DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 15, 2012 8:59:20 GMT -5
I will give you this, an all time great certainly gets that no call on the foul against Durant at the end of the game last night. ...and in David Stern's NBA, the same play in reverse in the same situation is ALWAYS Durant's 6th foul. Give Scott Brooks credit: he wasn't getting into discussing that call at all after the game as he knows that going into an 18-2 hole to start a NBA Finals game is no recipe for victory.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 15, 2012 15:21:41 GMT -5
No one is questioning the guy's skills. However, to a lot of people, in order to be an "all time great," you need to be clutch and win some championships. I realize that. Several posters have mentioned some "all time greats" who never won 'chips, like Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, Elgin Baylor. Wilt was mentioned above because he didn't win during his first 8-9 years in the league -- about the same length of time as Lebron currently. Another guy who almost missed winning a title - but who was absolutely among the "best ever all time greats" ... was Oscar Robertson. Never won an NCAA title either, although he and Jerry West teamed up as the USA's starting backcourt and won gold in the Rome Olympics -- 1960. Back to "O", only late in his career was he traded to Milwaukee! Where he teamed with another all time great, then young and still named Lou Alcindor. Had that trade not been made, Robertson would not have won a title, but no list of All Time greats could be complete without including the first and only player to AVERAGE a triple double for an ENTIRE Season.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jun 19, 2012 11:28:09 GMT -5
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 26, 2012 9:17:49 GMT -5
I will give you this, an all time great certainly gets that no call on the foul against Durant at the end of the game last night. ...and in David Stern's NBA, the same play in reverse in the same situation is ALWAYS Durant's 6th foul. In "Stern's NBA" Durant would never pick up a 6th foul that late in the same situation. Otherwise he would have gotten his sixth minutes earlier when Battier got there for the charge. Seriously you guys hate the NBA unless your teams are winning or if a player you despise is losing. When something else happens the narrative becomes that the league is fixed or broken.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 26, 2012 9:32:11 GMT -5
No one is questioning the guy's skills. However, to a lot of people, in order to be an "all time great," you need to be clutch and win some championships. Well, he has his championship. But still define "clutch" for me? Clutch isn't just about making a final shot at the buzzer, clutch is about playing a complete game ALL GAME LONG, which gives your team a better chance at winning in the first place. Clutch is about increasing your averages during the post season which LeBron has always done except for his subpar showing against Dallas lat year. Even in that series against Boston a couple of years back in which people said he quit on his team, he put up some astounding numbers across the board that hardly anyone in the history of the league could touch. And yet somehow he quit on the Cavs? Why? Because he couldn't carry that sorry team past the Celtics own manufactured Big Three, a team which almost surely will send four players to the Hall of Fame (Rondo included)? Clutch is being the best player on teams that never lost in the first round (Kobe and MJ can't say that). Clutch is guarding all five positions when your team needs it. Clutch is being the best scorer, the best rebounder, the best ballhandler, the best passer and the best defender on your squad. LeBron has been all of that BEFORE he won his championship. The geek stat keepers of the NBA show that in the last three minutes of a game LeBron hits a much higher percentage of his shots than Kobe but for some reason Kobe gets the rep of being Mr. Clutch when that is far from the case. Obviously perception and biases shape people's opinions on these matters.
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Post by badgerhoya on Jun 26, 2012 11:32:48 GMT -5
No one is questioning the guy's skills. However, to a lot of people, in order to be an "all time great," you need to be clutch and win some championships. Well, he has his championship. But still define "clutch" for me? Clutch isn't just about making a final shot at the buzzer, clutch is about playing a complete game ALL GAME LONG, which gives your team a better chance at winning in the first place. Clutch is about increasing your averages during the post season which LeBron has always done except for his subpar showing against Dallas lat year. Even in that series against Boston a couple of years back in which people said he quit on his team, he put up some astounding numbers across the board that hardly anyone in the history of the league could touch. And yet somehow he quit on the Cavs? Why? Because he couldn't carry that sorry team past the Celtics own manufactured Big Three, a team which almost surely will send four players to the Hall of Fame (Rondo included)? Clutch is being the best player on teams that never lost in the first round (Kobe and MJ can't say that). Clutch is guarding all five positions when your team needs it. Clutch is being the best scorer, the best rebounder, the best ballhandler, the best passer and the best defender on your squad. LeBron has been all of that BEFORE he won his championship. The geek stat keepers of the NBA show that in the last three minutes of a game LeBron hits a much higher percentage of his shots than Kobe but for some reason Kobe gets the rep of being Mr. Clutch when that is far from the case. Obviously perception and biases shape people's opinions on these matters. On the Kobe vs. LeBron clutchness comparison, I think the thing that has driven some people crazy about LeBron is that so often he's willing to pass up a shot in the final seconds of a close game, whereas Kobe will almost never do that. Granted, in terms of the right basketball play, I think that getting the ball to the open man who has a better / easier shot is usually the right call, but people expect someone with a moniker of King James to be willing to sink the dagger himself.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 26, 2012 14:26:26 GMT -5
...and in David Stern's NBA, the same play in reverse in the same situation is ALWAYS Durant's 6th foul. In "Stern's NBA" Durant would never pick up a 6th foul that late in the same situation. Disagree. LeBron is there, Durant was not (this year at least). Simple as that. No 'hatin' involved.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 27, 2012 20:08:05 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree with you. Durant isn't going to be called for a foul like that late in the game either. I mean was Dirk "there" last year and LeBron not? Who knew?
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