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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 17, 2011 14:43:30 GMT -5
If the Big East loses Pitt and Syracuse, the value of the Big East to Georgetown goes irrevocably with them. We lose our biggest rival in Syracuse and the strongest overall team the last five years in Pitt. Also, academically, Pitt and Syracuse are major research universities with Phi beta Kappa chapters. We are already academic misfits in the Big East. Our world class academic divisions (Law, SFS, etc) and top 15 level selectivity (per U.S. News) already make us different than our athletic brethren in the Big East (with schools like St. John's, DePaul, Villanova, Louisville, South Florida, Providence, Seton Hall, Marquette, Connecticut etc,). Take away Pitt's medical school and Syracuse's Maxwell school from the conference, and we are screwed both academically and basketball wise.
The biggest impediment to joining the Ivy League is the competitiveness of our football program. That is no longer a problem as our 37-27 loss to Yale proves today. We could field a football team that could play .500 ball there. And such a move would free us from having to step to scholarship football in the Patriot League as Fordham is now forcing the Patriot league members to do to stay competitive.
I think the Big East and big time basketball is over for us in the current world and that we should go where we belong. All we need to do is convince Duke (which is faced with an ACC that will have to step up to Big time football ala the SEC/Pac 12 etc.) to come with us to keep the Ivy league schedules balanced.
I think the Ivy League would love bringing Duke and us in, since there are a lot of administrators who would like to deep six the historic antipathy in the ancient eight toward both southern and catholic education. This is something they would want to do and which both Duke and us need.
And we have a coach in JT III with proven Ivy coaching experience.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Sept 17, 2011 14:51:09 GMT -5
Makes a ton of sense for football, but very little for basketball.
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Post by daymondmyles on Sept 17, 2011 15:00:45 GMT -5
Ivy? Please, never post again.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 17, 2011 15:35:08 GMT -5
I do not think it will happen, but it's always been a long-running "what if" question best settled around the bar and grill: if you were Jack DeGioia and got the call from the Ivies (and all that it implies on and off the field), what do you do?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 17, 2011 15:46:02 GMT -5
There is a better chance the Pac 12 invites us for membership than the ivy league. Better chance that duke joins the NBA than ivy league for basketball. That is a closed club, period.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 17, 2011 15:59:06 GMT -5
Well Duke would never go so that part is crazy. With the basketball world collapsing around us, it doesn't make as little sense as it once did. My main question is how much would a move to the ivy league help us academically. Sure prestige wise it helps a little I would think, but would such a move increase our endowment? Would it get us more research money? Would it allow us to hire better teachers? Would we attract better students? IF the answer to those questions are yes, then yeah it might make sense to make that move.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 17, 2011 16:12:47 GMT -5
Wasn't Catholicism the original impediment to a Georgetown/Ivy marriage? Or, is that just a popularly creaed and repeated myth? DFW?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 17, 2011 16:14:24 GMT -5
Wasn't Catholicism the original impediment to a Georgetown/Ivy marriage? Or, is that just a popularly creaed and repeated myth? DFW? Urban legend, nothing more. Unlike the various schools that claim the Ivies were once interested in them circa 1953, Georgetown was never in the discussion. |
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Sept 17, 2011 16:16:57 GMT -5
As far as the last comment in the original post...You go Ivy, JTIII aint staying.
Basketball wise, this is just about a worst-case scenario.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Sept 17, 2011 16:19:12 GMT -5
Wasn't Catholicism the original impediment to a Georgetown/Ivy marriage? Or, is that just a popularly creaed and repeated myth? DFW? Urban legend, nothing more. Unlike the various schools that claim the Ivies were once interested in them circa 1953, Georgetown was never in the discussion. Who was on that list? |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 17, 2011 16:34:52 GMT -5
The original four (the "IV") were Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia. Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell followed. Penn was a reluctant eighth, as it maintained major college football through 1955. Army and Navy had a informal relationship with the Ivy schools for many years in the Heptathalon (track) but made no football commitments and left the Heps when the Patriot League added track. Discussions were raised in the 1970's about possibly reaching out to Northwestern if Columbia dropped football, but both decisions never took place. Colgate, Rutgers, and varous schools in the NESCAC have floated stories about being candidates, but it never went beyond the original eight. |
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Post by reformation on Sept 17, 2011 16:40:11 GMT -5
We'd have to approach them--I wouldn't rule it out for an individual sport like they did for army/navy in track--we could probably join the ACC I think on that basis too for a sport like lax--that being said we could probably petition the ACC to join in individual sports like lax, where they don't have a full complement of teams.
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Post by reformation on Sept 17, 2011 16:42:12 GMT -5
As far as the last comment in the original post...You go Ivy, JTIII aint staying. Basketball wise, this is just about a worst-case scenario. The univ should trade IVY status for JT3 leaving for big money elsewhere if that unlikely tradeoff ever presented itself |
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Post by daymondmyles on Sept 17, 2011 17:05:35 GMT -5
Ivy means no scholarships, goodbye basketball, Nike, and any semblance of a program. It's ridiculous to even discuss this. Why don't you just talk about shutting the program down too.
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tjm62
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Post by tjm62 on Sept 17, 2011 17:07:19 GMT -5
In this day and age, any school with an opportunity to join the Ivy League should take it and run, completely apart from sports. They have prestige which alone benefits the school in innumerable ways. The associative effect has allowed marginal schools like Cornell to become "elite" institutions.
Of course, there is no indication that the Ivy League has any intention of expanding, nor would I expect it to.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 17, 2011 17:07:21 GMT -5
It is hysterical how many colleges claim they were almost in the ivy league. A guy at work swears to me holy cross was invited but turned it down as removing catholic affiliation was a stipulation. Its an urban legend with strong legs. Us arguing about whether we would accept an invite is a bit like me arguing over whether i would have unprotected sex with angelina jolie if she offered. Not going to lose much sleep over that quandry. (yes.)
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guru
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Post by guru on Sept 17, 2011 17:08:48 GMT -5
It is hysterical how many colleges claim they were almost in the ivy league. A guy at work swears to me holy cross was invited but turned it down as removing catholic affiliation was a stipulation. Its an urban legend with strong legs. Actually, that's true. |
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 17, 2011 17:11:29 GMT -5
Any evidence? I find it impossible to believe the ivies in the 50's considered inviting a pretty poor catholic school. Im going to need proof.
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guru
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Post by guru on Sept 17, 2011 17:11:30 GMT -5
Ivy means no scholarships, goodbye basketball, Nike, and any semblance of a program. It's ridiculous to even discuss this. Why don't you just talk about shutting the program down too. It's only outlandish because it's highly doubtful the Ivy League would expand. From the Georgetown perspective, most alumni would trade a spot among the Ivies for a mantel full of NCAA championships. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Sept 17, 2011 17:13:16 GMT -5
What do you require? Convincing you means a great deal to me. |
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