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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 7:33:21 GMT -5
Post by Sam on Mar 19, 2011 7:33:21 GMT -5
Could someone explain why a team can look so good at the beginning of the season and have such bad results at the end? Maybe the competition wasn't as good in the nonconference schedule as we thought, but we won hard road and neural site games - against, for example, ODU, who did better in the CAA than VCU. And, whatever good D they played last night, we missed multiple open looks. Is it fatigue? Poor conditioning? Lack of continued mental focus? Regression to our mean level of talent?
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HoyaPride
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 484
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:02:06 GMT -5
Post by HoyaPride on Mar 19, 2011 8:02:06 GMT -5
In the words of jt3 at the presser, "it is what it is!"
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,753
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:21:03 GMT -5
Post by blueandgray on Mar 19, 2011 8:21:03 GMT -5
WTEff does that mean?
Bottom-line......I have never seen two players in hoya uniforms start out the season so hot and flame out by the end of the season like Jason and Austin. Julian was right there with them. Part of the problem is that we became too reliant on just one or two guys and if for any reason one was off...the wheels fell off.
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:21:43 GMT -5
Post by hoya21 on Mar 19, 2011 8:21:43 GMT -5
"VCU is playing with more energy".... When the announcer said this it sort of summed up the last two months...... With Missouri we were up-tempo.... in the last two months we played tired......
1. Our offense is too predictable. Temple exposed how to shut it down by clogging the middle.. The VCU coach said that was his philosophy. 2. Coach didn't teach the bench.... playing seven people is fine at the end of the year.... but it haunted us.... No Moses development, No Vee development, No Marquel development 3. Julian wore down.... he was the key in the 8 game stretch and actually won many games for us.... He was great 4. Senior leadership..... to many times Chris and Austin were complaining at the end..... not leading.... I can't complain about Chris, but Austin's body language was not that of a winner...- he to may of been tired.... 5. Why doesn't Nate shoot? He is no Jeff Green (yet), but you can't stand at the top of the key when everyone know you aren't going to shoot.... 6. Coaching...... we aren't Princeton, but we certainly are falling into a mid-major team..... Somewhere between FabFive and Duke...in terms of the players we recruit and the system we run....
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,753
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:25:56 GMT -5
Post by blueandgray on Mar 19, 2011 8:25:56 GMT -5
As to point 5..... Nate doesn't shoot because let's face it....he really can't shoot. No back to the basket game.....no face up game. It's ugly.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:37:36 GMT -5
Post by NCHoya on Mar 19, 2011 8:37:36 GMT -5
I would suggest we were very successful at the start simply because our guys were seniors and knew how to play. That also explains why we never really got better, it is not crazy to think seniors have basically reached their cieling by their senior year while other teams continue to gain experience and confidence and become that much better. Other teams simply closed the expereince gap against us as the season wore on. I would expect us to fall into the latter category next season.
Also, let's face it we are flawed, which is why I hate to hear any anti-JT3 talk. The Hoyas simply did not have a dynamic scorer (once Free lost his jumper) or low post presence for most of the season. Those 2 ingredients mean less when you are playing early season OOC games against either less talented, smaller or younger teams, but once the talent starts getting some seasoning, they catch-up quickly.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,899
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 8:47:27 GMT -5
Post by EtomicB on Mar 19, 2011 8:47:27 GMT -5
"VCU is playing with more energy".... When the announcer said this it sort of summed up the last two months...... With Missouri we were up-tempo.... in the last two months we played tired...... 1. Our offense is too predictable. Temple exposed how to shut it down by clogging the middle.. The VCU coach said that was his philosophy. 2. Coach didn't teach the bench.... playing seven people is fine at the end of the year.... but it haunted us.... No Moses development, No Vee development, No Marquel development 3. Julian wore down.... he was the key in the 8 game stretch and actually won many games for us.... He was great 4. Senior leadership..... to many times Chris and Austin were complaining at the end..... not leading.... I can't complain about Chris, but Austin's body language was not that of a winner...- he to may of been tired.... 5. Why doesn't Nate shoot? He is no Jeff Green (yet), but you can't stand at the top of the key when everyone know you aren't going to shoot.... 6. Coaching...... we aren't Princeton, but we certainly are falling into a mid-major team..... Somewhere between FabFive and Duke...in terms of the players we recruit and the system we run.... I agree with most of your points except for the recruiting angle.. The board was very happy about getting Henry, Jason, Julian,Hollis, Nate, Markel, Moses(remember his 30+ page thread) ect... Imho, it's arm chair QB'ng to now say otherwise. I still think Braswell not getting in really set the team back, even still this squad has players. I feel that JT3 needs to stop being a "system" coach and start being a coach.. I love JT3 and believe he is the right man for the job for a number of reasons. He just has to stop being so rigid..
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 10:43:38 GMT -5
Post by mrsixer123 on Mar 19, 2011 10:43:38 GMT -5
I would suggest we were very successful at the start simply because our guys were seniors and knew how to play. That also explains why we never really got better, it is not crazy to think seniors have basically reached their cieling by their senior year while other teams continue to gain experience and confidence and become that much better. Other teams simply closed the expereince gap against us as the season wore on. I would expect us to fall into the latter category next season. Also, let's face it we are flawed, which is why I hate to hear any anti-JT3 talk. The Hoyas simply did not have a dynamic scorer (once Free lost his jumper) or low post presence for most of the season. Those 2 ingredients mean less when you are playing early season OOC games against either less talented, smaller or younger teams, but once the talent starts getting some seasoning, they catch-up quickly. Who do we hold accountable for being "flawed?"
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hoyasexy
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Actively engaged in extramarital saxa
Posts: 794
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:13:49 GMT -5
Post by hoyasexy on Mar 19, 2011 11:13:49 GMT -5
I feel that JT3 needs to stop being a "system" coach and start being a coach.. I love JT3 and believe he is the right man for the job for a number of reasons. He just has to stop being so rigid.. These are the kinds of comments that just need to stop. There isn't a single coach in the country who doesn't have a system and who doesn't look for players who fit well into his own philosophy. Just because JT3's offensive system has a well-known name doesn't make him any more "rigid" than any other coach. Take, for example, Jonathan Wallace. How well does anyone think he would have done if he played under John Calipari in his DDM offense? Does that make Calipari "rigid"? Does that JWall a bad player? Not at all, but it probably explains why Cal wasn't recruiting JWall at the time - wouldn't have been a good fit.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:27:17 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 19, 2011 11:27:17 GMT -5
the better teams get better at the end of the season and in the playoffs.
the lesser, mediocre to bad teams do not.
see where we fit in that category.
JTIII has now built the program into Princeton 2.0.
solid in-conference performance, but once in the NIT, NCAA's come around against unfamiliar opponents, his teams lose.
and we see how "strong" the big east is.
Villanova, Louisville and us are sitting at home.
the Big East is a quantity league more than it is a quality league. A lot of competitive teams, but all those teams are beatable and have weaknesses.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,908
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:36:19 GMT -5
Post by Filo on Mar 19, 2011 11:36:19 GMT -5
11 BE teams got in. Some were going to lose. I don't think 3 of 11 is bad at all, and two of those three probably shouldn't even have made the tourney based on the way they played toward the end of the season.
Sure, the BE teams are beatable and have weaknesses. Are there some conferences that have teams that are unbeatable and without weakness?
Where are these conferences that are better?
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:39:42 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Mar 19, 2011 11:39:42 GMT -5
I feel that JT3 needs to stop being a "system" coach and start being a coach.. I love JT3 and believe he is the right man for the job for a number of reasons. He just has to stop being so rigid.. These are the kinds of comments that just need to stop. There isn't a single coach in the country who doesn't have a system and who doesn't look for players who fit well into his own philosophy. Just because JT3's offensive system has a well-known name doesn't make him any more "rigid" than any other coach. Take, for example, Jonathan Wallace. How well does anyone think he would have done if he played under John Calipari in his DDM offense? Does that make Calipari "rigid"? Does that JWall a bad player? Not at all, but it probably explains why Cal wasn't recruiting JWall at the time - wouldn't have been a good fit. III also used to sub Rivers to help make up defensively for what Wallace couldn't do i.e. an in-game adjustment. He also moved Wallace to a 2G more against pressure while letting Sapp handle the ball--so he adapted to his personnel-the very thing people want to see more of from him, but he also got away from recruiting to his system--and then tried to utilize a system that wasn't fit for his personnel and how his team performed. That is why he's seen as "rigid". If your team doesn't value the ball--why would you run a system that limits possessions and emphasizes skilled players who need to be able to pass/make reads? If you are small/slow--wouldn't emphasis be on being extremely strong as a team with the ball and being more aggressive in terms of trying to get early offense--i.e. quick hitters before defenses are set? If you are limited physically-you have to know assignments/responsibilities on defense and this just doesn't happen. The constant mishaps of crossmatches--finally Chris Wright screamed at Sims to switch back-and that was after it cost Wright/Hollis 3 of their 5 fouls in the 1st Half. If you have a guy who is your lone scorer and is one of the only players playing in a manner that showed it was an elimination game--not to mention the only guy shooting well--why not start 2nd Half with him? Why not play the "hot hand"? When your opponents are waiting for you to make an adjustment to counter what they are doing--and they are kicking your ass--why would they adjust to make game easier for you? If you want to talk roster limitations due to inadequate talent--understand-but that doesn't mean you force things that don't work on players that don't fit what you like to do and some of the mishaps that hurt this group are going to continue to happen if the emphasis of valuing the basketball and playing defense as a team--communicating (think Jason Clark mentioned they weren't communicating enough--yep--only the 32nd game of season-why would this happen?) results won't change.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,899
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:44:32 GMT -5
Post by EtomicB on Mar 19, 2011 11:44:32 GMT -5
I feel that JT3 needs to stop being a "system" coach and start being a coach.. I love JT3 and believe he is the right man for the job for a number of reasons. He just has to stop being so rigid.. These are the kinds of comments that just need to stop. There isn't a single coach in the country who doesn't have a system and who doesn't look for players who fit well into his own philosophy. Just because JT3's offensive system has a well-known name doesn't make him any more "rigid" than any other coach. Take, for example, Jonathan Wallace. How well does anyone think he would have done if he played under John Calipari in his DDM offense? Does that make Calipari "rigid"? Does that JWall a bad player? Not at all, but it probably explains why Cal wasn't recruiting JWall at the time - wouldn't have been a good fit. Of course every coach has a "system", actually a better word is "philosophy" on how he wants his teams to play and that coach will try his best to find players to fit that system. However if it turns out those players do not quite fit his "system or philosophy" he needs to change it for that team, he needs to find out what will make them successful.. It's not about him, it's about the TEAM, it's players and getting the best out of them. After CW got hurt adjustments should have been made right?.. What did that fool Brey do when Harangody got hurt last year? ND went to that "burn" offense and it worked well for them. As far as your John Wallace analogy I say it all depends on what players he has around him.. If he would have been on last years Kentucky team Calipari probably would have had him posting up in corners or on wings waiting for the other JWall to kick it out to him for wide open 3's all day long..
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 11:48:27 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 19, 2011 11:48:27 GMT -5
11 BE teams got in. Some were going to lose. I don't think 3 of 11 is bad at all, and two of those three probably shouldn't even have made the tourney based on the way they played toward the end of the season. Sure, the BE teams are beatable and have weaknesses. Are there some conferences that have teams that are unbeatable and without weakness? Where are these conferences that are better? what i'm saying is this: the Big East in basketball is not the SEC in football. quantity more than it is quality in the Big East. we were one of the top teams in the Big East, and to see a school like VCU just tear us to shreds tells you something. the best basketball isn't being played in the Big East.
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 12:02:06 GMT -5
Post by michaelgrahamfan on Mar 19, 2011 12:02:06 GMT -5
Not really a fair comment. The last month we could not beat ANYONE in the BE. Our ineptitude should not transfer to the quality of clearly one of the top conferences in the country.
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Mar 19, 2011 12:02:28 GMT -5
Post by michaelgrahamfan on Mar 19, 2011 12:02:28 GMT -5
BTW why was my GU DePaul of the East thread deleted?
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 12:09:41 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Mar 19, 2011 12:09:41 GMT -5
You look at the BE teams that got upset. St Johns. Missing bigman DJ Kennedy to season ending knee injury vs Gonzaga's bigs. Hoyas. Lost Chris Wright Louisivlle. Had injury problems all season. Last year Cuse wasn't the same after Onauku was injured last year.
Also, VCU is a very good team and they deserve credit. You could tell that the way they handled USC. The so called "experts" can't evaluate basketball.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -5
Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 19, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -5
We were the 8th seed. How would that make us 1 of the top teams? Where is the best ball being played then? 11 BE teams got in. Some were going to lose. I don't think 3 of 11 is bad at all, and two of those three probably shouldn't even have made the tourney based on the way they played toward the end of the season. Sure, the BE teams are beatable and have weaknesses. Are there some conferences that have teams that are unbeatable and without weakness? Where are these conferences that are better? what i'm saying is this: the Big East in basketball is not the SEC in football. quantity more than it is quality in the Big East. we were one of the top teams in the Big East, and to see a school like VCU just tear us to shreds tells you something. the best basketball isn't being played in the Big East.
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 12:19:57 GMT -5
Post by sirdis11 on Mar 19, 2011 12:19:57 GMT -5
11 BE teams got in. Some were going to lose. I don't think 3 of 11 is bad at all, and two of those three probably shouldn't even have made the tourney based on the way they played toward the end of the season. Sure, the BE teams are beatable and have weaknesses. Are there some conferences that have teams that are unbeatable and without weakness? Where are these conferences that are better? what i'm saying is this: the Big East in basketball is not the SEC in football. quantity more than it is quality in the Big East. we were one of the top teams in the Big East, and to see a school like VCU just tear us to shreds tells you something. the best basketball isn't being played in the Big East. the_way is right about the Big East this year. It is laughable that this is the year people are raving about us. There is barely a pro prospect in the entire conference. We went from having Wes Johnson, Monroe, Harangody, The two west virginia kids, dominque jones, scottie reynolds etc. to what . . . Kemba Walker and Ben Hansborough? There is a reason UConn who didn't even get a bye was able to win the BET - the teams are weak they just aren't weak relative to the rest of the country. I'm not one of those guys who thinks college basketball is down every year but if you watch any NBA at all how could you possibly be looking forward to this year's draft? The big east may be strong relative to the rest of the country but relative to other years in the big east the talent level is a joke. Clearly my rant doesn't attempt to answer the original question but, as a huge Big East fan for over thirty years, this is not some magical year for the conference - where is the individual talent?
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Why?
Mar 19, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on Mar 19, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -5
the_way is right about the Big East this year. It is laughable that this is the year people are raving about us. There is barely a pro prospect in the entire conference. We went from having Wes Johnson, Monroe, Harangody, The two west virginia kids, dominque jones, scottie reynolds etc. to what . . . Kemba Walker and Ben Hansborough? There is a reason UConn who didn't even get a bye was able to win the BET - the teams are weak they just aren't weak relative to the rest of the country. I'm not one of those guys who thinks college basketball is down every year but if you watch any NBA at all how could you possibly be looking forward to this year's draft? The big east may be strong relative to the rest of the country but relative to other years in the big east the talent level is a joke. Clearly my rant doesn't attempt to answer the original question but, as a huge Big East fan for over thirty years, this is not some magical year for the conference - where is the individual talent? The Big East lacks the dominant big man you need in the tournament which increases your margin of error when shots aren't falling/other team is hot from 3, in the tournament. Two, three years ago you have DeJaun Blair (Pitt), 7-3 Thabeet UConn, 7-2 Hibbert, then Greg Monroe, Syracuse (Anuaku), Samuels (Louisivlle).
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