolutely can. Tell you what. As opposed to taking a snapshot RIGHT NOW AT THIS EXACT MOMENT and extrapolating that to the entire election season, let's give this some time. Over the next several months, there are bound to be numerous polls asking people what are the most important issues in this election. If this issue consistently ranks in the top 3-5, I will issue an abject apology to you any anyone else who wants one. If, as I suspect, this issue will struggle to maintain top 5-10 status and will poll regularly in the single digits, then you can refer to me as "Lord and Master" from here on out. What do you say? EDIT: Sorry, I think I misread you. I think you were saying it is important even if it is not an important election issue. That's probably true...for some people. But since I was discussing this originally in terms of the election, I'm referring to it in that context.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 14, 2012 14:59:14 GMT -5
But I absolutely can. Tell you what. As opposed to taking a snapshot RIGHT NOW AT THIS EXACT MOMENT and extrapolating that to the entire election season, let's give this some time. Over the next several months, there are bound to be numerous polls asking people what are the most important issues in this election. If this issue consistently ranks in the top 3-5, I will issue an abject apology to you any anyone else who wants one. If, as I suspect, this issue will struggle to maintain top 5-10 status and will poll regularly in the single digits, then you can refer to me as "Lord and Master" from here on out. What do you say? EDIT: Sorry, I think I misread you. I think you were saying it is important even if it is not an important election issue. That's probably true...for some people. But since I was discussing this originally in terms of the election, I'm referring to it in that context. The terms of that bet suck for me. This issue is not going to be important because if a majority of voters think it goes on the big board of things that need to improve. It's going to be important because it is an issue that could move some independent voters and moderate women away from the Republican party. It's not an important issue, it's an important wedge issue, and my bet is that there will be enough juice provided by state legislatures for the Dems to keep this issue active enough to matter.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2012 15:11:37 GMT -5
Well, I don't make bets that are not to my advantage. But let's review: For most of this discussion, I have remained silent, other than a few quips here and there, and to call Rush Limbaugh an idiot, but also to question why people aren't similarly outraged when conservative women are similarly insulted. I have remained silent because, IMO, this is not really all that important an issue, either for me or for many people I know. I decided to chime in more substantively when the discussion wandered from the original question and when people started intimating that this was going to damage the Republicans. I disagree with that, and I think there is ample data to back that up. I also happen to disagree that this will be an important issue, wedge or otherwise in the upcoming election. Over time, I think there will be ample data to back that up as well. If this is an important issue to anyone here personally, I am not here to dismiss that or dismiss you. I am simply disputing what many on the board seem to consider conventional wisdom, from a political perspective. And with that, I will in fact, shut up because I have spent more time thinking about this issue today than I have collectively over the past few weeks. I am now going back to not thinking about it, most likely because having a Edited is distracting me (story of my life, that).
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 14, 2012 15:46:08 GMT -5
Well, I don't make bets that are not to my advantage. But let's review: For most of this discussion, I have remained silent, other than a few quips here and there, and to call Rush Limbaugh an idiot, but also to question why people aren't similarly outraged when conservative women are similarly insulted. I have remained silent because, IMO, this is not really all that important an issue, either for me or for many people I know. I decided to chime in more substantively when the discussion wandered from the original question and when people started intimating that this was going to damage the Republicans. I disagree with that, and I think there is ample data to back that up. I also happen to disagree that this will be an important issue, wedge or otherwise in the upcoming election. Over time, I think there will be ample data to back that up as well. If this is an important issue to anyone here personally, I am not here to dismiss that or dismiss you. I am simply disputing what many on the board seem to consider conventional wisdom, from a political perspective. And with that, I will in fact, shut up because I have spent more time thinking about this issue today than I have collectively over the past few weeks. I am now going back to not thinking about it, most likely because having a Edited is distracting me (story of my life, that). Fair enough, and I may have misread your comments, or at least the tone of them (funny how that happens on the Internet). And FWIW, I don't think social issues should ever be at the forefront of a presidential campaign or decide the victor of an election, but I think a lot of folks disagree with me. I should also note that I live in a place where these issues are being widely discussed on a state political level, so my perspective on their importance (or lack thereof) may be somewhat skewed.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2012 15:51:56 GMT -5
I should also note that I live in a place where these issues are being widely discussed on a state political level, so my perspective on their importance (or lack thereof) may be somewhat skewed. What you should be doing right now where you live is trying to go to as many concerts as you can over the next week. Whether or not you need contraception while doing so, I leave that up to you. ;D
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 14, 2012 16:07:43 GMT -5
Says the person without a uterus. Really? REALLY? I assume someone who went to Georgetown could come up with something better than that.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 14, 2012 16:20:26 GMT -5
Says the person without a uterus. Really? REALLY? I assume someone who went to Georgetown could come up with something better than that. Sometimes people post things on the Internet that are intended to be over-the-top and trollish in order to elicit a response. Call it a moment of weakness. I am certain you have committed similar sins in the past. I should also note that I live in a place where these issues are being widely discussed on a state political level, so my perspective on their importance (or lack thereof) may be somewhat skewed. What you should be doing right now where you live is trying to go to as many concerts as you can over the next week. Whether or not you need contraception while doing so, I leave that up to you. ;D I'll be at the Fiona Apple show in a few hours (and then WATERS and then Bleached and then Yelle's DJ set and then Titus Andronicus). It's a good time of year, and I think I'm just cranky because I'm in the office this afternoon instead of drinking free beer and hearing live music.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 14, 2012 16:46:59 GMT -5
Really? REALLY? I assume someone who went to Georgetown could come up with something better than that. Sometimes people post things on the Internet that are intended to be over-the-top and trollish in order to elicit a response. Call it a moment of weakness. I am certain you have committed similar sins in the past. Sorry for assuming you were trying to be serious. (And yes, I have).
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