lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 10:38:59 GMT -5
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 29, 2012 10:38:59 GMT -5
henry did NOT have a,,,good game,, he had ten great minutes BUT NOT there the first 20 and not there last ten OF THE GAME i think he didnt get a basket then either.!!!! HENRY MUST BE MEAN FOR FORTY MINUTES... and he can be.... need that from him then nate backs him up on d ...and gets his passing back to snuff... NEED THAT TO BEAT UCONN AND THEIR BIGS .. neEd both to get on track... there are no other options.. here.... so it is what it is. NO MOSES.. NO TYLER.. YUP and... hopkins is good and will be very good... but just not quite ready yet ..GO HOYAS BEAT UCONN pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 14:18:24 GMT -5
Post by richfame on Jan 29, 2012 14:18:24 GMT -5
I thought Henry played a good second half. The first half was passive Henry settling for top of the key jumpers. Come second half i Saw him get more mean, play some back to the basket and impose himself.
Lubic, wow is getting slaughtered in this thread. He does seem lost at times. Yesterday I saw his head completely turned the wrong way and they dunked on us. Aweful. Lubic should certainly not start and should be a 15 minute per game guy, that i AGREE with. I just dont see the point of tearing him down. I think he gives effort and wants to play well. How can you argue with that? You should get on JT3 for starting him and playing him the amount of minutes he does. Dont get mad at Lubic cause hes not good. Get mad at 3 cause he stubborn and wont tweak the lineup..
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 14:23:03 GMT -5
Post by skyhoya on Jan 29, 2012 14:23:03 GMT -5
IIO is stubborn, finally agreed with me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 18:05:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 18:05:15 GMT -5
Markel Starks is a bigger concern than Lubick at this point to me.. Your starting PG should not be sitting down before the first media timeout because of stupid fouls every game.. He’s killing our versatility and making Clark log waaaay to many tough minutes. When I say “tough” I mean minutes when he has to be the only ball handler on the floor and chase guys like Gibbs around each night.
We need more from Markel point blank period. A PG is supposed to be a leader and you can’t lead a team from the bench. He needs to play smarter
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 23:45:16 GMT -5
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2012 23:45:16 GMT -5
I realize it's textbook coaching that you sit a guy with two fouls, but maybe that's something that should be revisted. You sit Starks so he doesn't pick up a third foul, so instead he sits on the bench and we don't get him to play.
What good is "saving" him from fouling out if he's not going to play anyway?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 0:40:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 0:40:26 GMT -5
I realize it's textbook coaching that you sit a guy with two fouls, but maybe that's something that should be revisted. You sit Starks so he doesn't pick up a third foul, so instead he sits on the bench and we don't get him to play. What good is "saving" him from fouling out if he's not going to play anyway? I imagine so you have late game options as he is our best ball handler and a pretty descent free throw shooter. I hear you though, but the thing is it shouldn’t even come down to that. Have you ever seen a guard who is that foul prone especially early in games? I know it has to frustrate him and coach.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 9:13:31 GMT -5
Post by Filo on Jan 30, 2012 9:13:31 GMT -5
No, the staff is stealing minutes from Otto....He needs to be on the floor 35 plus at this point. And Lubick right now is essentially worthless. So you want the frosh playing 35+ minutes a game right now? Well, that will be good for another crtitical thread down the road if we have a late-season collapse... JTIII's rotation was way too tight. How can you have anyone playing 35+ minutes a game? The grind of the season wore out Otto, he played too many minutes, and he just doesn't have his legs to finish out the season.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 9:23:02 GMT -5
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 30, 2012 9:23:02 GMT -5
riich game im henrys BIGGEST FAN but i do believe he didnt score a basket the last ten minutes he had ten minutes of second half playing really mean but NOT the first half nor the last ten crucial minutes of the game . now i may be wrong but vs uconn hes gotta play FORTY FULL OR MORE MINUTES OF MEAN. and nate has got to be TOUGH NATE TOO we aint got tyler or moses so THEY are the biginns and both need to be early season mean and tough IMO go hoyas beat uconn its february now for reall and this really counts yup
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 9:33:17 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 30, 2012 9:33:17 GMT -5
Unless we're going to give them all to Hopkins, we need Nate to give us productive minutes. The issue now is deciding between the following two scenarios:
1) Do what we've been doing all year. Start Nate and have him go against the other team's starting 4. He may struggle early because he's overmatched, but it allows us to bring in a fresh Otto 4-5 minutes in the game to either go against someone who's either been in the game already for 4-5 minutes and may be nearing a point where he needs a breather, or a backup. More than likely, Otto can exploit this matchup.
2) Start Otto and have him go against the other team's starting 3. Won't always be a slam dunk in terms of a favorable matchup on our end, but conversely, we'll be able to bring in Lubick at a point in the game where he's less likely to be outplayed by a backup.
Which is a better choice for us at this point? I still go back and forth on it myself. Falling behind early is a nasty habit we've gotten into, but I still think there are some obvious challenges to overcome in the event we do decide to start Otto in place of Nate.
Bottom line is, Nate has to play better. It means being able to recognize the other team's personnel when trying to defend the perimeter and not give up easy entries into the middle of the 2-3 zone and being caught out of position to recover. It means boxing out and giving us a more consistent rebounding presence. It means making assertive post moves toward the basket and taking good shots in the paint when they present themselves and avoiding shots 17 feet and out which just end up being empty possessions. And it means not forcing backdoor passes into traffic.
Nate's not the only one to need to do this. All of those things go for Henry as well.
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biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 671
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 9:53:54 GMT -5
Post by biggmanu on Jan 30, 2012 9:53:54 GMT -5
I agree with the overall sentiment here. What worries me the most is that the team becomes much softer without Nate on the boards and giving opposing big men easy buckets. (See last year's issues). Henry would be much more exposed for his soft D in the paint if it wasn't for Nate. Rather than bench Nate I think JT3 should instill confidence by giving him the ball early on offense against UConn and see if he can score a couple drop step lay-ins or possibly a dunk if its not asking too much. I think we need his energy early on to spark us until Otto-matic gets in the game. We need him. Don't bench him. Feed him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 11:24:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 11:24:08 GMT -5
Otto is 3rd on the team in minutes anyways.. Who cares who starts?? It’s about who finishes ask Jason Terry
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 11:25:14 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 30, 2012 11:25:14 GMT -5
Filo you can look back at all of my posts. Never once have I ever sang that song about JTIII....I don't care about class..I want the best players on the floor that will help us win, period
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 11:28:01 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 30, 2012 11:28:01 GMT -5
Otto is 3rd on the team in minutes anyways.. Who cares who starts?? It’s about who finishes ask Jason Terry When you fall behind every game, it matters who starts. Ask Jason Terry if having an 18 point lead to blow last night helped or not. Last game I can remember where we didn't fall behind early was Providence. That's a long time ago. I like the overall resiliency of this group to handle adversity, but you can't keep asking the guys to battle back from deficits every game and expect to win.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 11:59:25 GMT -5
Post by Filo on Jan 30, 2012 11:59:25 GMT -5
Filo you can look back at all of my posts. Never once have I ever sang that song about JTIII....I don't care about class..I want the best players on the floor that will help us win, period Sorry -- I wasn't clear -- never said you were that type of poster. I just think 35+ might be a bit high for a frosh, and you know there will be criticism from some if he looks tuckered out towards the end of the year. I do agree with the general point -- as Rockaway's most recent post points out, no matter how resilient this group is, they are not going to be able to keep digging out of the huge holes, especially as the competition gets tougher and tougher.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 12:11:32 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jan 30, 2012 12:11:32 GMT -5
Let me get this straight.
Our starters are: Jason Clark Hollis Thompson Henry Sims Markel Starks Nate Lubick
And we're blaming Nate Lubick for falling behind early in games??
Ummm, OK.
If you think starting Otto Porter is going to "fix it," I'm not sure you're really paying attention.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 13:04:23 GMT -5
Post by Filo on Jan 30, 2012 13:04:23 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. Our starters are: Jason Clark Hollis Thompson Henry Sims Markel Starks Nate Lubick And we're blaming Nate Lubick for falling behind early in games?? Ummm, OK. If you think starting Otto Porter is going to "fix it," I'm not sure you're really paying attention. Well, you obviously missed the Hoyatalk Conference at the beginning of the year, wherein the attendees elected Nate as the "pre-season scapegoat of the year." The vote wasn't even close, and almost tied the all-time record for margin of victory held by Jerelle Benimon during the 2009-2010 season. It easily surpassed the margin of victory recorded by Dajuan Summers for the 2008-2009, when Dajuan handily beat runners-up Omar Wattad and Nikita Mescheriakov.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 13:04:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 13:04:59 GMT -5
Otto is 3rd on the team in minutes anyways.. Who cares who starts?? It’s about who finishes ask Jason Terry When you fall behind every game, it matters who starts. Ask Jason Terry if having an 18 point lead to blow last night helped or not. Last game I can remember where we didn't fall behind early was Providence. That's a long time ago. I like the overall resiliency of this group to handle adversity, but you can't keep asking the guys to battle back from deficits every game and expect to win. Nate was not in the game when we got layup’d over and over in the first half to go down by 30,000. He’s being scapegoated a bit here IMO. The bigger question is why can’t Markel stay on the floor for more than 4 minutes without picking up 2 fouls? Asking Jason to run the point, be the primary ball handler and chase guys like Gibbs around all game is gonna wear him down,. We need better smarter play from Markel point blank period. Lastly I think our slow starts are more tied to the fact that the offense runs through Henry and he is a notorious slow starter. He seems to always have weak first halfs then he does the 85 Villanova Wildcat at halftime (joking) and comes out balling in the second. We need more of a 40 minute effort from him as well. Nate’s not the reason we can’t hit the side of a barn in the first half, everybody has to get better and focus in for 40 minutes..
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 13:15:13 GMT -5
Post by NTAMM on Jan 30, 2012 13:15:13 GMT -5
If Lubick played great, even good defense, the team would not need him to be a scorer. Go back and review the Pittsburgh game. There were at least five times when Lubick was late on defensive rotations – giving up 10 points. (I did not see the first five minutes of the game. But after reviewing the tape, I noticed he also missed a defensive assignment early in game that I had not seen.) It was on defense that Lubick was continually getting burned. At times he looked like a “deer in headlights” on the court. Additionally, you seem to be overlooking rebounding as a key part of playing defense. Lubick’s rebounding has been subpar for a starting power forward.
Lubick’s defense has not impeded easy baskets by these teams’ big men. Against teams with quality big forwards, GU has struggled – e.g., Kansas, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, and even the games GU won against Memphis and Alabama. (The same could be said against even talented, but lazy, low basketball IQ post players like Cincinnati’s Yancey Gates.) So the point that Lubick somehow improves the Hoya defense, when he is on the court, belies what we witness.
Again, JTIII has clearly moved on from giving Lubick starter minutes. The team has usually been better with Otto Porter on the court – even though he is not a power forward. The late, great John Wooden remarked that he would take speed and skill over size. This is what JTIII has chosen to do. However, he faces a dilemma against teams with long, athletic, physical, power forwards. The way to beat teams that rely on big physical players is to press and continually push the ball on offense. However, the team does not yet have the players to play that style of basketball. Starks does not really push the ball on offense. Clark does push the ball and attacks, but he seldom looks to be a distributor. Hollis’ handle is weak for a two-guard and he is more of a spot up shooter. Consequently, the Hoyas have to get much more out of Lubick when it comes to teams with good power forwards. As Hopkins appears not to be ready for major minutes, Lubick is the only other option.
Lubick is an important player. Basketball is a team sport. Every player must perform. But, no single player is responsible for win or loses. I root for Lubick to excel. However, one cannot minimize his lack of on-court performance. He possesses the skills to play much better.
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biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 671
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 13:18:33 GMT -5
Post by biggmanu on Jan 30, 2012 13:18:33 GMT -5
Lets all save our breath on Nate he's not the reason for our offensive slump. He's going to be starting Wednesday night whether you all like it or not. The real issue is how are we going to get Hollis the ball (consistently!) and to make sure Jason is also getting open looks from 3. That and playing a zone that their guards have trouble penetrating and at the same time doesn't give Drummond easy dunks. We need Nate for the latter, I think if Nate stays out of foul trouble and stays on the court we have a better chance of beating UConn. That and Clark, Hollis, Henry need to put up at least what they average. Also what happened to back door cuts?
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,926
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Nate
Jan 30, 2012 13:23:39 GMT -5
Post by NCHoya on Jan 30, 2012 13:23:39 GMT -5
The venom being aimed at Nate in this thread is ridiculous. The Hoyas a very good defensive team, I will that stats speak to that. We are coming off a very poor showing at both ends, but taking 5 minutes away from Nate is not fixing the outcome. Otto is a freshman, playing more than 30 minutes consitently seems counter-productive if you expect him to maintain his level of impact on the game. And count me in the camp that thinks Nate is probably our most physical frontcourt player and can surely handle the assignment of guarding an opposing big man better than our other options outside of Henry. I agree he has not gotten better than last year, looks slower and more tentative, but he is the only option we have. Sure, we could start Otto, but Nate is still going to get his 20 minutes a game.
I also do not agree we always start slowly, it typically is after the first timeout that we have our 5-7 minute span without a FG. Is that because of Nate? I would share the blame with a few other players not playing to their ability. Outside of a few freshman and Clark, everyone else is guilty of disappearing during games.
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