|
|
Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 9, 2012 23:20:09 GMT -5
For as well as the execute on offence, we have some of the dumbest turnovers. Turnovers has killed us 2 games in a row. The last three season the collapse has been turnovers and careless play. If we don't correct the turnover situation we will see another Mid Season collapse and the Big East Prediction of 10 place come true.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 9, 2012 23:25:16 GMT -5
Just looked at the box Score. We had 17 turnovers to their 8. Jason and Henry had 9. Its not the young guys. Its the veteran that should know better and be patient and run the offence. We shot 59% from the field. 80 from the FT line and 60 % from 3pt. That's a stat line for winning a game. But damn 17 turnovers.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2012 23:28:19 GMT -5
The frustrating thing is that the turnovers are of all types, so that makes it harder to correct. Some lazy passes, some inattention, some horrible attempts to force the ball to cuttrs who aren't open - and we can count on 2 or 3 easy trunovers on inbounds plays every single game. Makes you wonder what we work on in practice. Or at least what the players pay attention to in practice.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 10, 2012 0:55:53 GMT -5
CORRECT ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPES OF TURNOVERS very correct need to FIX IT ;D
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 10, 2012 0:57:57 GMT -5
ME THINKS THAT WAS 60% FROM THE FOUL LINE AND THAT ALSO WAS KEY AGAIN they hit six of six down the stretch and we missed a couple of fronts of one and ones 59-56 hit foul shot different game NO 17 TURNOVERS different game WE SHOT 59% FG AND 60% FROM THREE yup foul shots and tos thats the story SO CLOSE had this game and gave it away imo  |
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Jan 10, 2012 1:23:37 GMT -5
This is when the lack of the program to recruit a dominant PG--a guy who is fast, athletic, and most of all--the ball is an extension of his hand shows up. Then again-it's hard to get a guy like that to Georgetown due to the type of offense they utilize--because ball isn't in PG's hands much once they cross halfcourt--so you just have to hope that your backcourt is efficient and protects ball, instead of worrying about them making plays.
Type of offense will always lead to some goofy turnovers due to the one handed pass. Nobody in their right mind coaches a 1 handed pass--it is frowned upon by majority of coaches-but encouraged in Princeton style--due to being "tricky". Unfortunately--it's also tricky for some of the reads and can lead to some mistakes.
Tough loss but really not surprising given style of teams they have lost to and ALWAYS lose to under III.
|
|
hoyas2006
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 377 
|
Post by hoyas2006 on Jan 10, 2012 8:36:46 GMT -5
the inbounds play from under our own basket is killing me. 2 turnovers/game from that spot. this MUST be fixed
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
|
Post by blueandgray on Jan 10, 2012 9:02:14 GMT -5
Henry sims has 88 rebounds and 44 turnovers...2 to 1 ratio. By comparison, Hollis has a 4 to 1 ratio and Otto has better than a 5 to 1 ratio. Defenses have adjusted to henry's early season success and henry is starting to look lost again. If you were to count his missed lay ups as turnovers...his ratio would be closer to 1 to 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2012 9:42:32 GMT -5
UNFORCED TURNOVERS!!! THIS IS WHEN YOU BEAT YOURSELF! NOT TAKING ANYTHING FROM THE BEARCATS!
|
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2012 9:43:12 GMT -5
The passes have to be unadvertised, ball fakes & no look passes...it's as simple as that!
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on Jan 10, 2012 9:50:23 GMT -5
Henry sims has 88 rebounds and 44 turnovers...2 to 1 ratio. By comparison, Hollis has a 4 to 1 ratio and Otto has better than a 5 to 1 ratio. Defenses have adjusted to henry's early season success and henry is starting to look lost again. If you were to count his missed lay ups as turnovers...his ratio would be closer to 1 to 1. I think there is a big difference between mistake-prone and "looking lost." Henry has to cut down on the unforced errors and missed layups, no question, but saying he's is looking lost is pure fiction. Mistakes or not, Henry Sims of this year still bears virtually no resemblance (in a good way) to the Henry Sims of previous seasons. But, having said that, I hope he is force-fed repeated viewings of the first Memphis game all week. |
|
|
|
Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 10, 2012 9:54:06 GMT -5
The passes have to be unadvertised, ball fakes & no look passes...it's as simple as that! Totally agree. It has nothing to do with bad recruiting or poor play on the defence. It has something to do that for whatever reason I guys are not taking care of the ball like they did when they was not ranked. I think we are reading the press clippings. We are as hungry as we was early in the season. ALL of out losses is due to UNFORCED TURNOVERS that lead to Fast break points by the other team. At half we had 12 turnovers that led to 13 pts. If I can read a box score I am sure the team can. 59 % from the field and you loose. The need to slow down be patient and play smart. Cut out all the behind the back passes, sloppy cross court passes, rushed post moves and play ball like they did early in the season. |
|
ScreamingHoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Ted Valentine: Getting it wrong since 1979.
Posts: 451
|
Post by ScreamingHoya on Jan 10, 2012 12:41:57 GMT -5
Henry sims has 88 rebounds and 44 turnovers...2 to 1 ratio. By comparison, Hollis has a 4 to 1 ratio and Otto has better than a 5 to 1 ratio. Defenses have adjusted to henry's early season success and henry is starting to look lost again. If you were to count his missed lay ups as turnovers...his ratio would be closer to 1 to 1. I think there is a big difference between mistake-prone and "looking lost." Henry has to cut down on the unforced errors and missed layups, no question, but saying he's is looking lost is pure fiction. Mistakes or not, Henry Sims of this year still bears virtually no resemblance (in a good way) to the Henry Sims of previous seasons. But, having said that, I hope he is force-fed repeated viewings of the first Memphis game all week. With regards to "looking lost" I think generally the entire team looks lost or nobody does, and it's a game by game thing. Prior to WVU, there were very few of those moments. But in the last two games, nothing is flowing- guys either aren't cutting or passers aren't finding their cutters. So we end up getting lost in the offense and turn the ball over or make incredibly ill advised shots. Prior to WVU, I don't think there was a game this season where we were down or tied and I didn't think that we were going to win. The last two games, and especially last night, we had chances in the final couple minutes to pull it out, and I was convinced we weren't going to do it because of the way we had been looking. Am I alone here? |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 10, 2012 13:06:31 GMT -5
The last two games, and especially last night, we had chances in the final couple minutes to pull it out, and I was convinced we weren't going to do it because of the way we had been looking. Am I alone here? No, I felt the same. More on the defensive end. We just couldn't seem to stop them from scoring (either with 3s or by driving into the lane) and that was problematic. I think part of the problem also with turnovers is that once we get into Big East play you have teams that have seen the backdoor cuts and Princeton now for over 4-5 years. So these teams are much better prepared for us than the out of conference teams and those same backdoor cut passes becomes "lazy" turnovers. Theoretically this should be an advantage for us when we go back out of conference during the NCAA tournament but unfortunately that hasn't worked out as of late. |
|
swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
|
Post by swhoya on Jan 10, 2012 13:09:08 GMT -5
The last two games, and especially last night, we had chances in the final couple minutes to pull it out, and I was convinced we weren't going to do it because of the way we had been looking. Am I alone here? No, I felt the same. More on the defensive end. We just couldn't seem to stop them from scoring (either with 3s or by driving into the lane) and that was problematic. I think part of the problem also with turnovers is that once we get into Big East play you have teams that have seen the backdoor cuts and Princeton now for over 4-5 years. So these teams are much better prepared for us than the out of conference teams and those same backdoor cut passes becomes "lazy" turnovers. Theoretically this should be an advantage for us when we go back out of conference during the NCAA tournament but unfortunately that hasn't worked out as of late. This was best illustrated by our last full possession. We miss a shot but get the ball back, and the shot clock is winding down, and we seems to have ZERO sense of urgency. We're down a shot, and no one seems interested in attacking. Just baffling to me. |
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2012 13:46:14 GMT -5
Theoretically this should be an advantage for us when we go back out of conference during the NCAA tournament but unfortunately that hasn't worked out as of late. Yes, the problem for us there is that the first round opponent's head coach has three/four days to prepare for our game and study tape of how the BE teams played and beat us. Of course, they will need the players to carry out the plan, but the blueprint is there. |
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,485
Member is Online
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 10, 2012 14:06:30 GMT -5
I thought if we shot as well as we did last night, we would win. But no. That 19-8 ratio of TOs just killed us. In the BE you have to do everything well.
|
|
OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
|
Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 10, 2012 18:19:11 GMT -5
Of the 17 turnovers 9 were from the two seniors on the team Sims(5) and Clark(4). Sims were more understandable as bad reads on whether a backdoor cut was open. Clark's TOs were more problematic in that they were loose passes that were telegrammed. Unfortunately this did not start this year, he had the same problem the last two years. His propensity to throw weak lob passes when inbounding the ball or attempting to break press is perplexing for a senior.
|
|
swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
|
Post by swhoya on Jan 10, 2012 20:14:03 GMT -5
I don't disagree with points made about turnovers, this not being JTIII's finest coaching job, and what this ultimately means for our team.
I do think though that we tend to lose sight of the fact that these are still amateur athletes with a heck of a lot of other stuff going on. Bad days will happen for individual players, and bad days will happen for us as a team. The very best NBA players and teams have off nights. Sometimes they have several bad nights in a row.
The problem with the college game is its all so amplified. You lose a few games that you shouldn't have in the NBA, no big deal. You have 178 other games. Slight exaggeration, but the point is the same. Obviously the difference between the NBA and college becomes even greater come tournament time in college, as we know all too well from Ohio, Davidson, and so on.
We may not be a top 10 team. No one thought we were going to be prior to the season (if you did...you're a liar). We've had a couple of frustrating games, but on the whole, I'm happy with this team so far. If it all gets turned on its head and we find ourselves at the bottom of the Big East, I'll probably feel differently. But right now, this team has faced some pretty good teams and won. Not to mention how they've handled themselves in some pretty ugly situations.
Right now it's halftime between Louisville and Providence, and Providence is SPANKING L'ville. Good teams have bad nights. Let's wait until we have a larger sample to see where this team really stands and just how good they'll be. In the meantime, I'm happy.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Jan 10, 2012 21:04:29 GMT -5
There is no doubt the offense plays a role in our propensity to turn the ball over. The same offense that is one of the most deadly in the NCAA (who else is going to shoot 50+% against Cincy this season?) also is very high risk. The passes we ask our players to make are not the basic bounce and chest passes. We ask them to read the defender and make a precise pass that leads to a lay-up and/or open three. No doubt the more thinking we do the worse we play.
One thing we do horribly is receive the ball correctly. III even mentioned this in his postgame quotes. You have to attack the ball when it is thrown to you. The hoyas do not. Some of that is the offense, the player is in motion toward the basket away from the ball but some of that is a product of the methodical (some would say lackadaisical) approach we show to the "easy" things. We have seen it for 8 years under Thompson, about 70% of the time the high FG% and our defense outweighs the TOs and lack of rebounding (however, the boards are currently being fixed with recent recruits).
|
|
