Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 9, 2005 11:30:46 GMT -5
You know what this is...the world smallest violin playing just for Pierre Dukes.
Man, all the human interest stories...you woulda thought it was the olympics, not March Madness.
An just cause Oakland scheduled some big dogs and lost, doesn't make me feel good for them. The fact is they didn't take care of business all season. They didn't just lose to Illinois, Xavier and Mizzu (the last two being in the midst of horrible down years) they lost to just about everyone in their piddly conference.
So my question is why should they go? Because of the drama and the mystique? If you want that, watch the OC. It's got better writers and hot girls kissing each other. I personally want to watch the best teams playing each other to see who is the best. But that's just me. I'll TiVo the OC and watch it at my leisure.
But, I'll agree to disagree on this one.
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ShimmyJr
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Post by ShimmyJr on Mar 9, 2005 11:40:32 GMT -5
i mean cambridge, i see your points, and i enjoyed you hilarious post, but guess what guy...the best teams will still be playing the best teams to see who is #1 --> the fact that a mediocre team like Georgetown will not make the tournament possibly because a team like Oakland upset ORU in a small conference tourney does not hinder the potential for the top teams to match up.
Most of the bubble teams in the major conferences had their chances to cement their bids and instead choked like dogs...so i personally have no problem with the human interest/random last second three-pointers in these small conference tourneys - as someone said, that is an essential part of March madness
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Mar 9, 2005 11:46:24 GMT -5
Oakland's OOC Opponents:
Xavier Illinois Marquette Texas A&M Kansas St. Saint Louis Michigan State
Yep, they just waited to get lucky in March...
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 9, 2005 11:46:45 GMT -5
I guess I count myself as one of those who think, fine, the tourney winner gets the bid, if that's how the conference decides it. When that happens, though, I don't want to hear any whining from anybody about how that conference "deserves" a second bid. If you decide the conference tourney is the thing, then be happy sending your 25-win team to the NIT, especially if they don't have an NCAA-worthy resume on anything except wins against bad teams. A lot of these mid-major or, really, low-major (I do think the true mid-majors have some claims to an extra bid now and then) rooters want to have it both ways, but they made their beds with the end of the year tourney system, and now they should have to lie in it.
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Mar 9, 2005 11:52:53 GMT -5
my sister-in-law just graduated from oakland in december. i was there for the ceremony. nice school.
great story.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 9, 2005 12:04:11 GMT -5
I agree with SaxaCD, that's fine, have your tourney but don't come begging for a second bid. You don't deserve it.
Oh and Shimmy, I wasn't even thinking of the implications to the larger conferences...but now that you mention it...
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 13:44:47 GMT -5
Choose the top two teams from each conference and hand out two at-large bids...
Let a computer do the seedings by selecting the match-ups at complete random...
That would create parity...
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 14:04:20 GMT -5
If your team takes care of 'Business' during the regular season, then you don't care if Oakland gets a bid or not...
It really doesn't bother me that a small-school-team gets into the tourney...We all know that the 'system' is crooked and setup to reward certain schools...and if you can't say that you're a member of a certain conference, you're usually one of the ones that are going to get the "dookie" end of the stick...
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 9, 2005 14:12:32 GMT -5
I am totally with Giga and Cambridge on this one. I hate the conference tournaments, despite the fact that they often produce exciting and entertaining basketball. For non-major conferences, they render the regular season completely meaningless. Yeah, it's nice that ORU and Davidson combined to go 29-3 in their conference play. That and 20 bucks will buy you a ticket to their first NIT game. It's ridiculous.
I've hated these tournaments since the '60's, when only the ACC had one, and it often resulted in the best team being left home. It's just insane. And let's face it, the conferences don't play these tournaments for idealistic reasons. As posted by Cam earlier, these tournaments exist for one reason: $$$$$$$.
HoyaSox, you can take pleasure in Oakland's accomplishment if you like, but how about some sympathy for the ORU players, who just had their season flushed down the toilet on a fluke. This ain't "Hoosiers", where the little guys earned their way in to the tournament. The NCAA equivalent of Hoosiers would be ORU winning the NCAA title, and they have now lost that opportunity.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 9, 2005 14:16:59 GMT -5
If your team takes care of 'Business' during the regular season, then you don't care if Oakland gets a bid or not... Aggy, just because you can't think about something in terms of principle or abstractions -- just because all of your thinking is influenced solely by how it affects YOU, that doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way. You constantly pull out this line -- oh, in just about every argument you have. You think you are the only person capable of thinking objectively. It's insulting.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 14:25:04 GMT -5
Aggy, just because you can't think about something in terms of principle or abstractions -- just because all of your thinking is influenced solely by how it affects YOU, that doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way. You constantly pull out this line -- oh, in just about every argument you have. You think you are the only person capable of thinking objectively. It's insulting. actually, I can... but do you think they're over on Duke's, Carolina's or Kentucky's board crying about Oakland getting in and taking a bid away from them? we knew what we had to do at the beginning of the season to get in...we know that sometimes teams with losing records luck-up and win their conference tournaments... Now we want to blame the Oakland's of the world for taking away something that belongs to us? Please, money...don't even come at me like that...
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 9, 2005 14:42:08 GMT -5
I understand your point, but I'm making this argument with no alterior motives. I don't think we deserve to go to the tournament, but I also don't think a team like Davidson or Oral Roberts should get shafted because they loose one game.
This is a concern I've had for a while, you see my brothers go to a mid-major school (GW) and a small conference school (American) and even if their teams should do well all year and rack up impressive seasons, they can get knocked out of the one bid their conference will get in their conference tournaments. That is frustrating as hell.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Mar 9, 2005 14:55:23 GMT -5
Cambridge - you can't put GW in your argument there. They just don't fit. GW and any team in the A-10 that has a solid season can go and get an at-large bid. The American example, okay - not GW.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 9, 2005 14:57:18 GMT -5
actually, I can... but do you think they're over on Duke's, Carolina's or Kentucky's board crying about Oakland getting in and taking a bid away from them? we knew what we had to do at the beginning of the season to get in...we know that sometimes teams with losing records luck-up and win their conference tournaments... Now we want to blame the Oakland's of the world for taking away something that belongs to us? Please, money...don't even come at me like that... Again, you're assigning motivations to people you don't even know. Oh, wait, I forgot, if I disagree with Aggy -- I'm just biased or stupid. Gotcha.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 14:57:36 GMT -5
I understand your point, but I'm making this argument with no alterior motives. I don't think we deserve to go to the tournament, but I also don't think a team like Davidson or Oral Roberts should get shafted because they loose one game. This is a concern I've had for a while, you see my brothers go to a mid-major school (GW) and a small conference school (American) and even if their teams should do well all year and rack up impressive seasons, they can get knocked out of the one bid their conference will get in their conference tournaments. That is frustrating as hell. It happened to Coppin St back in '94 also...went undefeated in the conference and lost in the first round of the tourney...they didn't even get a call from the NIT... I hate it when mid-majors with 25 wins have to sit home and the NCAA will let in teams from the ACC, Big East, SEC etc. with 10 to 12 losses...
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ShimmyJr
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Post by ShimmyJr on Mar 9, 2005 14:57:46 GMT -5
i just want to say that i laughed out loud when aggy called SFHoya "money" - that is your new name as far as i'm concerned.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 14:58:59 GMT -5
Again, you're assigning motivations to people you don't even know. Oh, wait, I forgot, if I disagree with Aggy -- I'm just biased or stupid. Gotcha. I never called anybody up here stupid... Racist, Biased and Prejudiced I will definitely own up to...and never feel sorry for doing so...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 9, 2005 15:02:12 GMT -5
Like this?
Aggy -- I just think it is wrong to think that you know someone's motivations for their posts. I can know someone well and misplace their motivations -- and you claim you can do it over the internet?
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 9, 2005 15:03:49 GMT -5
Like this? Aggy -- I just think it is wrong to think that you know someone's motivations for their posts. I can know someone well and misplace their motivations -- and you claim you can do it over the internet? when did I do this? I never said I know anything about anyone here...The only time I accused anyone of doing anything is if they said something that was racist...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 9, 2005 15:05:40 GMT -5
When you claimed Cambridge was only saying his argument because the Hoyas were on the bubble.
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