TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 9, 2010 12:28:23 GMT -5
Nah ... I'm not even going to go there. Like I said, Kerwin Bell is going to be in the same situation. In case you don't know, Kerwin is a Gator folk hero. He went from 3rd string walk on to quarterback of a team that went 9-1-1 in back to back seasons, and was NYTimes National Champion in '84. He then went on to have a cup of coffee in the NFL and to lead his CFL team to the the Title. Then he went into coaching and almost immediately turned a team that was 2-9 into state champs. After a few years there, he landed the job at Jacksonville University. This past year he was 11-1 with them. The point is he is an up-and-comer who has been a success everywhere he has been. PLUS he has tremendous Gator ties. The point in this is that neither he nor Strong are likely to get a serious look because they both lack D1 head coaching experience. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I am pointing out that it has nothing to do with race. Yup. Bell has never been a head coach in D-1, which is the exact same thing as Strong lack of "coaching experience," otherwise known as one less year as a head coach than Dan Mullen, who is the front runner for the job. I'm sure that "one extra year" as head coach is the only reason Mullen is the front runner and Strong isn't going to get a look.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 9, 2010 17:35:36 GMT -5
TBird, I'm not arguing with your suggestion that Strong would be a good candidate. I'm just saying that Florida, of all schools, isn't going to play the race card. In fact, Florida is one of the more progressive schools in that regard. We're "in" the southeast, but much less like your Bama and Mississippi schools than you might think.
As for Strong vs. Mullen, they both have something to offer. You're right in that Mullen's experience isn't dramatically different. He has been in the SEC for 2 years as a HC instead of the Big East for 1.
But if it came down to those two choices only, I think Mullen would be the choice, not because he is white but because he is an offensive coach. Foley hasn't said much, but he has strongly hinted at a wish to hire a coach with a strong offensive background. Like I've said all along, personally, I think a staff with Strong as the HC, Shannon as DC and Bell as OC would be very, very impressive. But please don't try to play some race card here. If so, trust me, you've got the wrong guy and school.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Edit: here are some quotes from players that were listed on a premium site, so I can't link to it:
FYI: I didn't realize links from rival sites were not allowed - so my previous thread was deleted. Here's the text from that story without the link.....
Regarding everyone's comments from the first thread about the freshman leaving - I think this is just a gut reaction and think they will stay put at least until they see who the new HBC will be...
"We were told we had a team meeting today, but we thought it was regarding the bowl game. That was our mindset that we are going to talk about the bowl game.
"When we showed up the only coach that was there was the strength coach and some GAs (graduate assistants). The only coach was Coach Meyer — no other coaches were in the room. Urban gave us our calendar for the bowl week and stuff and told us to put the practice calendar down and we could tell something was wrong, (there was) no energy and you could tell that something wasn't right. He was talking about life skills and how things did not go the way we wanted and our main objective is to win the bowl game.
"After that he told us he spoke with those close to him and all of his doctors and (Meyer said) 'if I keep going my health will continue to get worse so I can't risk it to my family — so I am stepping down. I will be around and will help Jeremy Foley get a top-notch coach and you guys will be fine.' He was saying he has not been able to be involved with his family.
"As he was finishing, he was telling us for most of us this will be good because some of us need to start over and make a new impression with another coach. Near the end of the speech the freshman class was going crazy, saying they were all leaving and they kind of lost it for the most part. It really hit those guys hard, but to the others it was not as emotional. It was mainly a dead silence and everyone other than the freshmen were just looking around.
"Urban told us that he will still be around for us and a bunch of guys went to see him one-on-one to discuss it in more detail.
"After we left we were called back into the team meeting room and it was only Jeremy Foley — no Urban Meyer. Jeremy Foley said Urban had just come to a point where you come to a point in life where you have nothing left in the tank for coaching. Foley told us it's his job to bring in a GREAT coach for this team and he told us not to worry about it at all — 'that will be the easy part. I will bring in a great coach, this has happened before and bringing in a great coach is the easiest part of this deal. I will bring in a great coach who will get this train back on the right tracks.'
"After that it was kind of like a state of shock. Everyone was on the phone calling people they know and the freshman and sophomore kids were all saying the coaches don't care about us — and those kids just kept saying they are going to leave. I mean a lot of players said they were leaving, but the true Gators are not going anywhere."
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 9, 2010 17:42:51 GMT -5
TBird, I'm not arguing with your suggestion that Strong would be a good candidate. I'm just saying that Florida, of all schools, isn't going to play the race card. In fact, Florida is one of the more progressive schools in that regard. We're "in" the southeast, but much less like your Bama and Mississippi schools than you might think. As for Strong vs. Mullen, they both have something to offer. You're right in that Mullen's experience isn't dramatically different. He has been in the SEC for 2 years as a HC instead of the Big East for 1. But if it came down to those two choices only, I think Mullen would be the choice, not because he is white but because he is an offensive coach. Foley hasn't said much, but he has strongly hinted at a wish to hire a coach with a strong offensive background. Like I've said all along, personally, I think a staff with Strong as the HC, Shannon as DC and Bell as OC would be very, very impressive. But please don't try to play some race card here. If so, trust me, you've got the wrong guy and school. When I think Florida, I think progressive! Don't worry, I trust you that Charlie Strong's race and the race of his wife have "nothing" to do with Florida's decision. sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3813793"nothing".
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 10, 2010 13:14:24 GMT -5
I presume you are somehow trying to refute my point. You failed miserably. You posted a link to an article written a couple of years ago highlighting a view that Strong's race and/or his interracial marriage have had a negative impact on potential coaching jobs for him in the past. I'm not denying that at all ... just not at Florida. Florida is a strong and vocal advocate of equality. That's all that I am saying. But I guess from your perspective, there are only two options: either Strong gets the job or Strong doesn't get the job because he is black.
Ok genius, then tell me why Kerwin Bell doesn't get the job? Because he's white?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 10, 2010 13:28:52 GMT -5
I presume you are somehow trying to refute my point. You failed miserably. You posted a link to an article written a couple of years ago highlighting a view that Strong's race and/or his interracial marriage have had a negative impact on potential coaching jobs for him in the past. I'm not denying that at all ... just not at Florida. Florida is a strong and vocal advocate of equality. That's all that I am saying. But I guess from your perspective, there are only two options: either Strong gets the job or Strong doesn't get the job because he is black. Ok genius, then tell me why Kerwin Bell doesn't get the job? Because he's white? Because he's never coached at the FBS level, only High School and the FCS level, unlike Strong, who has years of experience as a successful coordinator at the FBS level.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 10, 2010 14:48:46 GMT -5
TBird, I'm just saying that Florida, of all schools, isn't going to play the race card. I'm not really sure if you understand what "playing the race card" means.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 11, 2010 21:06:39 GMT -5
Muschamp to Florida and celebrations in College Station.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 11, 2010 21:35:24 GMT -5
Guess it wasnt lack of hc exp, huh?
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Post by bingbearcats on Dec 11, 2010 22:59:37 GMT -5
Must have been his familiarity with the SEC
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 12, 2010 0:10:41 GMT -5
Foley hasn't said much, but he has strongly hinted at a wish to hire a coach with a strong offensive background. Well, you had a 50% chance of being right... Also, about that whole "HC experience" thing... On the plus side, Muschamp is pretty much as Caucasian as they come (he met his wife at a debutante ball). So much so that he was the only person interviewed. All kidding aside, though, I liked him when he was at Auburn, and he's certainly a high energy kind of guy. Whether he can handle all of the other stuff that comes with being a head coach - especially one in the SEC - remains to be seen.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 14, 2010 12:39:11 GMT -5
Foley hasn't said much, but he has strongly hinted at a wish to hire a coach with a strong offensive background. Well, you had a 50% chance of being right... Also, about that whole "HC experience" thing... On the plus side, Muschamp is pretty much as Caucasian as they come (he met his wife at a debutante ball). So much so that he was the only person interviewed. All kidding aside, though, I liked him when he was at Auburn, and he's certainly a high energy kind of guy. Whether he can handle all of the other stuff that comes with being a head coach - especially one in the SEC - remains to be seen. Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that I was totally wrong on that one. But the more I think about it, I'm not surprised at the hire at all. Just a couple of years ago, Muschamp was on everybody's short list of up and coming superstars. Then Texas signed him as "head coach in waiting" and he kind of went under the radar. Of course, Texas' struggles this year didn't help. But having looked at the numbers a bit more, I'm excited. Will was a coordintor in the SEC for 5 seasons and his defense was ranked in the top 10 Nationally all five years! Also, his defense has been among the Nation's leaders since he took over at Texas. So the bottom line is that we will have a really good defense, regardless of everything else. As for offense ... well ... I'll put that question on the back burner for a bit and let it simmer. As for the hire, I have egg on my face down here for sure. I heard Saturday afternoon that we had our new coach, and that an official announcement was coming Monday. I got a couple of messages from people somewhat on the inside that it was Bobby Stoops. I started checking as much as I could and kept hearing that that was what "they" were hearing too. Bodog put odds out for the next Gator coach sometime last Thursday. Mullen was the favorite at even money. Stoops was 3:1, and others ranged from Petrino at 6:1 to Peterson and Wannstadt who were both listed at 20:1. Wannstadt could have been 20,000,000:1 and I still wouldn't have bet on him. But that's a story for another day. By Saturday afternoon, the odds on Mullen had gone to 5:1 and the odds on Stoops had dropped to 3:2. But since it was a "sure thing," I still thought it was a good bet. I started calling some of my friends to see if any had a Bodog account and letting them know that they might want to put don a few bucks on Stoops. Thankfully, I don't think I got in touch with any that did before the story broke Saturday night that we did, in fact, have a new coach ... Will Muschamp! I sure am glad that I didn't have a Bodog account. Because if I did, it wouldn't have any money in it now. Whatever ... we have a great, young Superstar in the making as our coach. He's enthusiastic and charismatic and should likely anchor the program for many years.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 15, 2010 11:04:20 GMT -5
Must have been his familiarity with the SEC Are Auburn and LSU not in the SEC? This race thing is a bunch a crap. If Florida didn't hire Strong, it wasn't because of his race.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Dec 15, 2010 12:33:13 GMT -5
In fact, Florida is one of the more progressive schools in that regard. We're "in" the southeast, but much less like your Bama and Mississippi schools than you might think. To date, a Mississippi school is the only program in the history of the SEC to hire a black Head Coach. UFla's refusal to even interview a single black candidate for their recent vacancy is simply appalling. I know we like to laugh when public schools are obliged to post these openings on their HR websites just like any other University position, but if the Gators had done so and one of the qualifications for the job was "Must have the right background" they'd be rightfully attacked.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 15, 2010 13:07:07 GMT -5
Must have been his familiarity with the SEC Are Auburn and LSU not in the SEC? This race thing is a bunch a crap. If Florida didn't hire Strong, it wasn't because of his race. The idea that every hire in the SEC is racially restricted is silly, of course. The idea that there's a good chance it played into Florida's and other teams' decisions is not "crap." And the hire of Muschamp -- who has not head coaching experience -- without interviewing someone like Charlie Strong begs for the question.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 15, 2010 14:17:54 GMT -5
In fact, Florida is one of the more progressive schools in that regard. We're "in" the southeast, but much less like your Bama and Mississippi schools than you might think. To date, a Mississippi school is the only program in the history of the SEC to hire a black Head Coach. UFla's refusal to even interview a single black candidate for their recent vacancy is simply appalling. I know we like to laugh when public schools are obliged to post these openings on their HR websites just like any other University position, but if the Gators had done so and one of the qualifications for the job was "Must have the right background" they'd be rightfully attacked. I've made my approval of Strong quite obvious. As for not interviewing a black candidate, if you take Jeremy at his word, then he didn't interview anyone other than Muschamp. If so, then the issue isn't whether he was looking at race, but that he wasn't looking at enough different candidates. And if you don't take Foley at his word, then you don't know at all who he talked to and who he didn't. So he very well might have talked to Strong and/or other coaches of race. Also, Kentucky has Joker Phillips, who's black. For some reason, I thought there was another black coach in the SEC west for a while other than Croom, but I can't remember any off the top of my head, so maybe Croom and Phillips are the only ones. Either way, trying to play the race card on Florida here is absurd.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 15, 2010 15:43:00 GMT -5
In fact, Florida is one of the more progressive schools in that regard. We're "in" the southeast, but much less like your Bama and Mississippi schools than you might think. To date, a Mississippi school is the only program in the history of the SEC to hire a black Head Coach. UFla's refusal to even interview a single black candidate for their recent vacancy is simply appalling. I know we like to laugh when public schools are obliged to post these openings on their HR websites just like any other University position, but if the Gators had done so and one of the qualifications for the job was "Must have the right background" they'd be rightfully attacked. As HiFi points out, Joker Phillips says hi. Also, Florida didn't interview ANY other coaches -- black or white. I guess the SEC should strive to be like that bastion of liberalism and equality. After all, PAC-10 schools have hired three black coaches (Green, Willingham and Dorrell). That's a much better record than the SEC.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 15, 2010 15:45:12 GMT -5
Are Auburn and LSU not in the SEC? This race thing is a bunch a crap. If Florida didn't hire Strong, it wasn't because of his race. The idea that every hire in the SEC is racially restricted is silly, of course. The idea that there's a good chance it played into Florida's and other teams' decisions is not "crap." And the hire of Muschamp -- who has not head coaching experience -- without interviewing someone like Charlie Strong begs for the question. Again, they didn't interview any other candidates - black or white. If you want to criticize them for not interviewing more than one candidate, that's valid. Or if they had interviewed 8 candidates, and they were all white, that's another thing. Or if they hired a white guy who went 5-19 at Iowa State, you may have a point.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 15, 2010 20:20:40 GMT -5
The idea that every hire in the SEC is racially restricted is silly, of course. The idea that there's a good chance it played into Florida's and other teams' decisions is not "crap." And the hire of Muschamp -- who has not head coaching experience -- without interviewing someone like Charlie Strong begs for the question. Again, they didn't interview any other candidates - black or white. If you want to criticize them for not interviewing more than one candidate, that's valid. Or if they had interviewed 8 candidates, and they were all white, that's another thing. Or if they hired a white guy who went 5-19 at Iowa State, you may have a point. Except that the 5-19 guy apparently turned out to be a pretty good hire. ;D
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 16, 2010 0:29:24 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 16, 2010 9:59:27 GMT -5
Again, they didn't interview any other candidates - black or white. If you want to criticize them for not interviewing more than one candidate, that's valid. Or if they had interviewed 8 candidates, and they were all white, that's another thing. Or if they hired a white guy who went 5-19 at Iowa State, you may have a point. Except that the 5-19 guy apparently turned out to be a pretty good hire. ;D I'd disagree - that Cam Newton guy turned out to be a pretty good hire.
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