skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:07:02 GMT -5
Post by skyhoya on Jan 28, 2012 23:07:02 GMT -5
both are sophmores and starters, both have issues, but Otto isn't the solution, he already gets starter minutes.
The problem is the failed recruiting class of 2009 would be juniors now, but III didn't recruit the right players, except Hollywood.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,911
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:12:38 GMT -5
Post by EtomicB on Jan 28, 2012 23:12:38 GMT -5
Problem is, we're losing games by playing him starters minutes..this isn't December, when you could afford to tinker with lineups. I would shrink the rotation if it were me. Nate would play however many minutes it took to sub for Henry, and that would be it. Otto would play the 3 and the 4, Hollis the 2 and the 3, Whittington the 3 and Jabril...Nate would play 10 minutes max. Anything more, and we deserve what we get Daytona who would sub for Otto?
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:18:58 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 28, 2012 23:18:58 GMT -5
I would be good with Mikael, or going small with Greg and sliding Hollis over for 5-10 minutes...there are solutions
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,755
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:20:12 GMT -5
Post by blueandgray on Jan 28, 2012 23:20:12 GMT -5
Easy....Nate, Hop, Whitt. Its not that complicated folks...everyone is acting like Nate is the one guy who is indispensable,
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:25:00 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Jan 28, 2012 23:25:00 GMT -5
Easy....Nate, Hop, Whitt. Its not that complicated folks...everyone is acting like Nate is the one guy who is indispensable, Do you not even remember the West Virginia game. The only guy who could even remotely defend and hold position vs Istanbul and Kevin Jones was Nate. Porter could not hold his position vs Kevin Jones. Same thing with Kansas game. Nate was solid in boxing out and holding space vs Robinson. I'm not saying he was great but he's one of our only guys who can do it with Moses and Adams out. Drummond and Oriacki would have a field day backing down Porter and Whittington. Hopkins might be okay but he needs to get stronger and offensively he offers nothing at this point. Nate is 10th in the Big East in Assist/Turnover ratio.
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:28:03 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 28, 2012 23:28:03 GMT -5
Professor, c'mon you're reaching.
Kevin Jones and Robinson both destroyed us. Nate had zero impact on either of those guys.
Otto may not be able to guard them, but he's significantly more competitive than Nate, and he will also make Oriaki guard him on the other end. Nate gives us next to nothing. I don't see how he can be defended at this point
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:35:42 GMT -5
Post by Buckets on Jan 28, 2012 23:35:42 GMT -5
for those arguing that we have no one to fill nate's shoes....otto does probably everything better than nate, minus perhaps an assist a game. i much rather start a game with a line up of Henry, Otto, Hollis, Jason and Markel....and have Greg, Nate, and Jabril come off the bench. I also want to see Hopkins get more minutes. I like his activity, like his post defense, and think the kid has good upside. If Nate isn't stealing minutes from Otto, he certainly taking a few from Hop. Bottomline...its time to go with our best five. Then Markel needs to sit too. He's 50th in the Big East (and this includes Centers, Forwards and guard) in Assist/Turnover ratio at 1.0. statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/assist_turnover_ratio?conf=big-east&games=1It's amazing how much hate there is for Nate, but as soon as anyone criticizes Markel that's somehow being mean. Markel has some sort of board immunity. Since Louisville, he's 12/34 shooting, 11 rebounds, 11 assists, 13 turnovers, 22 fouls and he's averaging 22 minutes a game. You'd think a 6 foot guy with more assists than turnovers would draw some ire, but we've got people blaming his foul trouble for our offensive woes in the first half.
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:41:27 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Jan 28, 2012 23:41:27 GMT -5
Professor, c'mon you're reaching. Kevin Jones and Robinson both destroyed us. Nate had zero impact on either of those guys. Otto may not be able to guard them, but he's significantly more competitive than Nate, and he will also make Oriaki guard him on the other end. Nate gives us next to nothing. I don't see how he can be defended at this point Nate did okay when he was in there vs those guys. Otto could not deal with Jones width and strength. Otto's just not strong enough yet. Give him a year or two and he will be but it's not going to happen this year. Otto's a 3 and a 4 depending on the matchup but against a Drummond/Robinson/Kevin Jones/Istanbul you are going to need Nate's 5 fouls. Nate's a cog to the team, just like Markel this year. Almost everyone's a cog this year that has to be used depending on the matchup. Nate's been a disappointment for sure but him along with Sims are our only two facilitators right now. Clark is not a point guard (he doesn't pass the ball). I'm still not sold on Markel as a point. He did some good things but then did some bad things (like the drive into 3 people turnover and trying to shoot over a guy 7 inches taller than him). Actually in this game when all the freshmen came in and Lubick and Markel were out (I can't remember if Sims was out), that's when the offense stalled and they got the big lead. Now if we had Moses this year then I might be with you in saying have Moses eat up Nate's minutes till Nate can get his offense going, but we don't and as it is there are times when we need him. And Nate's not been getting that many minutes overall anyway. I think Nate and Markel have earned the right to at least start. Now you can sub them out like Boehiem did with Fab Melo last year. (Melo would always start but come out after 3 minutes. Other than that I think Nate's minutes have really been reduced especially during the last 10 minutes of close games.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,911
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:42:12 GMT -5
Post by EtomicB on Jan 28, 2012 23:42:12 GMT -5
I would be good with Mikael, or going small with Greg and sliding Hollis over for 5-10 minutes...there are solutions I figured you'd say that. Mikael doesn't have the skill set to play the 4 at this time, teams would sag off of him also. I'm glad JT3 has not played him there at all. If Whitt goes to the 4 his advantages of height/length go out the window. I"m all for Otto starting but playing him 35+ mins a game is not the answer in my opinion. I would sub Nate for him 4-5 mins per half. I'd give the other 8-10 mins that Nate plays a game to Mikeal as a sub for Henry. Time to see what Mikael can do with consistent playing time.
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:42:51 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 28, 2012 23:42:51 GMT -5
Not saying Markel is above reproach because he isn't. But at least he has shown significant flashes. Nate has shown nothing. I think Markel never recovered momentum from his concussion and I'm willing to give him a pass on that.
Nate has been brutal from word go. Also, I think Markel has improved since last season. I think Nate has significantly regressed since last year, almost like he spent the summer on the beach or something, rather than working on his game. Nate was athletic last year. Or at least he had lift. I remember the Villanova game from last season when he finished the game with a standing two-handed dunk and slapped the board with two hands.
I doubt he could do that now
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Nate
Jan 28, 2012 23:49:21 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Jan 28, 2012 23:49:21 GMT -5
. I think Nate has significantly regressed since last year, almost like he spent the summer on the beach or something, rather than working on his game. Nate was athletic last year. Or at least he had lift. I remember the Villanova game from last season when he finished the game with a standing two-handed dunk and slapped the board with two hands. I doubt he could do that now This has concerned me as well. He seems more slow and plodding this year compared to last year. Almost like his body aged from a 19 year old body to a 30 year old body in one year. (Kind of like Xavier McDaneil losing something like a foot off his vertical although that was over a 15 year period). Now maybe he gained too much weight in one year, maybe he's nursing a leg injury this year, or maybe he really did just age from freshman-sophmore year.
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:00:59 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 29, 2012 0:00:59 GMT -5
More than the athleticism is the regression in his game. I really thought he would develop a go-to move in the post, a jump-hook, a drop step or something. But he hasn't done anything better than last season. And his passing is way overrated, because for every assist, he throws a stupid pass trying to thread the needle to a cutter that ends up being a turnover.
I hope he starts to improve. That's all I can say
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:10:02 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Jan 29, 2012 0:10:02 GMT -5
More than the athleticism is the regression in his game. I really thought he would develop a go-to move in the post, a jump-hook, a drop step or something. But he hasn't done anything better than last season. And his passing is way overrated, because for every assist, he throws a stupid pass trying to thread the needle to a cutter that ends up being a turnover. I hope he starts to improve. That's all I can say I would disagree about the passing. He's 10th in Assist to Turnover ratio in the Big East for all players. Sims makes some bad passes too but you know they are less magnified compared to Lubick since Lubick's on the hot seat. I don't have a problem with him not having a low post game really. His role seems to be to look for rebounds, box out and seal his man. You have to remember he was a guard before he had his growth spurt in high school so he's really a guard in a big man's body (like Porter but less skilled obviously) However, I am a little concerned in his outside shooting and just shooting stroke in general. His motion is awkward and lacks enough arc and I'm not sure if that can be corrected. Honestly if he could just consistently hit the wide open 3 along with his current game he would be fine. You see senior big men like that on Cornell, Princeton, Penn all the time and they kill teams in the tournament from 3.
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:14:27 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 29, 2012 0:14:27 GMT -5
Henry makes some dumb passes as well, trying to force the ball into cutters when it isn't there...that leads to some really bad turnovers
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:38:47 GMT -5
Post by Hoyaholic on Jan 29, 2012 0:38:47 GMT -5
Watch the last three games again. Nate is an absolute void on both ends of the court. His defensive lapses at the 5:00 mark killed the comeback.
He also had a reach-in under Pitt's basket that was beyond inexcusable (13:00 mark??).
Flat out, he stinks. His playing time is inexplicable, and it's reaching Nikita territory. At best he is the 9th best player on the team.
Listening to jackasses like Len Elmore describe him as a savvy, coach's son is insulting. He has a BB IQ of 0 right now.
Posting something like this breaks my heart, because I recognize he is a kid - and a Hoya - who is doing his best. But he is costing the team games.
Hear Hear to the poster that pointed out that he did nothing to improve his physical condition over the off season either.
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:45:10 GMT -5
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2012 0:45:10 GMT -5
Hoyaholic, I understand the frustration, but I just will not buy that a guy who was talented in high school and as a freshman has simply lost it in his sophomore year. There has to be something going on with Lubick and it's probably mental at this point.
Lubick clearly has more talent than Nikita ever had. The problem for Lubick is playing up to his potential. At this point, I'm not confident Lubick can get it together this year, but I sure hope he does.
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 0:46:28 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Jan 29, 2012 0:46:28 GMT -5
Watch the last three games again. Nate is an absolute void on both ends of the court. His defensive lapses at the 5:00 mark killed the comeback. He also had a reach-in under Pitt's basket that was beyond inexcusable (13:00 mark??). Flat out, he stinks. His playing time is inexplicable, and it's reaching Nikita territory. At best he is the 9th best player on the team. Listening to jackasses like Len Elmore describe him as a savvy, coach's son is insulting. He has a BB IQ of 0 right now. Posting something like this breaks my heart, because I recognize he is a kid - and a Hoya - who is doing his best. But he is costing the team games. Hear Hear to the poster that pointed out that he did nothing to improve his physical condition over the off season either. You make it sound like he was the reason we lost. And that's fiction. There was a complete breakdown by all players in this game and in this game it was the freshmen lineup who let us down and got us the big deficit (when Starks and Lubick were both out) unlike in other games. Sims was probably the only guy who had a decent game and that was in the 2nd half.
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 2:33:51 GMT -5
Post by NTAMM on Jan 29, 2012 2:33:51 GMT -5
Given the criticism the board gave to Jerrelle Benimon, it has been rather lenient in its treatment of Nate Lubick. Last season, Lubick was an upgrade over Benimon – but, not that much better than Benimon. At most, Lubick was the best of a number of poor options. Given that GU generally played “small ball,” running three and four guard sets, the Hoyas needed a physical, dominant rebounder, and defender. As last season progressed, it was clear that Lubick was not ready to take on that role. He was generally out of position for rebounding, he reached for rebounds rather than going strong to the board. Although he had an impressive physique, he lacked the strength to battle physical post players. On offense, Lubick was largely non-exist. He had no post moves, did not drive to the basket, and his jump shot was continually missing. With Lubick, Vaughan, and Starks on the floor and Wright injured, on offense, the Hoyas were generally reduced to playing one on five or two on five. Freeman and sometimes Thompson were the main threats to score.
Realistically, Lubick’s game has not improved since last season. The weaknesses in his game, that were exposed last season, still exist. He does not possess the game to be an offensive threat – as long as he plays power forward. He is a step or two slow on his defensive rotations. In the Pittsburgh game, there were at least five times Lubick was late on his defensive rotations – leading to 10 Pitt points. For a power forward, he is a poor rebounder. Lubick is 6’8”. However, he has relatively short arms. Therefore, he struggles against longer players, and players who are more physical. This will continue unless he becomes a rebounding demon. For all his alleged toughness, he looks lost on the court. Maybe Lubick felt he had to bulk up to play the four position. If so, the result has been that he has lost speed, quickness, and lift. He is playing no better than Benimon probably would have played.
GU surprising start this season has been the result of dramatic improvements in Sims’ game, continued improvement in Clark and Thompson, and the play of Porter. Lubick has been a disappointment. It is fairly clear that JTIII has already moved on from giving Lubick starter minutes. If Lubick is to become a major contributor to the Hoyas, he will have to reinvent his game. He is not a power forward at the Big East level.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 8:29:28 GMT -5
Post by skyhoya on Jan 29, 2012 8:29:28 GMT -5
Henry had a good game relative to how the whole team played, that said everyone else had a terrible game.We just got out plaued and Jamie had his troops ready to eat our lunch,
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Nate
Jan 29, 2012 10:35:26 GMT -5
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 29, 2012 10:35:26 GMT -5
i do like nate i think the point is lack of depth at the really bigs on d and o too.. after henry and nate ... hopkins not really ready ..and moses and tyler OUT... so nate is the back up center on d ... thats the story he must continue to play hard ...otto adn greg aint big enough at the five... nope... so need to support nate.... and he needs to get confidence back ...which i thinks he will.... i agree he had been playing better til this game for the last four games or so.. go hoyas.. go nate ..NEED YOU BUDDY ..clas and tough kid toooooo ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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