The Esherick Effect

[BigMike]

For anyone who thinks we're going to be good this coming year they are kidding themselves. It won't matter how well JTII coaches because Esherick has left us with very little.

Our senior class :
Tony Bethel--Gone
Thomas--Gone
Hall-Gone
Owens--average ability

Junior Class:
Bowman---Good not great
Cook---streaks of good but probably the worst pt guard in the big east last year.

Sophs:
Sead---non factor
reed--non factor
Causey--not a big east player and it wouldn't be a big deal if he transferred.

Freshman:
J Green---our best hope
hibbert--a project
crawford--not highly rated
Cornelio---unknown


In 3 years Esherick brought in only 2 players that are proven big east players(Bowman and Owens)--and neither one is great.

As far as this being a great recruiting class---I think the only one who is of Big East quality is Green possibly Cornelio.

Even if we give Esh the benefit of the doubt thats 4 big east caliber players in 4 years.

JTIII has brought one(Josh Thorton) --in just a few months.


JTIII is moving fast but it will take at least 2more years before we make the NCAA's

[Deleted]

Agreed, Mike. I think just the change from Esh to III is good for a couple close game wins, as Esh was the worst close game manager of all time. But that's still not enough. Hibbert in my opinion should be viewed like RBB. He's really really rough on the offensive end, and can hold his own on the defensive side but really physical guys should be able to establish position, use their moves, etc. Like RBB, I'm hoping that after a few years he is adequate on the offensive side and much better-very good on the defensive end.

Green has the look of being a great Big East slasher-post player. Depends on how he's used and how serious he is about his own development. Great ups, showed a good shot last night, decent handle, but I liked how he passed out of a lot of situations last night, which is more than I can say for BB, Reed and Hibbert.

Esh left the cupboard pretty bare. Let's see what III can do to fill it up and how he makes use of it. BUt as per my prediction when he was hired, Hoya Paranoia in 06-07.

GO HOYAS!!!

[RDF]

I'd like to comment on some of these thoughts/opinions which are good discussion and a few that I think are very unfair.

First of all, Esh recruited some good players but they weren't not developed or taught the finer points to improve. The thing with most kids no matter the talent level, they should get better from game one to the end of the season from FR year to SR year, etc... and with Esh they stayed the same.

I think some of the kids you mentioned are not Big East Caliber players, but the ones you chose to take shots at surprised me and I actually disagree with you.

Starting with the guy who I think will benefit the most from JT III's system and that's Darrel Owens. I'm not saying Owens is an All Big East player, but he's the best all around player in terms of skill level and what he can do on the court. I'd invest a lot more in him getting better than Bowman for the simple reason that he has skills but needs to be given more confidence. Bowman has no clue how to play basketball but is talented. Difference is he doesnt' show any sign of adjusting his game whereas Owens often catered to Bowman and Esh's system of MORON BALL where the team does nothing in form of running an offense of recognizing mis-matches, etc....

Matt Causey isn't a Big East Player? He might not be worthy of All Conference Honors but he's a guy who will help you win and can help a team off the bench--with this team he could start depending on if Ashanti Cook learns to play or not? Causey is one of the few who would rather lose a limb than watch his team get beat and we need MORE of an attitude like that. He sets up teammates and knows how to play the game of basketball. Decision Making is as important as skill at the point guard position and while I feel GU needs an OVERHAUL of TALENT before we set our goals high, Causey can play on this team. Some of you guys ignore the fact that not everyone is meant to score 20 ppg and the game isn't always meant to be pretty, sometimes it's about loose balls, shoving someone back when they are punking you, and getting on floor for loose balls, etc... To me Causey would be an ideal Back Up Guard for a good team and on this team, he's my choice to start in the Backcourt.

This comparison of Hibbert to RBB by some is just WRONG. Ruben frustrated many because he had talent but lacked aggression. He's in the NBA and had more game in HS than Hibbert will have after 2 years at GU. It's not Roy's fault as Big men often need time to develop but to compare Hibbert to RBB as a "Measure" is wrong. If that were the case, I'd say Hibbert should start, but it's not and it's a shot at RBB who while not one of my favorite players, was much more skilled and talented than given credit for---his rebounding alone was worth him on the court.

Tyler Crawford is my pick to be a pleasant surprise. He's known as a jack of all trades Wing and he was one of the top shooters at the Nike Camp last year and we all know he's a good rebounder and defender as well. I expect him to contribute a lot and he's the guy I'm most excited to hear about in the Kenner--hope he plays tonight.

Guibunda can run the floor and is skilled so I think he and Green, along with Diaw will provide much more energy/athleticism up front. I'd take a FR duo of Green/Guibunda over Courtland Freeman any day and I know Jeff Green is built like a "3" but he doesn't play like that in games. Remember the Kenner is a Pick Up League and Green most players show off talent in that setting but flourish in a Controlled Setting which is why they are recruited.

I do agree 100% with you guys on how long it will take for GU to get back to being a real legit competitor for Postseason but the faster you get big time players, the shorter the wait for the return to respectibility. We're on the right track, but man did Esh put us in a hole that will make things tough.

[nychoya3]

Agree on pretty much every point with RDF. A couple things to add.

1) I don't understand the Causey bashing in some quarters. No one thinks he's the savior, but he clearly was a productive player for us at the end of the year. I'd take him running the point ahead of Reed any day of the week.
2) Owens is an above average talent, with below average results thus far. He can be very, very good.
3) Guibunda is not really an unknown. He played some AAU ball as was regarded as a top-100 player by everyone. I confident that he can help as an active body this year and that he will turn into a very good player.
4) Crawford is really unknown. He played in a very poor league, so much so that he often played like a PF even though he's only 6'4''. At worst, he's an active and aggressive body in the backcourt. But I'd honestly be surprised if he has the guard skills at this point to play major minutes. Just a guess. I'm fine with taking him on even if he's not an immediate contributer. There's always room for good kids with leadership qualities in a class.

[Deleted]

Hey, no Causey bashing from me. I just wish we'd seen him more last year.

I don't know, RDF...time will tell on the RBB-Hibbert comparison. I"m not saying they are similar players, just that I'd like to see Hibbert DEVELOP like RBB in that he was pretty rough to start, throwing up layups that never hit the rim, etc. but by the time he left was a contributor on offense but pretty good on D. If we can get that from Roy, his career will be a success in my opinion.

Also, you may be right about Crawford. Saw him tonight for the first time and I liked what I saw. Lots of energy on defense, active hands, seemed to have good instincts. Granted, he's not going to be an All-American I'm sure, but he'll be a good few minutes a game guy.

GO HOYAS!!!

[DFW HOYA]

Craig was his own worst enemy at times, but I think he was not well served by his choice of assistants who maintain the ebb and flow of recruiting. Had Ronny and/or Chip not chased after the quicksilver of the Cheyenne Moores and Robert McKivers of the recruiting world and focused on stable, senior year talent, I think the consistency of the recruiting effort would have improved considerably. And it remains incomprehensible to me that the Georgetown coaches of the Esherick era were no closer to signing a WCAC product than it was a generation before. Tell a ND or UConn fan that it's been 35 years since Georgetown signed a DeMatha kid and they'll never believe it.

Here's the point: when it comes to assistants, you can't have it both ways--either they are vital or they aren't. They are. Craig was the lead recruiter in the 80's and while JT2 closed the deal, Craig was the one on the road and working the lists, as was Ronny in recent years.

If coaches Burke and Broadus do their job, it will make JT3 a success--without them, well, we've seen where it will lead.

The days of a single coach dominating the media and recruiting circles doesn't exist, at least outside the cult of K.

[SaxaCD]

DFW, i think there also comes a point where results can start getting in the way of recruiting. While Craig was known for getting out there and being point man for JT first, and then very active on his own later (look at even this year's recruits, who had so many good things to say about him), there were so many more guys he couldn't get in front of because of the way his team looked, especially on televised games, over the past few years. I don't think JT3 and his staff have to repair damage done by neglectful recruiting by the previous staff; instead, they have to repair GU's image as a place where you can come to win.

[NightWing]

I have to agree with NYChoya3 on the Causey bashing all of a sudden. I don't get it, but what else is new? And as far as the new kids on the block are concerned, I'm going to hold judgement until I see them play. No use in saying they're this or that until we hear the squeak of their Nikes on the hardwood. The summer league is nice, but there are so many conflicting things being said, I hardly use that as a measuring stick. But, here's one thing I'll already give them, at least they're honoring their commitment to GU when we had the coaching change. So that's already one feather in their caps.

Well, as Kent Brockman says, "Only time will tell."

[the_way]

Good points made by everyone. I think it was time for Craig to move on. Too much damage had been done, and it was time for the program to have clean slate. In terms of the players, I think what we are lacking is a point guard, that can start and hold his own in the big east. Georgetown is known as big man University, but we have a long list of great point guards. Cook is really a 2 in a point guards body. His strength is being off the ball, and creating his own shot, shooting a good midrange jumper. Causey, like somebody said earlier, is good off the bench. He won't make mistakes to hurt you in the game, and he can keep things stable, until the starter gets back in the game. I don't really see him being a big east caliber starting point guard. Ray Reed, is a good athlete, great defender, and great leaper, but it seems like he doesn't really know how to play within the flow of the game. With some good coaching, I think he will be solid. For Bowman, same thing, needs to know how to play within the flow of the game. Once he does, I think he will be a good Pro prospect. Green is a Georgetown type of player. He fits the mold of the 80's Georgetown. Mentally tough, and not afraid to mix it up in the paint. Hopefully that will wear off on the other guys. We need some moxie with this team.

With the Princeton offense, I don't know if these players fit into this type of offense. It will be interesting to see how JTIII manages this, and if he adjusts.