Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 24, 2010 12:41:08 GMT -5
I think Memphis is talented (i.e., athletic), as they showed in the first half. They got inside for a couple of dunks, they hit some 3s, which made me worry, until JTIII reorganized the D and those defensive stops were keys to the game, as our offense took over and we coasted in the 2nd half.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 24, 2010 13:15:22 GMT -5
Jason Clark was quiet--but thought he had a great defensive game--and was robbed of some minutes with 2 steals being called fouls. I think one of the reasons the defense was so improved the second half was partially because Jason had to sit with fouls. He just has a tendency to play defense with his hands and not his feet at times, which leads to complete team break downs defensively when he gets beat. All the Hoya guards are guilty of this, but I've noticed Jason is particularly prone to it, and he does a bad job of recovering and rotating once he gets beat. He definitely played better defense in the second half as well, but those fouls were all caused by his ball watching instead of feet moving. He's just so frustrating to watch defensively, because he has the potential but needs to do the work. sleepy Thats a good observation that others have pointed out also. JC is fast and has long arms but is not quick laterally. He gets right in the players face, but often times the offensive guy beats him on the move to the basket. Hernandez of Temple repeatedly beat him off the dribble and this caused Vaughn,Sims,Thompson and Nate to try to help which meant their man was open. Unless the man he is covering is Stehon Curry-like, he needs to back off a little and stay in front of his man so the rest of the defense is not compromised.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 24, 2010 15:08:27 GMT -5
This win actually made me get through a game without complaining even once about those god awful black uniforms. The uniforms led me to ask a question - does the GU basketball vault contain kente cloth samples to go with all of the other tokens of our rich GU basketball tradition? I'm sure you bought one or one of your thoughtful friends bought you one so you'll find out when you unwrap it tomorrow!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 24, 2010 15:32:00 GMT -5
Quote from Wesley Witherspoon on twitter:
@spoonasworld11: WE GOT BACK DOORED TONIGHT LIKE BROKE BACK MOUNTAIN
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 24, 2010 15:34:30 GMT -5
Arguably our biggest win so far this season (along with Mizzou) . . . very possibly our best win so far this season?
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 24, 2010 15:35:47 GMT -5
Memphis also really shot themselves in the foot on unforced turnovers.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 24, 2010 15:43:55 GMT -5
It's a C+ performance to me -- I think we played slightly above OUR (their) average. I think Memphis played average, aside from Austin, really. Perhaps my view of our upside is higher, but I think we played one half of defense, we didn't rebound well, etc. Maybe I'm being too tough, but my general impression is that we can still play a lot better. (And part of this is that Memphis looked like an AWFUL defensive team that didn't shoot well in the second half). I kinda agree with this. It was a B, or B- performance.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 24, 2010 16:39:08 GMT -5
It's a C+ performance to me -- I think we played slightly above OUR (their) average. I think Memphis played average, aside from Austin, really. Perhaps my view of our upside is higher, but I think we played one half of defense, we didn't rebound well, etc. Maybe I'm being too tough, but my general impression is that we can still play a lot better. (And part of this is that Memphis looked like an AWFUL defensive team that didn't shoot well in the second half). I tried, but I cannot let this one go. GU put the largest margin of defeat on a team ever in their building (ok only 6 years of history, but still) and the team is not a cupcake, it cannot be a C+ performance. Other than some FTs and defensive sets what else could the Hoyas have done better? The offense was completely locked in, we shot 57% not because we were hitting jumpshots either. We did not shoot a ton of threes or anything else that would be considered unusual to put up 86 on the road. I would say every article I have read about the game has lauded the Hoyas as much better than expected and a cold-blooded machine on offense. I just cannot envision what a result would be if they played two grades better in a game. I mean what would that look like? No turnovers, no missed FTs, no missed rebounds, we shoot 75% from the field? When GU is up 20 points and Memphis gets some uncontested O boards and shots and it affects the final stats, should that count toward any critique? Of course not. Watching the game, this was outright domination on another team's court. No way it is a C+, just no way. Even JT3 had almost nothing negative to say in postgame comments, that says it all.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 24, 2010 17:20:31 GMT -5
It's a C+ performance to me -- I think we played slightly above OUR (their) average. I think Memphis played average, aside from Austin, really. Perhaps my view of our upside is higher, but I think we played one half of defense, we didn't rebound well, etc. Maybe I'm being too tough, but my general impression is that we can still play a lot better. (And part of this is that Memphis looked like an AWFUL defensive team that didn't shoot well in the second half). I tried, but I cannot let this one go. GU put the largest margin of defeat on a team ever in their building (ok only 6 years of history, but still) and the team is not a cupcake, it cannot be a C+ performance. Other than some FTs and defensive sets what else could the Hoyas have done better? The offense was completely locked in, we shot 57% not because we were hitting jumpshots either. We did not shoot a ton of threes or anything else that would be considered unusual to put up 86 on the road. I would say every article I have read about the game has lauded the Hoyas as much better than expected and a cold-blooded machine on offense. I just cannot envision what a result would be if they played two grades better in a game. I mean what would that look like? No turnovers, no missed FTs, no missed rebounds, we shoot 75% from the field? When GU is up 20 points and Memphis gets some uncontested O boards and shots and it affects the final stats, should that count toward any critique? Of course not. Watching the game, this was outright domination on another team's court. No way it is a C+, just no way. Even JT3 had almost nothing negative to say in postgame comments, that says it all. Memphis didnt get its O boards when we were up twenty at all. Not sure where you are getting that. They blitzed us in the boards early. Here's why its a C+ for me despite the result: Memphis did not play well at all. You point out some great offense for us. I saw a lot of atrocious D. I suppose we could argue about what caused what -- but I simply thought we brought more or less our avrrage game on offense. Now our average game is very, very good, but its our C game. I give us a higher grade on O bc Austin was unconscious. Is that an A performance for Seton Hall? Sure. For us? C+/B-. Memphis' youth just was terrible against an offense like ours. As for our D, our rebounding was terrible in the first half. And we gave up 36 pts. In the second half, we stopped them from doing some of their stuff, but Pastner an d team never reacted. They reverted to long jumpers after we took their first option away. Im skeptical cuse reacts the same way. First half D was a D, second half a B. I simply think we can play much better. I don't think Memphis played very well. I dont know if our margin would get that higher, but an A performance would beat Memphis that badly despite a better performance from them.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 24, 2010 17:22:54 GMT -5
And weve seen offensive A games before -- the shoot 70% against Final Four teams.
We shot 4% over our average -- and not really bc we shot a lot of 2s -- against a mediocre defensive team at best. I guess I think this offensive performance is close to the baseline.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 24, 2010 17:41:21 GMT -5
While you specific points for improvement are well-taken, you can't downplay the result given the very hostile and loud environment of the FedEx forum. While I agree that Memphis didn't play very well, I can't agree with a C+ overall grade. Much close to a B+.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 24, 2010 18:26:21 GMT -5
And weve seen offensive A games before -- the shoot 70% against Final Four teams. We shot 4% over our average -- and not really bc we shot a lot of 2s -- against a mediocre defensive team at best. I guess I think this offensive performance is close to the baseline. It's an interesting question that gets to how you evaluate a team/player/performance. I kind of like the 1-10 player rating system that's popular in soccer. In that system, 5 is supposed to be the baseline--if you have a regular, average game--good but not great, that's a 5. Nobody should ever get a 10 unless it's something transcendent and memorable. Most grades cluster between 4 and 7. So SF's C+ performance grade would be about a 5.5 or 6 overall. I'd be a little more generous and say a 7/10...can't go that much higher IMO b/c the defense in the first half left something to be desired. One thought (esp. since the broadcaster's used this theme last night): if our baseline performance is 52% shooting...which if I heard correctly was second in the country...that's a tough grading curve to make that a basis for a C+ For me, I think a good way is to give a grade for offense and defense and each half--so four grades overall--as your guide. If you're gonna get a 10 (or even a 8.5-9.5) that means you've brought it from the opening tip. The unambiguous "10" that comes to mind--the offense in the first half of the 2006 Duke game.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Dec 24, 2010 19:10:50 GMT -5
We can play better. I'm not sure about *much* better. That would have to assume that we do all the things we did well against Memphis with no slippage, plus do several other things that well. In my book, that's not called "better" but "perfectly." I don't need perfection to give a high grade.
More realistic would be that we rebounded better, and defended better in the first half, but that Julian and Jerrelle don't play quite as well. Or that Austin gets 18 instead of 24. I'm giving us an A-.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 24, 2010 20:44:10 GMT -5
first half MAYBE agree with a C+ however the second half the hoya destroya o and d clicking on all cylinders as the memphis paper said if there are eight teams better than georgetown we certainly dont want them on our schedule.. so second half to me A++ one of our best halfs of the seaoson not perfect but pretty darn good.. go hoyas beat nd DEFEND THE THREE AND THE FOUR TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ps aint good in math but i think an A++ and a C+ average out to a 3.75 which aint too shabby but room to improve yup room to improve GO HOYAS
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Post by newporthoya on Dec 24, 2010 21:06:36 GMT -5
Does GTown's D not get any credit for how poorly Memphis played? No way was this a C or C- performance. Memphis crashed the boards hard and our D was average in the 1st half but until the last 2 mins(when the outcome was nolonger in question) our D was good in the 2nd half. You guys are too hard on our players...............
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 24, 2010 21:34:03 GMT -5
I want to give credit where credit is due. Memphis played horribly in the 2nd half because they couldn't keep up with our offense, plus our defense tightened up. It's not that they're bad; we made them bad. Our offense was so efficient from all over that we overwhelmed a bunch of typical frosh McD's not getting their way and who realized that we were getting farther and farther away. We broke their will. You could see them shooting desperation 3s. Grade: B for Brokeback.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Dec 24, 2010 21:43:18 GMT -5
Hoyas couldn't stop dribble penny, so III went to a 2/3 zone and chasing man. As someone mentioned, made adjustments and switched things up and it confused a young, wild team.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 24, 2010 22:35:26 GMT -5
Hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I just want to clarify that if we're grading relative to any average team -- we got an A+.
But if we're grading on what our team's average is -- I think this team could really be even better.
Anyway, stupid argument, and Merry Christmas Everyone!
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ahoya2
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by ahoya2 on Dec 24, 2010 23:00:03 GMT -5
Fiance and I ust back to DC from the FedEx Forum.
Couple of comments. Worst seat ever at an away game. There were probably 8-10 Hoya fans in the rafters. All blue for Memphis and no organized activity from a local club( if one would be allowed in Memphis) Treated well unlike away games at Philly, Nova or Syracuse. Memphis had everything going for it except the experience to beat a team with three tough guards.
Freeman was truly amazing.
Vaughn was superb. He had four blocks but many other forced, erratic attempts when he challenged.
One weakness is our rebounding( which did improve dramatically in the second half. ) Aside from Vaughan and Benimon( excellent off the bench) we were getting pushed around a lot. lubick and Sims had a tough time with their quickness and athleticism.
Depth was impressive.
The only down side was the regresson of Chris Wright from a premiere point guard to a guy who drove like he thought he was back in HS. More turnovers than assists and he was lucky the TO didn't approach double digits as some of his drives were just blocked or a loose ball picked up underneath by a teammate.
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ahoya2
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Post by ahoya2 on Dec 24, 2010 23:13:33 GMT -5
All in all, an impressive win in a hostile arena against a team with great athletes. In addition, had the best barbeque ever at the Rendezvous before the game and didn't experience an Elvis sighting. Merry Christmas to all. On to the BE
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