SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 17:58:10 GMT -5
@ Professor, But he did that against Henry, Jules, and Nate, everyone....We just really need to get tougher down low They were able to do that because you only have one big out there. There's no help. If someone blows by or outmuscles Hollis or Bennimon, then the Big has to go cover for that mistake and ends up picking up the foul or getting scored on. You have to have two bigs out there (Vaugn, Sims, Lubick, Moses), especially since we are small to begin with with the 3 guard offense (freeman, wright, clark). Disagree, Professor. Almost all of those points down low were one on one low post plays against our center (Julian or Henry). The PF doesn't matter -- because we're not doubling down. He's guarding someone who has left the paint to create the one on one. For most of the game they scored at will or had the foul called against us. Some of our poor D was probably the early fouls -- Henry fouled out in like 15 minutes -- but some was just good play by Freeland and Melvin. They stopped calling the ticky tack stuff late and suddenly Sims was stopping them left and right. But I don't know how you can blame Benimon or Hollis. It's not liek Julian was helping off his man -- he was the primary defender in a one on one situation. He had no help, but that's a decision, not the fact that we aren't playing a PF. And Hollis has been pretty strong on the boards. Not a beast, but he's held his own.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 18:02:20 GMT -5
I would have liked to see what Moses could have done to stop their inside presence today. We were letting them get too many second chance points by getting OR and loose balls. We will have to play better Monday at SJU or else we will be 1-2. They had 17 offensive rebounds to our 11 and outrebounded us by 3. That's a direct results of a 4 guard/one big defense and 5 guard/swingman defense (when Bennimon was at center). They outrebounded us, but not by much. And this is an Oliver Purnell team. Not to say we couldn't improve, but I don't get the blind defense of Julian. He got hurt by the officials early when he picked up some ticky tack fouls, but he also just got continually beat one on one. He's not a strong interior defender. Never has been. He did have a nice game on the boards, though. I have no real objection to playing a PF -- love to see Lubick there or slide over Vaughn and play Sims and Moses more, but this game had little to do with no PF. They just outplayed our centers.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 18:05:36 GMT -5
I would have liked to see what Moses could have done to stop their inside presence today. We were letting them get too many second chance points by getting OR and loose balls. We will have to play better Monday at SJU or else we will be 1-2. What's the shot that we have a good defense by the end of the year? I think in terms of things that could happen -- Henry Sims stops fouling, playing more minutes and is a presence. Perimeter players tighten up and we swarm down low. Moses becomes our presence in the middle. I think the last is pretty unlikely, but man, when you don't have a lot of other options, it seems like it may be worth a shot.
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Post by hoya81 on Jan 1, 2011 18:05:50 GMT -5
Julian had 10 rebounds in 24 minutes. Henry had 7 in 11. Most of DePaul's second chances came when Julian not Henry was in the game. Our inside D was much better when Henry came in with 4 fouls for Julian. They didn't score a basket for over 5 minutes. It couldn't have been more noticeable.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 18:10:34 GMT -5
Strange to see so many people calling for benching Jason, one of the true offensive sparks on the court today. He will be our prime player next year and needs to play to work out the problems he's having on defense and outside shot. Who among Lubick, Sims, Jerrelle, Vee, Markel, etc. could have gotten 21 points for us, most down the stretch of a fairly close game? It's not all about scoring and points Ed. It was fine when Jason was botching defensive assignments when he was knocking down 3's but now.... he needs to sit more. I think the issue is that the game may not have been fairly close had we been playing a bigger line-up with everyone in their natural positions from the start. I don't think anyone's advocating keeping Jason out of the end of games, just that we would be better if we started with a different line-up or played a different line-up more frequently. I'm sorry, but DePaul scored like 90% of its points by its post players in the post. How was Jason a huge defensive issue today?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 18:27:05 GMT -5
I realize I'm posting like nine times in a row because I'm on tape delay so I will try to consolidate my thoughts: - I'm all for the "let's play a PF" and move Hollis or Jason to the bench crew. But not because Hollis hasn't rebounded -- his defensive rebounding % is THIRD on the team behind Julian and Hank, and actually ahead of Nate and within shouting distance of #1 and #2.
In other words, Hollis has not been an issue on the boards, and playing Nate isn't necessarily going to improve the rebounding.
What it might do is to add some offense to the second team and balance when we have shooters in. Today, when Markel and Nate were in, the offense just sputtered.
- One solution that's not likely to work is Julian and Henry side by side. Forget if they are offensively comfortable together (especially since one would likely have to play on the perimeter) but when we play the 85% of the BE who plays a quick, undersized PF who can shoot a bit from the perimeter, who's guarding them?
Oh, and how about this: Julian Vaughn, 24 minutes, 4 PF; Henry Sims, 11 minutes, 5 PF. We had Benimon playing center because neither guy can stay on the floor. Unless you're that confident in Moses, how much time is Benimon playing at center if you are playing them side by side?
- Julian got absolutely abused today, but I will give Henry and him a bit of a pass. The officials were calling everything a foul and then both had to play timid because of foul trouble. It explains a bit. And Freeland and Melvin were pretty hot, too.
- Nice game from Austin.
- Chris and Jason both made great adjustments when they were cold early. It hurts this team when they aren't hitting from outside -- a cold Chris Wright is especially scary -- but you can't blame their decision-making or effort levels. Clark in particular is getting too much crap for this game.
- DePaul is more talented than people want to admit and Oliver Purnell a better coach. I did not expect the boards to be this close against a coach who's offensive strategy has generally been to throw the ball up and got get it.
- Anyone think Markel's ready to take large amounts of minutes from Chris now? How about Nate and whomever? There's a reason the +/- are as they are. They are freshmen. Great futures, but they aren't ready to eat into people's minutes further, I don't think.
- How do you fix the defense? I'm not opposed to going to a more traditional lineup; in fact I'm a huge fan. But this game wasn't as big a demonstrator of that, for me. I think Henry needs to find more minutes (and not foul himself out), and Moses needs to get more of a shot. I think moving Hollis to the 3 would actually have more of an effect than putting in a real PF -- who is likely Nate, who as a frosh is not a good defender yet.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jan 1, 2011 18:33:48 GMT -5
What's the shot that we have a good defense by the end of the year? I think in terms of things that could happen -- Henry Sims stops fouling, playing more minutes and is a presence. Perimeter players tighten up and we swarm down low. Moses becomes our presence in the middle. I think the last is pretty unlikely, but man, when you don't have a lot of other options, it seems like it may be worth a shot. Maybe more zone defense? I doubt it would work, bu it's time to start taking some chances and changing things around on defense. I think it's pretty clear at this point that we can not hope for natural improvement.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 1, 2011 18:36:49 GMT -5
It's not all about scoring and points Ed. It was fine when Jason was botching defensive assignments when he was knocking down 3's but now.... he needs to sit more. I think the issue is that the game may not have been fairly close had we been playing a bigger line-up with everyone in their natural positions from the start. I don't think anyone's advocating keeping Jason out of the end of games, just that we would be better if we started with a different line-up or played a different line-up more frequently. I'm sorry, but DePaul scored like 90% of its points by its post players in the post. How was Jason a huge defensive issue today? I'm talking about the last two seasons, not just today. He consistently loses his man on defense and plays horrible position defense. Today DePaul's guards were not good enough to take advantage but the mistakes were still there. And even today he got blown by by his defender at least once for an easy basket. It's maddening to watch and I don't see how it will get fixed if III keeps him in the game mistake after mistake when almost every other player ,including Chris and Austin, get pulled after blown defensive assignments.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 18:39:06 GMT -5
It is time to start taking some chances.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 1, 2011 18:47:28 GMT -5
[/li][li] Chris and Jason both made great adjustments when they were cold early. It hurts this team when they aren't hitting from outside -- a cold Chris Wright is especially scary -- but you can't blame their decision-making or effort levels. Clark in particular is getting too much crap for this game. [/list][/quote] But this is what you are missing SF. The complaints aren't just about this game. It is about problems and plays throughout the season and last year that were kind of forgivable when we was hitting from outside, but need to be fixed now. We are not a better team without Clark on the floor, thats not what I'm saying. But we need to be more willing to take Clark off the floor when he is playing badly defensively and making dumb plays on offense(his turnovers today and that pass to Chris's back on a fast break). I think we all would like to see Hollis get a chance to play the three, on offense and defense, when Jason's shot is as off as it's been.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 1, 2011 18:47:49 GMT -5
I realize I'm posting like nine times in a row because I'm on tape delay so I will try to consolidate my thoughts: - I'm all for the "let's play a PF" and move Hollis or Jason to the bench crew. But not because Hollis hasn't rebounded -- his defensive rebounding % is THIRD on the team behind Julian and Hank, and actually ahead of Nate and within shouting distance of #1 and #2.
In other words, Hollis has not been an issue on the boards, and playing Nate isn't necessarily going to improve the rebounding.
This is a deceptive stat. Considering he's getting very consistent minutes at power forward his rebounding stats are not good for a power forward. He's playing the same minutes as Vaugh and getting 2 rebounds less as a power forward. When Lubick is in the game he seals off defenders and also gets alot of tap/vollebally tips which are collected by another Hoyas. (which means Lubick doesn't get stat credit) If Lubick, Sims or Moses played the same consistent minutes their rebounding numbers would be much higher. If you watch the games he can't box out the bigger guys, and he gets pushed around and backed down by power forwards and centers. He's been a huge defensive liability which requires the center to move over to help up (and pick up a foul or leave his man).
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 1, 2011 19:00:55 GMT -5
One, you have no idea what Moses' rebounding numbers would be, because, like me, you've seen him play about six minutes.
Two, Hollis' rebounding numbers are about average for a PF. And they are better than Lubick's. I see Lubick's tips but those are the kind of things that people give way too much credit for.
Three, where does consistent minutes come in? Hollis doesn't play that much more than Lubick or Sims. There's absolutely no evidence more minutes improve someone's per rate stats -- in fact, all factual history points a bit to the OPPOSITE -- but either way, an extra four minutes isn't going to shoot their rebounding rates through the roof.
Four, Vaughn and Sims are better rebounders than Hollis. I never said otherwise. But they still aren't playing 40 mpg right now, mostly due to foul trouble. If they are playing together, who else is playing?
Five, Hollis doesn't get his rebounds traditionally. But he's tall, athletic and he jumps well. He fights hard and works for them. And he gets his boards -- 18.5% DReb % on the year. Our PF rarely get O rebounds, partially because of the offense. But that D Rebounding rate is better than Pat Jr. ever did or Jeff Green had in 2007.
Like I said, I've been pro-traditional lineup. But Hollis has held his own. And he had nothing to do with Vaughn getting beat repeatedly down low today. And he's perfectly passable at PF against DePaul. It's UConn or Syracuse where we're in trouble with him at PF.
But playing Henry and Julian together seems impractical. Playing Nate there or forcing Moses into more time seem more practical but not as enticing.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:32:59 GMT -5
Just back from the game. In that last 8-0 spurt Sims was the difference maker. He blocked and altered shots and grabbed rebounds. I would start him at center, move Julian back to the 4 and see if he can play any better. If not, start Lubick. Would start Hollis at the 3, and sit Jason down until he stops playing like a freshman. Despite his 21, he was too big a liabilty on defense and ball protection, and he can't hit a shot from behind the arc . . . at the moment anyway. I agree with this completely. Jason needs to sit until he starts playing defense and a change of line-up would be beneficial I think. At the very least start playing this line-up more. not making any excuses but Jason has been sick and is feeling a little better, he gathered himself in the 2nd half and went to the cup which he should always do when he sees his shot not falling, once he completely feels better 100% you will the best of Jason. I think we all know this or should know. Let's those kids fight through it, I agree to some extent if a player is not playing well sit him down so get his thoughts together and come back in the game and provide...
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 1, 2011 19:34:02 GMT -5
One, you have no idea what Moses' rebounding numbers would be, because, like me, you've seen him play about six minutes. Two, Hollis' rebounding numbers are about average for a PF. And they are better than Lubick's. I see Lubick's tips but those are the kind of things that people give way too much credit for. Three, where does consistent minutes come in? Hollis doesn't play that much more than Lubick or Sims. There's absolutely no evidence more minutes improve someone's per rate stats -- in fact, all factual history points a bit to the OPPOSITE -- but either way, an extra four minutes isn't going to shoot their rebounding rates through the roof. Four, Vaughn and Sims are better rebounders than Hollis. I never said otherwise. But they still aren't playing 40 mpg right now, mostly due to foul trouble. If they are playing together, who else is playing? Five, Hollis doesn't get his rebounds traditionally. But he's tall, athletic and he jumps well. He fights hard and works for them. And he gets his boards -- 18.5% DReb % on the year. Our PF rarely get O rebounds, partially because of the offense. But that D Rebounding rate is better than Pat Jr. ever did or Jeff Green had in 2007. Like I said, I've been pro-traditional lineup. But Hollis has held his own. And he had nothing to do with Vaughn getting beat repeatedly down low today. And he's perfectly passable at PF against DePaul. It's UConn or Syracuse where we're in trouble with him at PF. But playing Henry and Julian together seems impractical. Playing Nate there or forcing Moses into more time seem more practical but not as enticing. I disagree. Hollis has been a liability defensively, especially interior defense, and rebounding wise. Overall numbers aren't bad because we've played some easy teams, but his rebounding numbers are still not good for a power forward. Duke Mason Plumlee 7.5 rpg, Kyle Singler 5.6 rpg (as a small forward), Miles Plumlee 5.0 rpg with only 18 minutes a game. UConn, Oriaki is getting 8.6 rpg, Roscoe Smith 6.0. Syracuse, Rick Jackson 12.2 rpg, Joseph 5.1, the freshman Keita 4.8 in limited minutes. Hollis plays consistent minutes. He gets starter mintues at the beginning of the game and again after the half. Lubick's minutes have been very erratic. Some games he plays alot and some games he plays very little and it has little to do with foul trouble. You have 4 bigs. Even if Moses doesn't play. You should be able to rotate Lubick, Vaughn, Simms among the C and PF spot even with foul trouble. That's not happening. I see little benefit in having Hollis at PF. On the starting line up he's the 4th or 5th scoring option anyway, so his strength, his 3pt and scoring ability is not utilized while his defensive and rebounding liabilities at power forward are a problem.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:34:53 GMT -5
Strange to see so many people calling for benching Jason, one of the true offensive sparks on the court today. He will be our prime player next year and needs to play to work out the problems he's having on defense and outside shot. Who among Lubick, Sims, Jerrelle, Vee, Markel, etc. could have gotten 21 points for us, most down the stretch of a fairly close game? I WOULD LOVE TO SHAKE YOUR HAND! THAT WAS A GREAT COMMENT!!! GO HOYAS!
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:38:55 GMT -5
While Jason was 0-3 from 3 and had 4 TO's, he was 9-12 from 2, which is quite effective. He took the ball to the hole really well. As well, while I agree his defense could have been better, overall it was not as bad as many portray it. Just about everyone's defense could have been better today. Jason and Chris will shoot the ball better than they have the last couple of games. They've shown that they can shoot. Sometimes, shots just don't fall. Everyone could have played better today. I'll take a BE win, no matter how ugly, any day. We should be very thankful that our Hoyas finally figured out if your shot is not falling get to the cup and they did that's why Jason was 9-12 from 2...people talking about Chris Wright being in a shooting slump, well, I'm here to tell ya, that everything is for a reason. He went to the cup and scored most of his 17 pts. inside...I think this work out well and was great for the Hoyas to now know, "hey when my shot is not falling get my ass to the cup", LOL!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 1, 2011 19:45:04 GMT -5
"Almost all of those points down low were one on one low post plays against our center (Julian or Henry). The PF doesn't matter -- because we're not doubling down. He's guarding someone who has left the paint to create the one on one." Agree.
Also, just because some of you say Clark is a bad defender does not make it so. In my view he is still the best backcourt defender we have in the starting lineup. He's not a great defender but neither are Chris or Austin. They are all average defenders but have you noticed it's Jason who is usually assigned to cover the opponents' major backcourt scorer? Jason gets beaten because he's usually covering the main threat while Chris and Austin cover the second or third threat. This is not always but it is more often than not. Jason is also the best rebounder of the three and is second best in most offensive stats. It would be a big mistake to take Jason out of the starting lineup and I don't expect that to happen.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:46:15 GMT -5
You guys are all nuts! Julian has always been the 5. Henry and Julian are both only comfortable at the 5 right now. There was an impressive number of people at the game today. easily over 10,000. But the crowd did not take this game seriously, so the team didn't either no one was cheering until halfway through the second half when the crowd realized of crap we could actually lose this game. Once we brought the noise it was game over. I blame the silent crowd for our lack out preparedness in this game. They should know better, but it's gotta be hard to get pumped up in a crypt. It was sloppy I trust we can tighten it up and be better. Very good to see our big 3 put the ball on the deck and take it the whole to get points. That's what they need to do. I don't know why everyone was upset about Julian's play. They scored a lot but they were all banked in jump hooks. What is he supposed to do to stop that. He played good positional defense and rebounded the ball. He almost had a double double he just needed one more point. Julian played fine. We played sloppy and it was unacceptable to play that poorly and turn the ball over that much. Gotta grab the ball gave them 4 team offensive reboudns by failign to grab the ball. you take away those 4 and we're even on the boards. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. We're fine. We're going to continue to be fine. Let's not get crazy. hahaha Let's me shake your hand young grasshoppa you sound like me...it was a great game which made our team play tough and figure it out...also it gave the Hoyas a chance to say themselve, "man, we don't have to always shoot the 3 or if my shot is not falling, get to the cup"...huh Since? LOL, I meant to speak to you the other game man, my bad, you are the man...GH!
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:48:55 GMT -5
If Greg and Vaughn could play together so can Henry and Vaughn and thats all I'm saying. Why III hasn't tried to play them together this season I will never understand. Yup they compliment each other WELL ;D
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Jan 1, 2011 19:53:56 GMT -5
No matter it's ONE GAME AT A TIME! ONE STEP AT A TIME! WE ARE...
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