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Post by thejerseytornado on Oct 5, 2010 9:43:59 GMT -5
here's what I don't get: there's a PG who might be great in our system. JT3 is scouting him + its at a high school where he's already got contacts and has a relationship, so visiting is a good thing net of this one guy.
This isn't zero sum--g'town has enough open scholarships to add a 2011 PG (always part of the staff's plan) and still recruit a ton of bigs (and hopefully get some of them!). Georgetown's clearly trying to get bigs, regardless of what happens with this guy.
for all we know, this kid might be ok with getting 0-5 minutes of tick his first year. At which point, it'd be Markel + Vee and that's it at PG. I like having 3 PGs personally.
edit: and it's good to bring in players a year before they're needed. It's the big east! Don't rely on frosh! recruit 2011 kids for the 2012 season. Yes, Jason + Starks + Vee can handle it next year. Plus, we've been complaining about the lack of a bench. this is how you build one.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Oct 5, 2010 10:06:46 GMT -5
did i miss the part where this kid was offered a scholarship?? sheesh guys...you want JTIII to do better on the recruiting trail and we're slamming him for checking out a player?? laughable...calm down people
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 5, 2010 10:11:09 GMT -5
No harm in looking as:
1) A guard could transfer 2) A guard could get injured 3) Always need good practice players 4) The kid is local
Also, Travieso and Padilla schooled Iverson and Page in the Elite Eight! So go figure...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 5, 2010 10:37:02 GMT -5
Where is the heat being turned up on this kid? He's at Montrose, which I guess we're at once a month. He's coming for an unofficial, which is on his own dime.
We've gone through this with a bunch of players. I suppose it could be Omar Wattad, but it could be Malik Story. Or it could be Jon Wallace or Vee Sanford.
They need bigs, but I don't really care how tall my guards are.
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guru
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Post by guru on Oct 5, 2010 11:02:18 GMT -5
did i miss the part where this kid was offered a scholarship?? sheesh guys...you want JTIII to do better on the recruiting trail and we're slamming him for checking out a player?? laughable...calm down people Telling RDF to calm down is like telling caffeine to give it a rest.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Oct 5, 2010 11:22:04 GMT -5
Georgetown and Stu Vetter have no relationship. The minute Tyrone Johnson mentioned he was thinking of going there--Hoyas were out. People brought up Spurlock and Vinson--but remember those two left Vetter and Montrose in Summer before their SR year.
Recruiting is about 2 things--recruiting talent and recruiting to fit your system of play. Is Georgetown going to change their system? I'm going to say no to that. If that is case--getting a traditional, smallish point guard isn't imperative. They have several guards on the roster--and what does it say about the program we've got people talking up "transfers" when season hasn't started and 2 of the 3 SR's leaving are guards?? Wouldn't that open up spots for current players who should be developing into players who can contribute? If they don't leave--you have several options--where you don't currently in the frontcourt. If you want to use small lineup--let them run and play openly and have to throw your system aside to maximize the advantages of the roster--which would be trying to get more looks before opponents set up defense-as Georgetown did successfully against Cuse in 2nd Half of game in DC and in BET--and miserably in game at the Dome and 1st half of game in DC. System can't work with small ball--so you either have to alter style to fit roster or recruit to what makes system work.
Again--I'm strictly judging things based on the assumption that III's comments about being a National Championship contending program are still the goal. If not, then I'll re-adjust my outlook and they can bring in anyone they want--and play small.....
BTW--regarding Hollis Thompson, he is being talked about playing out of position this year, and if anything--the guy is a 2G who was learning to play SF last year--he would be an ideal 2G now--but Freeman is best offensive player on team and has to play--so SF it is--at least Hollis is 6'7 and can play SF and not sacrifice the size they do/will when Freeman has to play and defend SF on defensive end and Clark/Wright are in backcourt--and sacrifice defense from them as smallish guards--which honestly can't happen in small ball approach. You have to be strong on defense in backcourt to apply this and expect to win.
You are what your record states-and with small ball-this team has been a substandard to middle of the pack team in Big East in '09 and '10. Prior to that--they were championship teams and NCAA contenders. Just think it's not hard to see the difference in roster composition--but again--I'm basing my observation/comments on fact the goals are the same.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 5, 2010 11:29:48 GMT -5
The thing is when people like myself try to point out earlier that III hadn't offered and probably wouldn't, the response from a couple was somethng like "who are you to say III won't offer","this guy appears to be pretty good", "he could help us", blah blah blah. Now the reaction is "calm down, the kid hasn't been offered." Okay. And I agree.. Which means we have come full circle on this discussion.
As for "the plan" always being to bring in a point guard for the 2011 class even that can be debated. The original idea I recall being passed along the message boards was that III was going after one guard : either Cook or T. Johnson. Not both. And Johnson isn't a true pg. The other schollies were to be devoted to two bigs and a SF. Of course III never saiid that to us, so it was all speculation on our part in the first place. But to claim the plan all along was to bring in a point guard in 2011 is merely speculation as well.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Oct 5, 2010 11:31:52 GMT -5
Poor Carmelo Betancourt...who would've thunk that he would create such a firestorm on HoyaTalk?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 5, 2010 14:12:41 GMT -5
Discussion re: height of recruits and recruit class composition can be continued in this new thread, where the last three posts were moved. Please keep this thread on topic (i.e., discussion of this potential recruit specifically).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 5, 2010 14:37:17 GMT -5
No harm in looking as: 1) A guard could transfer 2) A guard could get injured 3) Always need good practice players 4) The kid is local Also, Travieso and Padilla schooled Iverson and Page in the Elite Eight! So go figure... Ouch! That still hurts. I was rooting for GU, but that experienced PR duo took care of business.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 5, 2010 14:48:39 GMT -5
Recruiting is about 2 things--recruiting talent and recruiting to fit your system of play. Is Georgetown going to change their system? I'm going to say no to that. If that is case--getting a traditional, smallish point guard isn't imperative. They have several guards on the roster--and what does it say about the program we've got people talking up "transfers" when season hasn't started and 2 of the 3 SR's leaving are guards?? Wouldn't that open up spots for current players who should be developing into players who can contribute? If they don't leave--you have several options--where you don't currently in the frontcourt. If you want to use small lineup--let them run and play openly and have to throw your system aside to maximize the advantages of the roster--which would be trying to get more looks before opponents set up defense-as Georgetown did successfully against Cuse in 2nd Half of game in DC and in BET--and miserably in game at the Dome and 1st half of game in DC. System can't work with small ball--so you either have to alter style to fit roster or recruit to what makes system work. As stated in the first article, the kid likes our style of play and is a fit. The system has worked with Wallace and Sapp playing together. It's the talent that makes it work. BTW, whether we like it or not, transfers are a reality. Every coach should have a back-up plan or risk having to scramble.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 5, 2010 14:56:25 GMT -5
The thing is when people like myself try to point out earlier that III hadn't offered and probably wouldn't, the response from a couple was somethng like "who are you to say III won't offer","this guy appears to be pretty good", "he could help us", blah blah blah. Now the reaction is "calm down, the kid hasn't been offered." Okay. And I agree.. Which means we have come full circle on this discussion. As for "the plan" always being to bring in a point guard for the 2011 class even that can be debated. The original idea I recall being passed along the message boards was that III was going after one guard : either Cook or T. Johnson. Not both. And Johnson isn't a true pg. The other schollies were to be devoted to two bigs and a SF. Of course III never saiid that to us, so it was all speculation on our part in the first place. But to claim the plan all along was to bring in a point guard in 2011 is merely speculation as well. The problem with the first part was the "probably wouldn't", which led to "how do you know", which then led to it's early, "calm down". As for the second paragraph, I agree with you in that Ty probably isn't a true PG, but he's listed as one and will play one in Montrose. As I mentioned above, Carmelo will probably back-up Ty, and if he's very good, then the coach will find time to play both players at the same time.
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Post by prhoya on Feb 8, 2011 23:25:41 GMT -5
Update from the same website:
Betancourt Has Big 2nd Half As Montrose Beats Oak Hill In Double Overtime Two High School basketball powerhouses went into double overtime with Montrose Christian beating Oak Hill 70-62. Montrose traveled over 5 hours to get to what many feel was a must win game if they are going to have a chance at winning a national championship.
For class of 2011 PG Carmelo Betancourt this was the game he had been waiting for all year. When he didn't get much time in the first half he knew when he got in during the second half he wasn't coming out. IPRB spoke with Betancourt right before he boarded the bus after the game. " I'm so happy right now! I was kind of angry that I couldn't do more to help my team in the first half. Coach didn't really play me that much and I was kind of angry. I got in the second half and felt like I changed the game. My teammates were playing so hard and I felt like Quinn Cook (signed to Duke) was having problems staying with me. I think I had like 9 assists in the 2nd half."
As several top 20 programs have expressed interest in recruiting Betancourt this was an important game for him and his recruitment. Showing that he could play with a All American guard like Cook should finally put the question to bed about his ability to create separation.
Betancourts' mentor and PR Playmakers founder, Todd Washington said, " Betancourt is a bonafide top 20 PG! He is the type of player who will come in a do all of the things you want a PG to do. Coach Vetter and the staff at Montrose have done a great job this year getting him ready for the next level. He is going to be one of the steals of this years' recruiting class."
When we asked Carmelo what did he take away from tonights' experience he said," I believe now more than ever that hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. Oak Hill may have more talent then us but tonight, we worked harder."
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 9, 2011 2:14:41 GMT -5
Wow, what a report. A PG is one of our underlying needs...do we take Betancourt now and whichever of Ochefu or Anderson comes first?
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damnhoya
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Post by damnhoya on Feb 9, 2011 10:50:39 GMT -5
Update from the same website: Betancourt Has Big 2nd Half As Montrose Beats Oak Hill In Double Overtime Two High School basketball powerhouses went into double overtime with Montrose Christian beating Oak Hill 70-62. Montrose traveled over 5 hours to get to what many feel was a must win game if they are going to have a chance at winning a national championship. For class of 2011 PG Carmelo Betancourt this was the game he had been waiting for all year. When he didn't get much time in the first half he knew when he got in during the second half he wasn't coming out. IPRB spoke with Betancourt right before he boarded the bus after the game. " I'm so happy right now! I was kind of angry that I couldn't do more to help my team in the first half. Coach didn't really play me that much and I was kind of angry. I got in the second half and felt like I changed the game. My teammates were playing so hard and I felt like Quinn Cook (signed to Duke) was having problems staying with me. I think I had like 9 assists in the 2nd half." As several top 20 programs have expressed interest in recruiting Betancourt this was an important game for him and his recruitment. Showing that he could play with a All American guard like Cook should finally put the question to bed about his ability to create separation. Betancourts' mentor and PR Playmakers founder, Todd Washington said, " Betancourt is a bonafide top 20 PG! He is the type of player who will come in a do all of the things you want a PG to do. Coach Vetter and the staff at Montrose have done a great job this year getting him ready for the next level. He is going to be one of the steals of this years' recruiting class." When we asked Carmelo what did he take away from tonights' experience he said," I believe now more than ever that hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. Oak Hill may have more talent then us but tonight, we worked harder." Nice propaganda/fluff piece.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 9, 2011 13:47:45 GMT -5
I agree that it's a propaganda piece, but what I take away is that he played Cook, did great (9 assists), his team won, and knows that he needs to continue to work hard. BTW, anyone else with a report of some knd from that game? Was GU there?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 19, 2011 14:35:55 GMT -5
After watching PR-eligible guards Joey Rodríguez and Fontán go at it and shine in the VCU/USC game and then Rodríguez control the game last night, the more I toss out the idea that height is very important for PGs. It's not height that makes a good PG, it's his cojones, his decision making, his ball-handling and the confidence in his game. Good shooting and speed do not hurt. At 5'10" (or less), you didn't see Rodríguez looking indecisive, scared or shaky out there playing against a suppossedly better team and three McD/Jordan seniors/juniors (one of the alleged best backcourts in the nation) and sometimes against our bigs in our terrible defensive set-up. No, he took it to them and showed great basketball I.Q.
That said, Carmelo is suppossed to be the better prospect. According to the local media, he plays like Joey, but with greater control and better outside shot.
GU does not need more guards who get the deer-caught-in-headlights look (JRivers), who look like their playing hot potato (like Drew Hall to not mention a player on the current roster), who are nervous/jittery with the ball (no need to mention his name). Starks needs a back-up who is ready to get 10 mins fast. I cringe at the thought of JC bringing up the ball next season. Vee? I haven't seen him play that much to know if he can play PG regularly or 2G.
Again, to be perfectly clear, I'm not making a case for Carmelo. I'm making a case for the qualities that JT3 needs to look for when recruiting future PG-capable guards. Height is not even close to the most important one. It just so happens to be that most PR guards don't have the height, but have all the qualities described above, including big cojones.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 19, 2011 15:05:30 GMT -5
There are plenty of guards with cojones PR--but the problem is--the style of play. A lot of big time points don't want to play for Georgetown because they don't have ball in their hands enough--Wright had ball more this year due to Greg leaving. Great guards want to control the game/lead. Georgetown is about "fitting in"--the program doesn't seem to accept alpha male types--and they surely haven't recruited guys who are self motivated/hungry or enough of them. It's a nice team full of nice/unselfish guys and that leads to "nice" seasons that end with defeat due to waiting for things to happen instead of making them happen.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 19, 2011 15:32:37 GMT -5
I get your point and, if it's true that big-time points don't want to come here for the reasons you mention (I don't know this, but will take your word for purposes of this discussion), there are team player-type PGs out there who can have all the qualities mentioned above.
Again, I'm using these guys as examples, but Rodríguez and Fontán are team players. Rodríguez made everyone around him look great, while looking great too. He found his open teammates and kicked the ball to them for huge 3s. He played with our press, crossed mid-court, we backed away (don't understand this strategy), he drained the shot clock while standing alone near mid-court (don't understand how we let them do this to us; our players look so frustrated because they know the clock is ticking like crazy and we're not doing anything about it, but they're following instructions) and then, with 10 seconds left, ran the offense to either shoot, move without the rock or find the open teammate.
Do we have one now on the roster? We don't know because the candidates, Starks and Vee (is he really a PG candidate?), barely played this season (I'm not even considering JC). It will be one of the key questions for next season.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 19, 2011 16:22:31 GMT -5
I get your point and, if it's true that big-time points don't want to come here for the reasons you mention (I don't know this, but will take your word for purposes of this discussion), there are team player-type PGs out there who can have all the qualities mentioned above. Again, I'm using these guys as examples, but Rodríguez and Fontán are team players. Rodríguez made everyone around him look great, while looking great too. He found his open teammates and kicked the ball to them for huge 3s. He played with our press, crossed mid-court, we backed away (don't understand this strategy), he drained the shot clock while standing alone near mid-court (don't understand how we let them do this to us; our players look so frustrated because they know the clock is ticking like crazy and we're not doing anything about it, but they're following instructions) and then, with 10 seconds left, ran the offense to either shoot, move without the rock or find the open teammate. Do we have one now on the roster? We don't know because the candidates, Starks and Vee (is he really a PG candidate?), barely played this season (I'm not even considering JC). It will be one of the key questions for next season. Agree--but key point being Rodriguez "HAD THE BALL IN HIS HANDS"-----he didn't cross halfcourt throw it to a guy who can't dribble/pass unless he's unguarded and then he puts ball between his legs or behind his back for no purpose whatsoever and have to run around in a pattern. The type of point guard you want will never consider coming here.
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