Please prove me wrong - A Parallel

[SoCalHoya]

I've been worrying a lot lately about JT III. Not because I don't think he's a good coach, but because of some strange superstition I am harboring.

When Willingham was hired at ND, he was openly cheered for his vision, quiet manner and strong influence. He started out really strong, winning 8 or 9 straight and winning the hearts of the Notre Dame faithful. Then, his team seemed to collapse toward the end of the season. Next year was worse. You know the story.

Well, does anyone see any parallels between JTIII and TW?

Someone please humor me. Point out key differences between these men (aside from the self-evident, like we are GU not ND and this is b-ball not f-ball, thank you very much) and give me some hope for the years to come. I really like JTIII and hope that we are not on the same ND trajectory!

[SFHoya99]

Another parallel: they both tried/trying to implement an offensive system that was considerably more complex and possibly unsuited to their personnel.

Another parallel: their early wins could be termed lucky. ND had a lot of defensive touchdowns that year. We had a lot of close wins.

That said, I'm sure we can come up with many coaches who fit the same parallel but continued to be winners.

One difference is that JTIII has a very good recruiting class relative to the talent level he had (at least according to the gurus). For Notre Dame, Willignham's recruiting was relatively weak.

Another difference is that no one ever thought of Willingham as a good X's and O's coach; I think, at least on offense, III has proven himself there.

We should be prepared for some ups and downs. I expect a very good year next year, but it may not happen. And if it does, the next year may be a struggle, as players leave, etc.

[SirSaxa]

SoCalHoya said:

Well, does anyone see any parallels between JTIII and TW?

Other than the obvious though unstated one that both are African American head coaches... no, I don't see any parallels at all. I guess, they were both successful head coaches elsewhere... that would be a similarity, but one they share with the majority of other new Head coaches

ND is probably the toughest HC position in the country -- in terms of fan and media expectations, and hurdles to be overcome (academic standards for recruiting, no conference affiliation, first black coach ever at ND, and no prior history with the school in Ty's case). Willingham was not given the time to build his program and succeed in a bit way.. T3 will be.

T3 has a deep, longstanding relationship with GU. He clearly is NOT our first black HC. Recruiting academic standards are a lot more lenient. Expectations are nowhere near the ND Football level. You only need to recruit a few really good players to turn a basketball team around...in football, you need 20 great players every year to compete with Miami, FL, FSU, USC, OK, TX, etc.

Relax SoCAl. Don't worry about your superstitions.
My personal "vibe" receptors are very sensitive and highly reliable and they assure me that T3 is going to be one of the most successful coaches in college basketball!

[FromTheBeginning]

The only "mistake" III has made is winning too quickly. Anyone analyzing our schedule at the beginning of the year would have been thrilled to see it turn out the way it did. III is a victim of his own success. Be thankful for it. Better days are ahead.

[SoCalHoya]

The "winning too quickly" thing is what Willingham did! But I thank you all for your kind words of comfort.

I also agree Willingham did not get enough time at ND. They are a very impatient fan base. My wife (ND grad) admits that alumni expect a nat'l championship once every 4 years. (To highlight how weird this is, I am always quick to point out that they have not had one in more than 17) I think Willingham would have brought ND back to competitiveness over a few more years. I guess we'll never know for sure.

Anyway, yes, there are other parallels b/t III and W. Stanford and Princeton, GU and ND.

Hopefully, that's where the similarities end!

[kghoya]

willingham was about .500 at stanford...with some bad years

[lichoya68]

NO PARELLELL we are on our way up ..we are back.. go jy3 go hoyas ...beat the hall ..one by one ....and its now REALLY important ..for pride ..for wins.. for the team.. and for us hoya fans... go hoyas... we are georgetown.. .. ;D ;D ;D

[StoneColdHoya]

Willingham was not ND's first choice. He was picked up because they had to move quickly after the George O'Leary fiasco. If they had done their homework, they probably would've noted that Willingham was not a good coach in a situation where he was hampered by a lack of athletic scholarships and a conference more focused on academic achievement than athletic achievement. He was the football coach at Stanford in the PAC-10, not the basketball coach at Princeton in the Ivy League. Willingham seemed to think he could go to Notre Dame and win as much as he did at Stanford and people would be happy...wrong.

JT III was our first choice and, thankfully, our only choice. He was a good basketball coach in a situation where he really could never do any better than winning the Ivy League title and scaring a few opponents in the Dance. Now, he's in a situation where he's in the premier basketball conference in the country, he's got a great basketball tradition to feed off of, and he clearly understands the pressure of the situation and what's expected of him.

No parallel's....JTIII is not Tyrone Willingham...thankfully.

[FormerHoya]

Man, I hope aggypryd doesn't get ahold of this thread (see horrible debates in football thread). But the biggest difference is that JTIII (from everything I've heard thus far) is willing to work extremely hard, especially from the recruiting angle, to turn around a program that he is dedicated to turning around. He doesn't see this as a necessary step to becoming and NFL... wait, sorry, NBA head coach.

[SirSaxa]

KGHoya said:

willingham was about .500 at stanford...with some bad years

HE also took over a team that had gone
4-7
3-7-1
in the two years PRIOR to his arrival
and over his seven seasons, the team went
44-36-1

He also got Stanford back to the ROSE BOWL for the first time in almost 30 years. Something that neither Bill Walsh nor Dennis Green was able to do.

And no one ever accused Stanford of being a football factory, or bending the rules to bring in "the beef". Yet they still compete in one of the most competitive football conferences in the country.

Willingham did an excellent job at Stanford.

[TigerHoya]

StoneColdHoya said:

Willingham was not ND's first choice.

...

JT III was our first choice and, thankfully, our only choice.

I'm sure this was all hashed out last year when I wasn't active on this board, but I'd heard from multiple places Dawkins said no or indicated he would and then it went to JTIII.

I'm sure I'll get all the flames I deserve if I'm way off-base on this one.

[JimmyHoya]

Aww nuts, you beat me to making the thread I had been waiting to make for months now...

In any case, the Pitt win, the near upset of UConn and ND win SCREAMED Willingham II at me, but I was about to argue with the results, y'know?

But here's to JT3, the anti-Ty Willingham succeeding next year and beyond!

[Cambridge]

I'm not sure if Dawkins was ever really offered, but he did make it fairly clear that he didn't want to go anywhere and basically took himself out of the process.

Whether that means he "didn't want to coach anywhere but Duke, so I don't want to interview" or that he "would coach anywhere but a sunken program like GU" well, that I don't know.

It is clear that JTIII seems to have used some leverage to get committments about improved resources in his negotions and that's what caused much of the delay in the announcement. Whether that's because he knew he was the first choice...or because he knew no other big time coach would take the job (see Dawkins), I have no idea.

Then again, who knows anything? The whole process was shrouded in complete mystery.

[EasyEd]

Have we seen any results from the commitment for improved resources?

[Cambridge]

I think so far there have been some minor things:

1) Improved sports marketing -- i.e. showing a committment to getting fans involved (students and locals). The "shrinking" of MCI has definitely been a creative short-term solution to a big problem. Not to mention commercials on the radio, letters to fans, newsletters to donors, etc.

2) Minor renovation of the offices and some of the facilities in McDonough. I heard this is little more than a new paint job and some furniture, but its a start.

I'm not going to say these things are huge, but it's all a step in the right direction and I hope JTIII keeps the pressure on to get more of the things he asked for.

[SirSaxa]

TigerHoya said:

I'm sure this was all hashed out last year when I wasn't active on this board, but I'd heard from multiple places Dawkins said no or indicated he would and then it went to JTIII.

I'm sure I'll get all the flames I deserve if I'm way off-base on this one.

One of the stated criteria of the two man search "committee" GU established was the new coach needed to have HC experience.
Maybe that came out after the fact.
But apparently that was the case.
So no, Dawkins would not have been considered.
"sitting next to a HOF coach for X years is no assurance of being a successful HC oneself" -- or something to that effect. It applied to Esh and would apply to Dawkins too.

At any rate, I think most of us are pretty happy with T3 at this point

[kghoya]

SirSaxa said:

HE also took over a team that had gone
4-7
3-7-1
in the two years PRIOR to his arrival
and over his seven seasons, the team went
44-36-1

He also got Stanford back to the ROSE BOWL for the first time in almost 30 years. Something that neither Bill Walsh nor Dennis Green was able to do.

And no one ever accused Stanford of being a football factory, or bending the rules to bring in "the beef". Yet they still compete in one of the most competitive football conferences in the country.

Willingham did an excellent job at Stanford.

sorry but these records dont knock my socks off

7-4-1
7-5-0
5-6-0
3-8-0
8-4-0
5-6-0
9-3-0

he had one really good year and one really bad year...the rest were right around .500...thats the kind of coach he is...