hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394 
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 4, 2011 11:39:44 GMT -5
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Oct 4, 2011 12:40:49 GMT -5
Bad. Free speech.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 4, 2011 12:56:54 GMT -5
Has nothing to do with free speech. It has to do with the free market. Hank is entitled to say whatever he wants - and he did. ESPN is entitled to make whatever business decisions they choose to enhance their profitability and long term business relationships and outlook. In this case, ESPN chose not to be associated with a complete moron like Hank because they would look like jackasses (or worse) and they believe it would hurt their bottom line - viewers, sponsors, cable operators, whomever. God Bless America. |
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 4, 2011 12:58:30 GMT -5
^^^ What he said.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Boz on Oct 4, 2011 13:32:01 GMT -5
They should get Kanye.  |
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 4, 2011 14:12:15 GMT -5
That song was pretty stale anyways...Hank's big mouth just gave ESPN the cover it needed to re-brand Monday Night Football. I'm sure they've been itching to do that since they landed it.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Oct 4, 2011 14:29:09 GMT -5
That song was pretty stale anyways...Hank's big mouth just gave ESPN the cover it needed to re-brand Monday Night Football. I'm sure they've been itching to do that since they landed it. It's already been done once before, in 2000 or 2001 I think, when ABC decided that Bocephus was too old-school for their product. I'm pretty sure Jessica Simpson replaced him for one or two episodes. (This was back when I still cared about NFL football, for the record.) If MNF was a new program today, I seriously doubt that the man who sang "If the south woulda won we'd-a had it made" would be featured on any national telecast. |
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Oct 4, 2011 18:51:00 GMT -5
I love the fact that we live in a country where Hank has the right to be stupid and ESPN has the right to say be supid elsewhere.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 4, 2011 20:01:06 GMT -5
I love the fact that we live in a country where Hank has the right to be stupid and ESPN has the right to say be supid elsewhere. Yep. You're wrong on this one, EE. Both Jr. and ESPN are exercising their rights as they see fit. ESPN isn't bound to see itself linked to imbeciles. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 4, 2011 20:12:47 GMT -5
Was that a typo, or is it just ingrained in your system to call ed wrong....even when he's right?
;D
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RDF
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Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Oct 5, 2011 0:09:38 GMT -5
MNF is dead anyways--the football public views the Sunday Night game as "the big game" and MNF is amateur hour with horse**** announcers, and anticlimatic games.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 5, 2011 11:33:13 GMT -5
Was that a typo, or is it just ingrained in your system to call ed wrong....even when he's right? ;D Well, we know that Ed is always "right," and I'm not one to say that is necessarily wrong - but in this case, it is.  |
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 6, 2011 13:32:30 GMT -5
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Oct 7, 2011 11:59:24 GMT -5
I think that you all are arguing two different questions. Should Williams be allowed to speak his mind as he did? Yes, of course. Should ESPN be allowed to choose with whom they associate? Yes. So from that standpoint, they are both well within their rights. Taken further, Williams should, at least in theory, consider how his comments might be viewed by others and whether or not they might serve to sever other relationships. Even moreso, forethought would suggest some sort of guaranteed contract or at least a clause addressing the dissolution of the relationship.
That being said, I don't think we are too naive to suggest that making such bold statements didn't influence that decision. So when/where does ESPN's dominance, through control of MNF end? In other words, if the powers that be are free to do as they please and free to fire you for speaking your mind, then do you really have free speach? Interesting point.
The main counterpoint would be how they would have responded if they had a relationship with the Dixie Chicks, for example? The point is that there are a lot of different views out there. What we would probably all agree to is that if anyone had been using the MNF platform to state their political views, then we would be totally turned off. But do their rights as individuals disappear universally when they are some sort of public personality/celebrety?
I can see both arguments here.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Oct 7, 2011 12:17:32 GMT -5
I actually just read the story for the first time. If there's not more to it than that, then I think it's absurd to react with such venom. Again, maybe this particular story: m.yahoo.com/w/sports/home/blogs/article?offset=4&urn=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cyhoo%3A20050301%3Anfl%2Carticle%2Cyhoo-ept_sports_nfl_experts-wp8592%3A1&.ts=1317688970&.ysid=PlVK_Skdh4X9C0.ZVfEmCk8_&.intl=US&.lang=endoesn't have the entire text, but if so, then at least as an issue, this is just a bunch of hooey. If Hank had said, "like Netanyahu playing a round of golf with Hitler" would there be the same response? The parallel nature would officially equate Obama to Hitler, but I think it's quite clear that the point was that the opposites couldn't and wouldn't mix. Also, if ESPN is going to take that extreme of a reaction, then I think they need to research all of the statements that any of their spokesmen have made through the years. I am certain that you could find examples at least as extreme as what Hank said. I want all of them canned on the spot. I think this was just an example of someone in charge trying to speak his own political mind. And in this regard, yes, it is a restriction on free speach and Easy Ed was right. |
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Oct 7, 2011 12:22:30 GMT -5
I can't stand it when people bogusly claim free speech violations when someone pays the non-criminal price for saying something stupid or vile. Free speech is a legal concept- it does not extend to non-legal reprocussions of people deciding that you are an A hole. That said, what he said really wasn't too offensive unless you are overly-sensitive and feel entitled to be offended and scream about it- but that describes just about all Americans these days. So a good rule of thumb, never compare Hitler to anybody at any time ever ever ever. Just a no win/all risk situation. And you generally look 8 years old when you do it.
To be honest that song was stale a decade ago, and he's just such a monstrously uncool dufus that I think this is an opportunity that ESPN is probably grateful for.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 7, 2011 12:35:34 GMT -5
Was there even an argument on this? I don't think there was. I can't find an argument in the thread until hifi chimed in. Oh, and MNF/ESPN/Disney absolutely would've fired The Dixie Chicks. There is literally no question about it. I prefer to call everyone Hitler all the time. I think it defuses the name. |
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Oct 7, 2011 13:13:48 GMT -5
thebin wrote:
That said, what he said really wasn't too offensive unless you are overly-sensitive and feel entitled to be offended and scream about it- but that describes just about all Americans these days. So a good rule of thumb, never compare Hitler to anybody at any time ever ever ever. Just a no win/all risk situation
That was exactly what I was thinking when I first heard all the outcry about this yesterday. I wasn't near a computer and I never heard/read exactly what was said. I presumed it was much, much more severe than it was. I thought he actually likened Obama to Hitler at least in some superficial way. But, if ... and again, that's a big if, as sometimes simple text doesn't convey everything. Still, IF all he said was that Obama and Boehner playing gold together was silly and contrived -- a sort of political staging, if you will -- stupid, and would be like Hitler playing a round with Netanyahu, then all of this controversy is way overblown. Again, if he had simply said it would be like "Netanyahu playing golf with Hitler" would it have been ANY different? Of course not. In that case, I guess he would be calling Obama "Netanyahu." I just think it's totally silly.
Boz wrote:
Oh, and MNF/ESPN/Disney absolutely would've fired The Dixie Chicks. There is literally no question about it.
The Dixie Chicks were very, very vocal about George W. Bush. Additionally, the timing was much more severe, as we were in the middle of two wars. Granted, they aren't "over" but it is a different situation now. Still, that isn't the point. The insults and criticisms of Bush were much more extreme. It's not even close. Yet I don't remember too much of an outcry after their comments in England. I know that they lost some popularity among many of their former fans. But I don't remember hearing of them being fired from something or having any of their shows cancelled. I don't rememember any sponsors severing ties with them. Again, they are free to act in their own best interests. But my point is that if you are using your platform for your own political views, then it is either acceptable or it is not. It doesn't matter what you views are. That's the whole point. Additionally, it Williams' case, I don't see him paralleling Obama himself to Hitler himself AT ALL. Do any of you honestly see that parallel?
That being said, the bin does make the suggestion to refrain from any mention of Hitler, just to be safe. That's true, but at least, in this case, should it be?
Do you really see this as "calling Obama Hitler" as some headlines have worded it?
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Boz on Oct 7, 2011 14:02:00 GMT -5
Are you serious?
Look, I'm no fan of the Dixie Chicks, either their political views or their crappy, crappy, country-lite music.
But there is no question about the fallout they faced after making controversial political statements.
They were boycotted, yes they did lose sponsors, radio stations would not play their music, and they really haven't ever made it back to the popularity they enjoyed prior.
No, their label didn't drop them, I don't believe, but the point is, the label would have had every right to. And an organization as profitable and conservative (not politically conservative, but risk-averse) as ABC/Disney would never have continued to associate with them. Particularly in a flagship program such as MNF.
And frankly, their statements were pretty freaking tame by today's standards. I didn't like their statements one bit, but there was nothing that extreme about them. One of the biggest parts of the controversy was not what they said, but that they were saying critical things on foreign soil. Now, that's a big no-no for politicians (just don't tell Jimmy Carter or Al Gore), but for entertainers? They do it all the time.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 8, 2011 21:02:00 GMT -5
Was there even an argument on this? I don't think there was. I can't find an argument in the thread until hifi chimed in. Oh, and MNF/ESPN/Disney absolutely would've fired The Dixie Chicks. There is literally no question about it. I prefer to call everyone Hitler all the time. I think it defuses the name. Hitler. |
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