John Chaney Suspension

[SirSaxa]

I haven't seen much on the board about this, but I was wondering what people thought about Chaney's sending in the Goon and the subsequent broken arm of the opposing player.

[TBird41]

SirSaxa said:

I haven't seen much on the board about this, but I was wondering what people thought about Chaney's sending in the Goon and the subsequent broken arm of the opposing player.

Well that's b/c the original thread kind of devolved into name calling. I know, I was there.

Anyway, I think that the entire postseason is enough of a suspension. Chaney has done some stupid things over the course of his career, but he also has earned the chance to come back as well. He seems to have realized his mistake and is attempting to own up to it. Let him serve his time (the entire post season) and let him come back (or leave if he decides to retire) if he so chooses.

[DanMcQ]

This offseason would be a good time for him to retire, IMO.

[TBird41]

DanMcQ said:

This offseason would be a good time for him to retire, IMO.

I agree. I just don't think he should be forced to. Let him retire on his own, just don't blacklist him from the game.

[Hoyaholic]

Let's not forget that he is the same coach that ejected his own player last year for displaying "goonish" behavior against G'town when his guy went after Causey. I thought it was one of the classiest moves I have seen from a coach.

I say he should sit out the rest of this season, and whatever postseason Temple qualifies for. No way he should be forced out. Peoples' track records count for something in my book.

BTW - I just saw the foul last night and wow, it was pretty violent. I know the kid was ordered to foul, but he might have been a little to eager to oblige.

I can't believe there was no technical / flagrant foul called; especially if the kid was on an obvious mission to foul.

[TBird41]

That was the other thing about this: it's like the refs weren't paying attention. The "goon" had already used some of his fouls in very goon-like ways. An alert ref would have given him a tech, or ejected him long before Bryant got injured. It doesn't excuse Chaney, but he might have come to his senses if his "goon" had gotten thrown out or T'd up.

[SFHoya99]

I think there is avery big difference between sending in a goon to play rough knowing an injury could happen, and sending in a goon to injure a player.

How many times have I been happy with the Hoyas playing "No Easy Layups?' Physicality is part of the game, and so is some level of goondom, so matter how much people want to deny it.

Still, Chaney saw fit to punish himself, so there was a bit more to it than just being physical.

Suspended the rest of the season, then allowed to come back. If Billy Edelin and Shelden Williams are allowed to play ball, Chaney should be allowed back.

[MEGAFAN]

As I wrote in my conversation with Jennifer Frey of the Washington Post:

New York, N.Y.: With respect to Cheney, I think the last question unfairly paints him in a one-dimensional way: as a thug coach. Just as Bobby Knight and others have their "dark-sides", I think anyone who knows Cheney understands that he is a passionate man, who despite some old-school habits that are not tolerated in today's politically correct environment, has helped mold many young men into better basketball players and people. Now of course, I'm not condoning his actions (and I don't think he tried to justify his behavior), so suspending him for the post-season may not be unreasonable. But he owned up to his actions, and sought to make amends immediately, so this speaks volumes about his character, and is maybe the reason why Temple and the NCAA did not come down harder on him.

Jennifer Frey: I think you and I are pretty much in agreement on this one, New York. I am admittedly appalled by the actual incident. I can't bring myself to call it "one mistake," and simply dismiss it as such. But there is a LOT more to the man than the knee-jerk reaction we're getting from some. I just think this year should be over for him.

Oh yeah, the previous post and response were:


Ewa Beach, Hawaii: What further action do you believe should be taken against John Chaney? A three-game suspension is ridiculous for a coach who has demonstrated this kind of thuggery throughout his career. He should be gone, with no best wishes and no place in the hall of fame. I don't care how many victories he has. Can you name a single one of his "student-players," who went on to demonstrate the values of fair play and achievement?

Jennifer Frey: I think John Chaney should be done for the year, not just 3 games. You shouldn't have this kid Bryant sitting on the bench for the post-season tournament, his college career over because of what Chaney did, while Chaney gets to be on the sidelines coaching. No justice to that, in my opinion. And I think he, and university officials, should think long and hard in the off-season about whether this is the appropriate time for Chaney to quietly retire. Does he have a history of inapporpriate behavior? Yes. But this is a man who, like John Thompson Jr., also made a career out of giving opportunities to kids who had nothing until he came along. There is a lot of good that has come with the bad. So I'm not going to jump right out and say fire him, strip him of the Hall of Fame, or any of that.
And, as to your last statement, yes: Aaron McKie, for starters.


I think this is another classic case of being punished for an unfortunate result, rather than the intention. Let's face it, I've seen many a hard foul, and it is just plain bad luck that this happened to break the arm of a senior during his last season. Is it terrible? Yes. Does Cheney deserve to pay for it more so than if no injury occurred? Yes, because in life, luck plays a role in almost everything. Does he deserve to be treated as though this is a hate crime and get crucified for it? Obviously not!

Let's face it, the main reason he's in big trouble is because he himself anounced that this was gonna happen. Had he not drawn attention to it, it would go along with what many other physical, old-school coaches preach, which is no easy layups, hard fouls, etc. Do I think that either Cheney or the player intended to hurt this kid in this way? I don't think so, but I also realize that this is why REFS need to get on top of players, and if need be, throw them out of games and what not. The fact that this wasn't called a FLAGRANT illustrates that either the REFS lost control of the game OR the whole situation was played up by the media because of what Cheney announced before hand.

I'm not suggesting letting Cheney off the hook completely, but he acknowledged he was wrong, gave himself a self-imposed 1 game suspension, and then extended it after learning that Bryant wouldn't play again. Beyond that, it is unlikey that Temple plays in the NCAA's, but they may play in the NIT. If it gets that point, I don't think Cheney should be forced not to coach, but he may decided to give his assistant the reigns for the rest of the season, and return in 05-06.

Cheney is a legend! He may not quite be on the level with JT II, but the reason so many dislike him, especially in Phillly, is race-related, whether people want to admit it or not, whether it is explicit or implicit, conscious or unconscious. Either way, black or white, this man is a class act in a sport where younger coaches are all about $$$, ego and winning, and don't have the character that many of the legends have.

LET'S GO HOYAS!!! BEAT UCONN!

[DanMcQ]

TBird41 said:

I agree. I just don't think he should be forced to. Let him retire on his own.

Absolutely.

[AustinHoya03]

Things could get worse for Chaney. ESPN flashed a shot of the injured kid's parents at the St. Joe's-GW game tonight. The announcers mentioned that Chaney had met with them, but the meeting did not go well and the parents "were still considering all their options." I smell a cash settlement.

Boeheim was on PTI yesterday and said he thought Chaney probably put the goon in the game to set illegal picks, not throw opposing players to the ground, which seems logical to me. Jimmy went on to whine that college basketball is too physical, more physical than the NBA. Perhaps Syracuse should have left for the ACC too?

[Fan Of The Game]

I think this whole thing got too much press. Yes, a suspension was warranted and implemented. But the idea of playing a physical game to make a point is nothing unique.

I very much agree with MEGA.

What makes the Temple incident unique is that the coach came out and admitted it afterward. He got caught because he gave a press conference and admitted it.

I'm not saying he was right and I feel terrible for the St. Joe's kid. But in my opinion this was a suspendable over-reaction by Chaney, not a fire-able offense.

"You've been cheating on me for three years and this is how I find out?!?! You TELL me!?!!"
-Harris K. Telemacher

[SirSaxa]

Now that some others have shared their views, I'll share mine.

I do think he should be suspended for the entire season and post season.

Retaliating against opposing college kids because of something you think the refs should be calling is attacking the wrong targets.

Playing a physical game is not the same as sending in a 3rd stringer to make some hard fouls on the other team.

If Bobby Knight is still allowed to coach, then Cheney should be too.

Making a blanket statement that people in Philadelphia who don't like him... feel that way because of racial factors is an assumption and accusation that I would not feel comfortable making. I, for one, never liked Steve Lappas.. but it had nothing to do with racism. Same for Bobby Knight. Knight clearly knows a lot about basketball, but that doesn't mean he should be a leader of young men.

[SFHoya99]

SirSaxa said:

I, for one, never liked Steve Lappas.. but it had nothing to do with racism.

I never liked Steve Lappas, and it had everything to do with race.

After all, who likes rats?

[MEGAFAN]

SirSaxa said:

Now that some others have shared their views, I'll share mine.

I do think he should be suspended for the entire season and post season.

Retaliating against opposing college kids because of something you think the refs should be calling is attacking the wrong targets.

Playing a physical game is not the same as sending in a 3rd stringer to make some hard fouls on the other team.

If Bobby Knight is still allowed to coach, then Cheney should be too.

Making a blanket statement that people in Philadelphia who don't like him... feel that way because of racial factors is an assumption and accusation that I would not feel comfortable making. I, for one, never liked Steve Lappas.. but it had nothing to do with racism. Same for Bobby Knight. Knight clearly knows a lot about basketball, but that doesn't mean he should be a leader of young men.

While I am not comfortable making a blanket statement about why in general Philly people like/dislike Cheney, I am comfortable saying that in my limited experience, there are a disproportionate amount of people who dislike both JT and Cheney and who admit part of their dislike for both coaches is that "they don't have any white players," and "they play a brand of basketball that's very physical and too defensive oriented," and "those coaches don't like white players." I've heard it a thousand times, plus many who flat out accuse JT of being a racist himself. Now, obviously, accusing someone of being a racist doesn't make you a racist. I could, for instance, accuse a KKK buy of being a racist, and I would be right.

But I'll tell you that I'm not one for conspiracy theories and such, and I don't like necessarily injecting race into issues, but I'm not the one who inject race into the discussion of legendary black coaches. They did and so did their critics. It' naive to pretend that it isn't implicit, let alone sometimes blatant.

Now, of course, this has nothing to do with this particular incident, and I agree that banning him for the rest of the season would not be a terrible decision. The fact that he has basically done this himself speaks volumes, in my mind at leat. However, just like the Republicans waiting to pounce on Clinton with the Lewinsky thing, and just like the Democrats waiting for Bush to fail in Iraq, there are many Cheney critics who are now acting out of opportunism, as they've looked for every reason to try to get this guy out of basketball. They lack objectivity and are almost rejoicing in this, throwing their arms up in the air as though Cheney killed someone or something.

Well, enough of this, let's agree to disagree (if we are in disagreement) and forget about all this heavy stuff - rather it's time to focus on the Huskies.

LET'S GO HOYAS!!! BEAT UCONN!

[HoyaFanNY]

this entire incident is overblown, mostly by the aholes at espn. what chaney did is nothing different than 100's of coaches have done, but were smart enough not to admit it. chaney told the kid to be physical, that's it. he didn't say 'hey, go break bryants arm'. the broken arm was a result of him hitting the floor, not chaney. to me, it's the same thing as a 250 pound center setting hard screens on a 165 pound guard or a guy throwing his elbows after getting a rebound. basketball is a physical game, so everyone needs to take the skirts off and relax. [EDIT] espn is making this into the crime of the century. instead of focusing on illinois being undefeated, they spend 3 days on this crap.

i blame the refs more than anyone. they let the game get out of control. they should have seen where this was going and tossed ingram after he threw the elbow. i think jimmy burr was one of the refs, no big shock there.

[Cambridge]

I agree with the ref thing...in my experience the worst refs are those that are lax to blow the whistle and when they do, they are the ones who blow the whistle on the retaliation rather than the original infraction...this only increases frustration and the scale of retaliation. I'm not excusing the actions of players or coaches, just pointing out that when refs loose control of a game things get ugly really fast.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Big mistake, but with his reputation for doing things the right way, I think he deserves a second chance starting next year.

Goodwill developed over the years can not disappear because of one very stupid mistake.

[Hoya50]

mega - i have to disagree with you.

you said "I think this is another classic case of being punished for an unfortunate result, rather than the intention. Let's face it, I've seen many a hard foul, and it is just plain bad luck that this happened to break the arm of a senior during his last season." you can run a red and get a ticket with a fine or you can run a red, plow into someone and go to the hole. chaney plowed into someone when he ordered that kid to perform those fouls. people here talk about the refs having responsibility. how about chaney - you'd think after the first hard foul he'd come to his senses and rethink his actions. not john - he reordered that kid to foul again. it wasn't just one order - it was multiple orders for the hard fouls.

i'm sorry, but john should retire or temple should not allow him to coach. it's a pathetic situation.

[Churchwell]

My $02:

1) I agree about the refs. Where were they when this guy was laying waste for 5 minutes.

2) Someone made an interesting point about the fact that Chaney didn't intend for anyone to get hurt and just wanted to send a message with some physical, intimidating play. Totally valid point, but the fact is someone did get hurt and intentional harm was done. So Chaney is culpable.

3) Suspension for the rest of the year seems adequate. The guy is a legend and he has been very contrite and proactive about wanting to make amends. If this wasn't the case (Bobby Knight, anyone?) I would suggest that Chaney needed to be sent a message with a harsher punishment. I wonder, however, if Chaney will coach in the NCAAs if Temple wins the A10 touney. My understanding is that he has suspended himself through the A10 tournament and not the entire post season should Temple go the the NIT or NCAA. Given that the St. Joe's kid doesn't get to play for the rest of his senior season, I don't think Chaney should coach again in 2005.

4) Where the heck has the A10 Commisioner's office been through all of this? A coach from one school sends a kid into a game to intentionally goon it up and a kid from another school gets injured? Come on. I would expect the A10 Commisioner to step in and insist on some sort of punishment. The fact that Chaney initially suspended himself for one game (one game!) is a joke. I am thrilled that he came to his senses after meeting with the kid's parents and saw fit to increase the penalty. But since when does anyone get to impose their own sanctions when they make an aggregious mistake like this one? I expect the A10 to insist that Chaney not coach for the rest of the year...they almost have to in order to save some face. If I were the kid's parents, Phil Martelli from St. Joe's, or anyone else from SJU, I'd be furious that no higher authority besides Coach Chaney seems to have any jurisdiction here. This is not an isolated incident. Chaney has pulled this kind of stunt on at least one occasion (instructing William Cunningham to "take [Chris Webber] out" during the Elite Eight game vs. Michigan in 1993 after telling the media he intended to do so the day before). He threatened to kill another coach (Calipari in 1994) in a post-game news conference. These incidents are serious blemishes on an otherwize legendary career. Legend or no legend, Chaney must be held accountable to an authority higher than himself or the NCAA is sending the wrong message.

[Cambridge]

The A-10 has a real spotty record when it comes to dealing with contraversy. See it's conduct regarding the gruesome rape scandal at st. bonaventure last year.