Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 5, 2014 14:18:45 GMT -5
You drew a lot of conclusions from one or two sentences that you shouldn’t have lol As if... I never said Reggie couldn’t play or Josh couldn’t play I was commenting on them playing together and there’s a huge difference… Can you understand that that or is that too much for your rude arse to fathom? This is the reason coaches do offense/defense substitutions maybe? or mix and match their line-ups? I mean it’s not like this is some wild philosophy most coaches do it, and if Josh figures to play between 20-30 and Reggie 15-20 how hard is that to do? No, you were commenting on their past body of work as if it's indicative of what's gonna happen in the future. Yes we have a relatively complicated defensive scheme, that's really not debatable. It's not the rotation that's the hard part, but more the communication and defensive chemistry needed to perform at a high level. And I'm not reading into anything if it's what your words actually represent. You don't have to detail every little bit of your thoughts to show what you may be thinking... Haha but I'm the one that's rude, great. Anyone who disagrees with your simple, limit-placing analysis must be a bad person huh? Or wait, I guess you can't "read in" to my post enough to realize that I already addressed the issue of them playing together, as well as individually, in detail. Don't worry I don't have to comment on your inability to comprehend analysis to make my point. But maybe that's the only way your mind can process discussion. Really, Rock? Your diatribe and insults are all being drawn from this post: I guess we will find out come Nov/Dec but Cameron and Josh Smith defensively? ? Got to think after struggling through a season where we couldn’t stop anyone from scoring that he would limit minutes for more talented and versatile players... because? Couldn't be more clear that he was expressing concern about the defense when Smith and Cameron are on the floor together. You're just making %%#^%$#&! up to keep something going that wasn't there in the first place. I think it's time YOU give it a rest.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 5, 2014 14:31:56 GMT -5
What we don’t need time to determine is that DFW has it in for Peak. Twice before in this thread he has posted some unusual putdowns of the guy when fans had the audacity to be excited over Peak’s arrival. My unusual take: if Peak is playing the 2, he'd better come with defense, because that's what JT III (and his predecessors) have always stressed. I think he can, but the implicit trade-off is that he's getting time ahead of Trawick, whose defensive skills have been proven in the system. In some ways, I see his time building as did Trawick, who averaged 11 min a game as a freshman, then jumped to 26 min. as a sophomore. A similar argument could be made for Campbell, but the fan fervor isn't as evident. Whether we like to admit it, freshmen take time to develop under JT III. Excepting Jon Wallace and Austin Freeman, nearly every GU guard has used his freshman season as an opportunity to grow and develop and are not going to dominate the stat sheet. Only one freshman guard since 2004 has finished in the top four in annual scoring. Maybe that's not exciting enough for you, but this is the system and JT III won't be playing a 10 man rotation. If Peak is getting 10 minutes and six points a game, that's fine with me, "unusual" as it may be. DFW, your antagonism, for lack of a better word, towards Peak had more to do with your insistence that he wasn’t as good as people on the board were making him out to be. You had no more proof to make that argument than those who argued that Peak was going to be a star. So it came off as mere spite and a willingness on your part to rain on the parade of other people’s opinions and optimism simply because of some displeasure you had regarding Peak (which you exposed again by taking a shot at the “fan fervor” for Peak that is not exhibited for a guy like Campbell). And many of us objected to that attitude. If you now want to spin it and use a more reasonable argument in place of earlier rhetoric then so be it. Nonetheless this current argument is still flawed. First of all I don’t recall much HT talk over the last few months that Peak would supplant Trawick. Not many people are projecting Peak into the starting lineup even if they like his upside. Most see him coming off the bench. Do most of us envision him as being limited in his minutes his first season as Jabril? No. That’s because Jabril wasn’t even ranked in the top 100 coming out of high school. Meanwhile Peak was chosen for the Jordan Classic and has a much better rep coming out of high school than Trawick. Also Jason Clark was a far more proven player that Jabril had to play behind than Jabril is a player Peak has to play behind. As for learning to play defense before getting the time on the court I think some will argue that Jon Wallace and Austin Freeman and DSR never really did that, not to the extent that you seem to be suggesting at least. There are folks who were still unimpressed with Markel’s defense up to his final game. I’m not sure if III has had a lot of great defensive guards to make the point you are trying to make. It is not exactly that each freshman guard other than Jon or Austin used their first season as a time of learning and growth before they got an increase in minutes. It is more like those other guards, no matter their rep, had talented and more battle-tested guards ahead of them. That is why Jason Clark could not immediately jump into the starting lineup; it is why Sapp had to wait for Ashanti to graduate, it is why Markel had to sit and mostly watch Austin, Chris and Jason do their thing. Chis Wright probably would have started sooner rather than later if he hadn’t been inured for most of his freshman season. The only exception is DSR not starting as a freshman over Trawick, but III may have felt he needed some offensive firepower coming off the bench. And DSR basically got starter’s minutes anyway. But truthfully eve this angle of discussion is pointless because most here do think Peak is coming off the bench his first season anyway. So why are you getting all worked up over this? Finally if you think III will be playing Peak only ten minutes a game at least prepare yourself for the possibility of disappointment. Okay? And if III keeps recruiting the caliber of players and can’t find the time to play at least ten of them in a rotation, well, let’s just say if he won’t have to worry about finding time for them in the end because a few of them will likely pack up their things and transfer anyway. And I’m sure you’d have a lot of fun complaining about that if it occurs. III can get away with his short rotations when nearly half his roster is full of guys who were three star recruits. But when you have a roster in which all but maybe a couple of guys were four stars and above, you better get good at finding people minutes. He won’t be able to get away with playing, like last season, two guys at 35 minutes per game (which granted may have been done out of desperation). Not unless he wants to see a flood of transfer ala Maryland University.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 5, 2014 14:34:22 GMT -5
No, you were commenting on their past body of work as if it's indicative of what's gonna happen in the future. Yes we have a relatively complicated defensive scheme, that's really not debatable. It's not the rotation that's the hard part, but more the communication and defensive chemistry needed to perform at a high level. And I'm not reading into anything if it's what your words actually represent. You don't have to detail every little bit of your thoughts to show what you may be thinking... Haha but I'm the one that's rude, great. Anyone who disagrees with your simple, limit-placing analysis must be a bad person huh? Or wait, I guess you can't "read in" to my post enough to realize that I already addressed the issue of them playing together, as well as individually, in detail. Don't worry I don't have to comment on your inability to comprehend analysis to make my point. But maybe that's the only way your mind can process discussion. Really, Rock? Your diatribe and insults are all being drawn from this post: I guess we will find out come Nov/Dec but Cameron and Josh Smith defensively? ? Got to think after struggling through a season where we couldn’t stop anyone from scoring that he would limit minutes for more talented and versatile players... because? Couldn't be more clear that he was expressing concern about the defense when Smith and Cameron are on the floor together. You're just making %%#^%$#&! up to keep something going that wasn't there in the first place. I think it's time YOU give it a rest. Co-sign. It wasn't as if YaBoy had written anything that came across as rude.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 5, 2014 14:47:08 GMT -5
No, you were commenting on their past body of work as if it's indicative of what's gonna happen in the future. Yes we have a relatively complicated defensive scheme, that's really not debatable. It's not the rotation that's the hard part, but more the communication and defensive chemistry needed to perform at a high level. And I'm not reading into anything if it's what your words actually represent. You don't have to detail every little bit of your thoughts to show what you may be thinking... Haha but I'm the one that's rude, great. Anyone who disagrees with your simple, limit-placing analysis must be a bad person huh? Or wait, I guess you can't "read in" to my post enough to realize that I already addressed the issue of them playing together, as well as individually, in detail. Don't worry I don't have to comment on your inability to comprehend analysis to make my point. But maybe that's the only way your mind can process discussion. Really, Rock? Your diatribe and insults are all being drawn from this post: I guess we will find out come Nov/Dec but Cameron and Josh Smith defensively? ? Got to think after struggling through a season where we couldn’t stop anyone from scoring that he would limit minutes for more talented and versatile players... because? Couldn't be more clear that he was expressing concern about the defense when Smith and Cameron are on the floor together. You're just making %%#^%$#&! up to keep something going that wasn't there in the first place. I think it's time YOU give it a rest. Or you could just read my post where I addressed them both being on the floor at the same time. Or you could just continue to ignore it and continue to act butthurt and attack a poster on an anonymous message board instead of finding fault in the logic of the post. Your call.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 5, 2014 14:52:36 GMT -5
Really, Rock? Your diatribe and insults are all being drawn from this post: Couldn't be more clear that he was expressing concern about the defense when Smith and Cameron are on the floor together. You're just making %%#^%$#&! up to keep something going that wasn't there in the first place. I think it's time YOU give it a rest. Co-sign. It wasn't as if YaBoy had written anything that came across as rude. If responding with"give it a rest" after a post that seems partial and offers no basis for argument is really considered rude than I apologize. Sometimes I forget how sensitive this board gets. And to filo or whatever, how can I give it a rest if I'm only offering up one post in the last few months? I mean I understand feeling threatened, but jeez get a grip. This is a message board, anonymous at that. Grow up, stop holding grudges against people you don't even know, and have no clue about, formulate an argument pertinent to the discussion topic then get back to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 16:12:52 GMT -5
You drew a lot of conclusions from one or two sentences that you shouldn’t have lol As if... I never said Reggie couldn’t play or Josh couldn’t play I was commenting on them playing together and there’s a huge difference… Can you understand that that or is that too much for your rude arse to fathom? This is the reason coaches do offense/defense substitutions maybe? or mix and match their line-ups? I mean it’s not like this is some wild philosophy most coaches do it, and if Josh figures to play between 20-30 and Reggie 15-20 how hard is that to do? No, you were commenting on their past body of work as if it's indicative of what's gonna happen in the future. Yes we have a relatively complicated defensive scheme, that's really not debatable. It's not the rotation that's the hard part, but more the communication and defensive chemistry needed to perform at a high level. And I'm not reading into anything if it's what your words actually represent. You don't have to detail every little bit of your thoughts to show what you may be thinking... Haha but I'm the one that's rude, great. Anyone who disagrees with your simple, limit-placing analysis must be a bad person huh? Or wait, I guess you can't "read in" to my post enough to realize that I already addressed the issue of them playing together, as well as individually, in detail. Don't worry I don't have to comment on your inability to comprehend analysis to make my point. But maybe that's the only way your mind can process discussion. Except I just told you what I meant and it was nothing similar to what you wrote above…. Furthermore it was in response to this comment to put it into context which is about “lineups" So what are you talking about?
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 5, 2014 20:11:45 GMT -5
Ah, cat fights! Don't ya just love 'em? Especially in this dead period before Kenner.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 5, 2014 21:15:58 GMT -5
Can someone give us a brief summary what the fight is about? Please PM me too.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 5, 2014 21:51:59 GMT -5
Rock thinks Josh and Reggie is an OK combo defensively. YaBoy does not. I'm in the latter camp. As someone else mentioned, Reggie wasn't great (to be kind) at what he was supposed to be really good at last year and his defense was pretty poor. He did improve as the season went on and hedged a bit better to compensate for his lack of quickness. In fairness, Josh did to an extent as well. That said, those two on the floor for long stretches, IMO, is not a recipe for success on the defensive end of the floor. Rock then added that past performance is not indicative of future performance but, realistically, it's the best we have to go on as fans. Maybe rock knows some things that the run-of-the-mill fan doesn't but, unless Josh is going to be 300 lbs. or less and eligible to play in November, the necessity for help defense in the paint is going to be substantial. I hope that Reggie has been working on his shot and his lateral quickness and getting in better shape. That said, from what we've seen, he's a below average defender for his position and that's being kind. There's only so much help defense to go around. Even with limited options on offense and defense last year, there were games that Reggie didn't see the floor at all when we really could have used, at the least, a threat of offense from another player on the floor. He'd likely have gotten more time if his shot was falling but he would not have been on the floor for defense by any stretch of the imagination. I don't mean that as a knock on the kid. Every player has things they need to work on. Reggie was billed as a pure shooter that would likely be a bit of a defensive liability. The latter part was true. The former, hopefully, will be true too. He has an important role on this team and he has good length. Depending on what defense we're running, I could see short stretches where he and Josh are on the floor together but I doubt that will be option 1.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 5, 2014 21:58:45 GMT -5
With regard to another difference of opinion in this thread, I also don't get why DFW seems to take thinly-veiled shots at LJ. Maybe he knows something the rest of us seem not to know. It wasn't the scuffle at his school because it started well before that. In any case, why not give the kid a look before deciding he isn't more than a 10 minute player? To each their own I suppose but it seems pretty pessimistic even for a Georgetown fan. I hope LJ blows up and DFW eats some crow only for the reason that I hope LJ plays well enough to force coach's hand to give him more minutes. How great would it be if we had enough guys playing well that minutes were hard to find for all of the talented guys on the bench? Sounds like a GREAT problem to have that we haven't had in a bit.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 5, 2014 22:00:19 GMT -5
DFW, your antagonism, for lack of a better word, towards Peak had more to do with your insistence that he wasn’t as good as people on the board were making him out to be. You had no more proof to make that argument than those who argued that Peak was going to be a star. So it came off as mere spite and a willingness on your part to rain on the parade of other people’s opinions and optimism simply because of some displeasure you had regarding Peak (which you exposed again by taking a shot at the “fan fervor” for Peak that is not exhibited for a guy like Campbell). And many of us objected to that attitude. If you now want to spin it and use a more reasonable argument in place of earlier rhetoric then so be it. Nonetheless this current argument is still flawed. If Peak has a breakout year, good for him and good for Georgetown. The rest of this argument becomes largely unnecessary.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 5, 2014 22:13:13 GMT -5
DFW, your antagonism, for lack of a better word, towards Peak had more to do with your insistence that he wasn’t as good as people on the board were making him out to be. You had no more proof to make that argument than those who argued that Peak was going to be a star. So it came off as mere spite and a willingness on your part to rain on the parade of other people’s opinions and optimism simply because of some displeasure you had regarding Peak (which you exposed again by taking a shot at the “fan fervor” for Peak that is not exhibited for a guy like Campbell). And many of us objected to that attitude. If you now want to spin it and use a more reasonable argument in place of earlier rhetoric then so be it. Nonetheless this current argument is still flawed. If Peak has a breakout year, good for him and good for Georgetown. The rest of this argument becomes largely unnecessary. Considering the season hasn't started, I think MCI's entire argument is perfectly valid. For your part, DFW, you haven't mentioned that you know any more than any of the rest of us do with regard to LJ (or if you have, I missed it and apologize for having done so). We've likely all read his scouting reports and seen his game logs and watched his YouTube/BallIsLife vids. You're certainly entitled to believe that LJ won't be as good in his first season as some of us are hoping. To be honest, most of the guys aren't really ever as good as we "hope" they'll be. We're friggin' delusional. But surpassing typical expectations for a freshman is what I consider "rational" for myself with regard to LJ. Your opinion is clearly not the same and that's fine. But without explaining why, MCI has a point in mentioning that it just comes off as peeing in everyone's Kool-Aid.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 5, 2014 22:38:32 GMT -5
Rock thinks Josh and Reggie is an OK combo defensively. YaBoy does not. I'm in the latter camp. As someone else mentioned, Reggie wasn't great (to be kind) at what he was supposed to be really good at last year and his defense was pretty poor. He did improve as the season went on and hedged a bit better to compensate for his lack of quickness. In fairness, Josh did to an extent as well. That said, those two on the floor for long stretches, IMO, is not a recipe for success on the defensive end of the floor. Rock then added that past performance is not indicative of future performance but, realistically, it's the best we have to go on as fans. Maybe rock knows some things that the run-of-the-mill fan doesn't but, unless Josh is going to be 300 lbs. or less and eligible to play in November, the necessity for help defense in the paint is going to be substantial. I hope that Reggie has been working on his shot and his lateral quickness and getting in better shape. That said, from what we've seen, he's a below average defender for his position and that's being kind. There's only so much help defense to go around. Even with limited options on offense and defense last year, there were games that Reggie didn't see the floor at all when we really could have used, at the least, a threat of offense from another player on the floor. He'd likely have gotten more time if his shot was falling but he would not have been on the floor for defense by any stretch of the imagination. I don't mean that as a knock on the kid. Every player has things they need to work on. Reggie was billed as a pure shooter that would likely be a bit of a defensive liability. The latter part was true. The former, hopefully, will be true too. He has an important role on this team and he has good length. Depending on what defense we're running, I could see short stretches where he and Josh are on the floor together but I doubt that will be option 1. LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 5, 2014 22:45:51 GMT -5
Rock thinks Josh and Reggie is an OK combo defensively. YaBoy does not. I'm in the latter camp. As someone else mentioned, Reggie wasn't great (to be kind) at what he was supposed to be really good at last year and his defense was pretty poor. He did improve as the season went on and hedged a bit better to compensate for his lack of quickness. In fairness, Josh did to an extent as well. That said, those two on the floor for long stretches, IMO, is not a recipe for success on the defensive end of the floor. Rock then added that past performance is not indicative of future performance but, realistically, it's the best we have to go on as fans. Maybe rock knows some things that the run-of-the-mill fan doesn't but, unless Josh is going to be 300 lbs. or less and eligible to play in November, the necessity for help defense in the paint is going to be substantial. I hope that Reggie has been working on his shot and his lateral quickness and getting in better shape. That said, from what we've seen, he's a below average defender for his position and that's being kind. There's only so much help defense to go around. Even with limited options on offense and defense last year, there were games that Reggie didn't see the floor at all when we really could have used, at the least, a threat of offense from another player on the floor. He'd likely have gotten more time if his shot was falling but he would not have been on the floor for defense by any stretch of the imagination. I don't mean that as a knock on the kid. Every player has things they need to work on. Reggie was billed as a pure shooter that would likely be a bit of a defensive liability. The latter part was true. The former, hopefully, will be true too. He has an important role on this team and he has good length. Depending on what defense we're running, I could see short stretches where he and Josh are on the floor together but I doubt that will be option 1. LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy. MGS, I don't disagree with anything you said. However, imagine if rock ends up being right and Josh and Cameron both improve THAT much that they can be a viable option on the floor? I have zero expectation of that being the case but, if it were, that would mean that this squad is really, really good. EDIT: MGS, I was wrong.... I do disagree on one thing. Josh was really surprisingly agile at 350 (whatever his real weight was... 350 seemed a little low early and a little high late). I can't judge his quickness at all until I see him at fighting weight. At 300, he could surprise me as much with his speed as he did with his agility at 350. I only hope we all get to find out. If he comes in at 280, I'm throwing a party for any and all that want to come.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 4:06:05 GMT -5
If Peak has a breakout year, good for him and good for Georgetown. The rest of this argument becomes largely unnecessary. Considering the season hasn't started, I think MCI's entire argument is perfectly valid. For your part, DFW, you haven't mentioned that you know any more than any of the rest of us do with regard to LJ (or if you have, I missed it and apologize for having done so). We've likely all read his scouting reports and seen his game logs and watched his YouTube/BallIsLife vids. You're certainly entitled to believe that LJ won't be as good in his first season as some of us are hoping. To be honest, most of the guys aren't really ever as good as we "hope" they'll be. We're friggin' delusional. But surpassing typical expectations for a freshman is what I consider "rational" for myself with regard to LJ. Your opinion is clearly not the same and that's fine. But without explaining why, MCI has a point in mentioning that it just comes off as peeing in everyone's Kool-Aid. But then the same optimists crucify those same players after not playing like Greg or Otto in their first year, patience wears thin very quickly around here.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 4:19:08 GMT -5
Rock thinks Josh and Reggie is an OK combo defensively. YaBoy does not. I'm in the latter camp. As someone else mentioned, Reggie wasn't great (to be kind) at what he was supposed to be really good at last year and his defense was pretty poor. He did improve as the season went on and hedged a bit better to compensate for his lack of quickness. In fairness, Josh did to an extent as well. That said, those two on the floor for long stretches, IMO, is not a recipe for success on the defensive end of the floor. Rock then added that past performance is not indicative of future performance but, realistically, it's the best we have to go on as fans. Maybe rock knows some things that the run-of-the-mill fan doesn't but, unless Josh is going to be 300 lbs. or less and eligible to play in November, the necessity for help defense in the paint is going to be substantial. I hope that Reggie has been working on his shot and his lateral quickness and getting in better shape. That said, from what we've seen, he's a below average defender for his position and that's being kind. There's only so much help defense to go around. Even with limited options on offense and defense last year, there were games that Reggie didn't see the floor at all when we really could have used, at the least, a threat of offense from another player on the floor. He'd likely have gotten more time if his shot was falling but he would not have been on the floor for defense by any stretch of the imagination. I don't mean that as a knock on the kid. Every player has things they need to work on. Reggie was billed as a pure shooter that would likely be a bit of a defensive liability. The latter part was true. The former, hopefully, will be true too. He has an important role on this team and he has good length. Depending on what defense we're running, I could see short stretches where he and Josh are on the floor together but I doubt that will be option 1. LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy. I don't really care what you guys think, tbh. And I don't mean that from a rude place, but there are a large amount of fair weathers on this board that like to highlight deficiencies and criticize as many parts of a players game as possible, then when they start putting it together they act like they've been fans all along. To say Reggie was pretty bad at shooting is a bit much, you have to look at his shooting performances in context, and then if you're evaluating his potential impact next year based of his first year you have to take Into consideration the amount of minutes he actually played that season (not many) and realize how in-game reps can affect your development as a player. There's a bigger picture. Sorry I'm not sorry to want and write off two players after barely playing a year in our system, but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that players improve. Then the same group of posters rave about how good our player development can be....smh. And it's not like it's some big secret Josh has been slimming down, he has. God forbid I actually put my faith into III's plans to have him back over some random poster who doesn't know the difference between pure vert and leaping ability, or the poster that pretends to know what a player/person is capable of. I'd rather give our Hoyas the benefit of the doubt. Not every player is going to come out the gates hot, and it's okay if they don't. One year does not make a basketball career.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 6, 2014 6:57:20 GMT -5
Funny, not having read these posts yesterday, I had a conversation with a very knowledgable hoya fan independently regarding Cameron. His take is that Cameron will be a very good hoya when all is said and done and we both believe that he will benefit as much as anyone by having other offensive weapons on the floor with him. LY we were essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense and defenses cheated. He's going to get many more open looks this year and will be an important weapon for us.
Defensively, I have a feeling we will be playing a lot of zone this year with both white and copeland anchoring it. I don't see too many scenarios where Reggie and Josh share the floor, bit if they do it's likely when we are in a zone and not playing man to man.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 6, 2014 7:36:58 GMT -5
LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy. I don't really care what you guys think, tbh. And I don't mean that from a rude place, but there are a large amount of fair weathers on this board that like to highlight deficiencies and criticize as many parts of a players game as possible, then when they start putting it together they act like they've been fans all along. To say Reggie was pretty bad at shooting is a bit much, you have to look at his shooting performances in context, and then if you're evaluating his potential impact next year based of his first year you have to take Into consideration the amount of minutes he actually played that season (not many) and realize how in-game reps can affect your development as a player. There's a bigger picture. Sorry I'm not sorry to want and write off two players after barely playing a year in our system, but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that players improve. Then the same group of posters rave about how good our player development can be....smh. And it's not like it's some big secret Josh has been slimming down, he has. God forbid I actually put my faith into III's plans to have him back over some random poster who doesn't know the difference between pure vert and leaping ability, or the poster that pretends to know what a player/person is capable of. I'd rather give our Hoyas the benefit of the doubt. Not every player is going to come out the gates hot, and it's okay if they don't. One year does not make a basketball career. We must be comprehending the posts differently. I didn't read any post writing off either Reggie or Josh. I also didn't read where anyone said that Reggie won't be good. Only that, considering his performance last year, he needs to improve on D and hopefully gain confidence in his shot. The discussion has been whether having Reggie and Josh on the floor together is a good idea defensively. Judging by what we saw last year, it isn't. Having said that, no one said that the guys can't improve to where it's a more viable option but, again, from what we've seen so far, it's not an optimal lineup defensively.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 7:56:09 GMT -5
I don't really care what you guys think, tbh. And I don't mean that from a rude place, but there are a large amount of fair weathers on this board that like to highlight deficiencies and criticize as many parts of a players game as possible, then when they start putting it together they act like they've been fans all along. To say Reggie was pretty bad at shooting is a bit much, you have to look at his shooting performances in context, and then if you're evaluating his potential impact next year based of his first year you have to take Into consideration the amount of minutes he actually played that season (not many) and realize how in-game reps can affect your development as a player. There's a bigger picture. Sorry I'm not sorry to want and write off two players after barely playing a year in our system, but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that players improve. Then the same group of posters rave about how good our player development can be....smh. And it's not like it's some big secret Josh has been slimming down, he has. God forbid I actually put my faith into III's plans to have him back over some random poster who doesn't know the difference between pure vert and leaping ability, or the poster that pretends to know what a player/person is capable of. I'd rather give our Hoyas the benefit of the doubt. Not every player is going to come out the gates hot, and it's okay if they don't. One year does not make a basketball career. We must be comprehending the posts differently. I didn't read any post writing off either Reggie or Josh. I also didn't read where anyone said that Reggie won't be good. Only that, considering his performance last year, he needs to improve on D and hopefully gain confidence in his shot. The discussion has been whether having Reggie and Josh on the floor together is a good idea defensively. Judging by what we saw last year, it isn't. Having said that, no one said that the guys can't improve to where it's a more viable option but, again, from what we've seen so far, it's not an optimal lineup defensively. My point was that "what we've seen" is not necessarily indicative of what were gonna see next year. The basis for the argument was very weak, and it's not like a college basketball team has never won with two okay defenders on the court. Additionally, putting defensive players out there doesn't guarantee anything. Mikael is a great defender, and I'm his biggest fan, but does he really help us win that much more? Another point I was trying to make is that the op was not considering the trade-offs, particularly offensively, or having them on the court together. Double teams on Josh and attention to DSR will give Cam a lot of open looks. I see everyone jumping on me, but the post I responded to was responding to a post of a suggested lineup assuming the poster meant it was going to be set in stone, they would play extended minutes together, and went against III's philosophy. If I were a betting man I'd probably also believe that III will begin the season looking to the more experienced guys, integrating the frosh as time progresses. Also, all I responded was "give it a rest" because it's a fairly common argument that isn't really based off anything substantial. 13 games for Josh in which he showed noticeable improvement and limited minutes for Cameron. It's more reasonable to expect that they'll improve, defensively, rather than continue to get pt being liabilities on that end, IMO. As a coach, III has to at least give them the chance, and I'm sure he's not writing them off like many on this board.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 6, 2014 8:35:58 GMT -5
I think that our defense will almost certainly be better this year than last year, regardless of who plays. With Smith, it's really tough to say how he will be defensively until we get a real sense (maybe at Kenner) regarding whether he actually lost weight and seems more athletic. Even if Smith lost 50 pounds since he last played, it should increase his mobility substantially. Cameron's defense was an issue that JTIII highlighted last year even before the season began (JTIII said something like Cameron would play, but it was not clear who he would be able to guard).
Just remember that Otto Porter + last year's group was the second best defense nationally, and without Otto we were 107. The defensive rating got worse as the season went on, so it's hard to blame Smith for that.
My point is that if Copeland/White truly play significant minutes, I think that alone will improve our defense substantially and make everybody else seem better around them. If that happens, Smith's less than ideal defense and maybe even Cameron's will be less noticeable. And if Smith and Cameron improve, all the better. I'm more skeptical on Cameron since he couldn't stop anybody last year, though.
Believe it or not, I think another key improvement to defense will result from Starks' absence. To the degree our 1-2 combination is DSR-Trawick instead of DSR-Starks, that's a much improved defensive set of guards. And my guess is that if Peak plays any guard, his defense will prove to be better than Starks.
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