EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 24, 2010 10:01:53 GMT -5
There have been several posts in the 2010 election thread about the Pledge to America but I think it deserves its own thread.
I just read it and, to say the least, I'm underwhelmed. There are many good things in it but it fails, in any significant way, to address the ticking bomb of the humongous national debt resulting from the recurring deficits. Lots of lip service but no hard action on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, nor on Defense spending. I hoped for much more from the Republicans but I guess the establishment Republicans are what the Tea Party is challenging in their actions. Establishment Republicans are not listening. Of course, neither are the Democrats but they are not presenting some bold new Pledge.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 24, 2010 10:10:11 GMT -5
Has the Tea Party put forward any solutions for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and defense spending?
If not, then what makes the Tea Party different than the Dems or the GOP, other than the fact that they complain louder about the deficit?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 24, 2010 10:11:58 GMT -5
Put Paul Ryan in charge. Seriously. Tomorrow, if not yesterday.
With every passing day, I am more and more convinced that he is:
a) smarter than pretty much any other elected official when it comes to the economy.
b) the only one who is willing to put bold policies forth that make note of the sacrifices needed in entitlement programs.
c) one of the very few who talks like an adult; and talks like he is talking TO adults, not to children (except when he is talking to Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, for obvious reasons).
I think the Pledge is no great shakes, but politically, it will serve its purpose:
- It will generate enthusiasm among the Tea Party for Republicans.* - It really doesn't give Democrats anything to run against that they weren't going to run against already.
(*given the primary season, I think this is important)
[/$0.02]
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Sept 24, 2010 10:21:04 GMT -5
Deficit Hypocrisy"The GOP does call for a spending freeze on most government programs (not affecting the elderly or veterans or the military), saving an estimated $100 billion. That's great. The deficit this year will top $1.3 trillion..."
"Here is the GOP cruising to a handsome election victory. Did you seriously imagine that they would jeopardize the prospect of victory and chairmanships by issuing big, bold promises to do deadly unpopular things?..."
"Tea Party activists have been claiming all year that there exists in the United States a potential voting majority for radically more limited government.
"The Republican 'Pledge to America' declares: Sorry, we don't believe that. We shall cut spending where we can - reform the legislative process in important ways - and sever the federal guarantee for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Republicans will redirect the federal government to a new path that is less expensive and intrusive than the status quo. But if you want promises of radical change? No. Too risky. We don't think the voters want that - not the smaller, older, richer, whiter electorate that votes in non-presidential years, much less the bigger, younger, poorer, less white electorate of presidential years. And even that smaller, older, richer, whiter electorate is highly wary of cuts to programs that benefit them, Medicare above all."I guess this reiterates ed's quite reasonable first post of this thread.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 24, 2010 10:27:12 GMT -5
If Paul Ryan actually got his entire roadmap passed, the GOP wouldn't see another majority for a decade.
It would be the classic case of a smart politician with smart ideas vs. a dumb electorate. The cornerstone of his roadmap is basically eliminating Medicare, and the cries of "killing grandma" would be endless. Remember how loud those cries were over HCR? And that was all for a plan that AARP endorsed! Now imagine AARP and every other organization that stands to lose out under Ryan's plan (and there's lots of them) throwing 100% of their resources into anti-Ryan propaganda. I admire Ryan for having the guts to call for these sorts of things, but if it actually became official GOP policy it would be like a snowball in a nuclear blast.
Would his ideas solve the deficit? According to some studies, yes. Do I support his plan? No, although I think the plan and Ryan's demeanor when pushing it are positive contributions to our political discourse. I think he has some good ideas in there, but on the whole I think there's a lot of babies going out with the bathwater.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 24, 2010 10:38:02 GMT -5
I haven't read the Pledge, but does it contain a promise to have Colbert testify at every single congressional committee hearing? If so, I wholeheartedly endorse it.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 24, 2010 11:18:11 GMT -5
I haven't read the Pledge, but does it contain a promise to have Colbert testify at every single congressional committee hearing? If so, I wholeheartedly endorse it. Some testimony from today's "expert" witness: dailycaller.com/2010/09/24/mr-colbert-comes-to-washington/Though, I suppose Congress wastes time on so many other things, doing so to generate some humor isn't the worst thing in the world.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 24, 2010 11:34:12 GMT -5
I haven't read the Pledge, but does it contain a promise to have Colbert testify at every single congressional committee hearing? If so, I wholeheartedly endorse it. Some testimony from today's "expert" witness: dailycaller.com/2010/09/24/mr-colbert-comes-to-washington/Though, I suppose Congress wastes time on so many other things, doing so to generate some humor isn't the worst thing in the world. What frightens me is that so many people accept what this clown peddles as news. 3,2,1 before you all explode, the same is true of Beck, Limbaugh, O'reilly, Olberman, maddow, etc, all of whom are simply entertainers out to make themselves wealthy (a pursuit i heartily endorse).
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 24, 2010 12:14:09 GMT -5
I don't think people accept what Colbert says as news. Stewart certainly, but not Colbert.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 24, 2010 12:16:33 GMT -5
I don't think people accept what Colbert says as news. Stewart certainly, but not Colbert. I hope you are right. I fear you are not.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 24, 2010 12:18:27 GMT -5
I don't think people accept what Colbert says as news. Stewart certainly, but not Colbert. I agree. Colbert is pure entertainment. The Daily Show attempts to be semi-serious. Just compare the interviews Colbert does with those done by Stewart. The latter attempts to ask somewhat legit questions; the former makes no pretense of doing so.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 24, 2010 12:25:05 GMT -5
I don't think people accept what Colbert says as news. Stewart certainly, but not Colbert. If people did they would be awfully scared of Bears.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 24, 2010 12:56:32 GMT -5
Basically, what we're trying to say, easyed, is that no one really wants to talk about the Pledge to America.
;D
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 24, 2010 13:57:12 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 24, 2010 14:18:34 GMT -5
Hmm, I wonder who started that previous thread... You didn't expect them to call if Contract with America II, did you? Contract with America: The Republicans Strike Back? Contract with America: Attack of the Republicans?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 27, 2010 10:50:50 GMT -5
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 27, 2010 11:46:29 GMT -5
Interesting piece. I think Douthat gets the GOP pretty spot-on in this piece, but he gives the Tea Partiers too much credit. Douthat says, "Their eccentric elements notwithstanding, the Tea Parties have something vital to offer the country: a vocal, activist constituency for spending cuts at a time when politicians desperately need to have their spines stiffened on the issue. But it’s all too easy to imagine the movement (which, after all, includes a lot of Social Security and Medicare recipients!) being seduced with rhetorical nods to the Constitution, and general promises of spending discipline that never get specific." Since when did the Tea Party offer something more substantive than rhetorical nods to the Constitution and general promises of spending discipline that never get specific? They are indeed and activist constituency for the principle of spending cuts, but when it comes down to what exactly to cut, all you get is a generic stuff like "pork barrel spending" or "the Health Care Bill" or "the Stimulus" (the latter is impossible to cut, since it's money already spent). You certainly won't find any realistic, substantive plans to dramatically cut back on Medicare, Social Security, or defense spending. Are the Dems or GOP any better on cutting the Big 3? Paul Ryan aside, no. But unlike the Dems and GOP, the Tea Party is mostly a single-issue party (the deficit). When a single-issue party doesn't have any serious plans to fix its single issue, there's absolutely no rational reason to vote for them.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 27, 2010 12:05:49 GMT -5
Since when did the Tea Party offer something more substantive than rhetorical nods to the Constitution and general promises of spending discipline that never get specific? They are indeed and activist constituency for the principle of spending cuts, but when it comes down to what exactly to cut, all you get is a generic stuff like "pork barrel spending" or "the Health Care Bill" or "the Stimulus" (the latter is impossible to cut, since it's money already spent). According to CNN, only about half of the Stimulus has been spent. There's still a good $500 billion that hasn't been spent yet. money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/#STIMULUS
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 27, 2010 15:58:22 GMT -5
The Tea Party movement is not a political party. It has no centralized organization so it can't speak as one voice on the solution to the problems but seems glued together by great concern over the debt and the intrusiveness of the federal government. It's up to the Republican or Democratic party to offer a centralized plan for solution. Neither has done so.
It's time to start with not spending the remainder of the Stimulus and by repealing the Medicare Prescription Drug program and the Health Care Law. Then move on to upping the age for receipt of Social Security and Medicare and to scale back Medicaid. Increase the upper earned limit for Social Security taxes to the full amount. Abolish the Departments of Labor, Agriculture and Education. Combine the departments of Interior and Commerce. Get the federal government out of the arts. Privatize the postal service. Abolish the Marine Corps. Remove troops from Germany and Japan and close all but a few overseas bases. Close about 75% of the arsenals, warehouses and supply depots spread around various Congressional districts. Consolidate air forces in fewer services and do the same for special forces. Consolidate all ships, boats and craft into the, gulp, Navy. Eliminate duplicative intelligence agencies. Abolish the Department of Homeland Security.
This may sound like just a shopping list. Some are hairbrained but each, and others, should be debated on its merits relative to a lean, less intrusive government. It is only through forward thinking that it will be possible to tackle the massive debt. Will either party step up to the plate and will the electorate allow any to move forward, or will the country hem and haw and go bankrupt?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 27, 2010 19:28:24 GMT -5
Since when did the Tea Party offer something more substantive than rhetorical nods to the Constitution and general promises of spending discipline that never get specific? They are indeed and activist constituency for the principle of spending cuts, but when it comes down to what exactly to cut, all you get is a generic stuff like "pork barrel spending" or "the Health Care Bill" or "the Stimulus" (the latter is impossible to cut, since it's money already spent). According to CNN, only about half of the Stimulus has been spent. There's still a good $500 billion that hasn't been spent yet. money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/#STIMULUSI'd lay odds it finds its way into DNC coffers...
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