hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 1, 2010 1:56:36 GMT -5
I'm well aware that there will be an "official" College Football thread. I'm also well aware that if I started one, the mere stench of my presence would, for some reason, alienate some of you to begin with. For that reason, I won't start such a general discussion thread.
That being said, I do think that the season that is nearly here is quite interesting. And I'm curious what the thoughts are now, before it begins.
Moreso than any other season I remember, there are a number of "important" games in the first couple of weeks. Off the top of my head, the following games should be very important on the National scale, when the end of the season comes around. (I know that we are all/almost all in favor of a real playoff, but that being said, we must accept -- at least for now -- that we don't have one.)
Boise St. vs. Virginia Tech (neutral) but not really ... at D.C.
Pitt. at Utah
Penn St. vs. Bama (neutral) but not really ... in Atlanta
LSU vs. UNC (neutral) but not really ... in Atlanta
FSU at Oklahoma
Miami at Ohio St.
Oregon St. at TCU (actually, I think this is a "neutral" game also, but not positive)
There are a few more that I am forgetting, but the point is that there are more influential games in the first couple of weeks than I can remember.
As most of us know, the general rankings have Alabama ranked first. Ohio St. and Boise St. are among the teams also ranked in the top 5 in most polls. With their schedule, obviously the Boise St. game vs. the Hokies on Labor Day will be interesting to all. Similarly, the Buckeye-Hurricane, Seminole-Sooner and Nittany Lion-Tide matchups will have National implications.
But before any of this starts, I am curious what you all think of these, and any other teams. What would your rankings look like?
I'm not sure what the "official" criteria shoud be, and for that matter, I have asked that question many times and no one seems to know. In any case, what would your official rankings look like?
I am going to go on record, listing who I think are the "best" teams in order at this point. Obviously, without seeing any of them play, this is somewhat of an exercise in futility. Still, since everyone else is doing it ...
1. Boise St.
2. Alabama
3. Iowa
4. Florida
5. Wisconsin
6. Ohio St.
7. FSU
8. TCU
...
Ok, I lied. But I tried to analyze it as the voters apparently do. The question never seems to be who is the "best" team, the second "best" team ... and so on. But rather, who will be "deserving" of such a ranking at the end of the season. I think that Boise St. has a monumental game against the Hokies on Labor Day. If they win that game, they are almost a shoe-in for the BCS title game. Thankfully, I think Va. Tech. has a very good shot. Still, given the schedules, I think that Boise St. has to be ranked number 1. I give Bama the nod at the 2 spot, because they start on the top of the mountain. But I honestly think that they have way too many potholes to navigate to finish where many expect. Replacing 8/9 starters on defense is very dangerous. Just look at the 2007 Gator team, when Tebow won the Heisman. But since they get Florida in Tuscaloosa, I give them the edge. And additionally, even though I don't like the son of a b!tch, Nick Saban is a damn good coach.
I think the rest of the rankings are rather obvious. My point is twofold:
1. Who do you think is deserving of their rankings?
and
2. What do you think the final rankings will be?
Those questions are similar, but tremendously different in my opinion.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 1, 2010 9:36:38 GMT -5
My issue with Boise State-VA Tech game--it was originally scheduled in a manner that as a fan who thinks the Major Conferences deserve the National Title game due to strength of schedule-would let them prove it. They would be playing 2 solid--not dominant teams in Va Tech and Oregon State back to back--which is very similar to what the major conference teams do during a season. So what happens? ESPN gets Tech to accomodate Boise and move game to Labor Day--which is typical Boise State-have months of time to prep for 1 tough opponent--and then they can do the same for Oregon State as well. It's a joke to compare what they face to what Major conference teams face in terms of competition and so many times it's an "upset" that ruins season of a major conference team which is a result of facing teams that have athletes that take advantage of superior team's "off week"--while Boise knows they have 2-3 games a year--including a Bowl game--and it's why I detest the hype they get and the fact game was moved to start of year. At least the game is in DC--but still a joke when compared to teams who play better opposition on a more consistent basis.
My "regionalization" theory of BCS Bowls has Boise in National Title game against Ohio State--who I dont' think is that good--but for some reason that damn bowl loves to have them or Oklahoma out there every damn year and know way in hell I'm taking a Brent Venables defense-not to mention their hillbilly QB can't read a book let alone coverage--he'll cost them some games being dumb.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 2, 2010 12:07:02 GMT -5
No predictions for this week's big games?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 2, 2010 12:49:36 GMT -5
No predictions for this week's big games? I predict no upsets among ranked teams. Why? Because ESPN told me I should expect the unexpected this season. ....Naturally, I am going the other way. |
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 2, 2010 18:37:53 GMT -5
My issue with Boise State-VA Tech game--it was originally scheduled in a manner that as a fan who thinks the Major Conferences deserve the National Title game due to strength of schedule-would let them prove it. They would be playing 2 solid--not dominant teams in Va Tech and Oregon State back to back--which is very similar to what the major conference teams do during a season. So what happens? ESPN gets Tech to accomodate Boise and move game to Labor Day--which is typical Boise State-have months of time to prep for 1 tough opponent--and then they can do the same for Oregon State as well. It's a joke to compare what they face to what Major conference teams face in terms of competition and so many times it's an "upset" that ruins season of a major conference team which is a result of facing teams that have athletes that take advantage of superior team's "off week"--while Boise knows they have 2-3 games a year--including a Bowl game--and it's why I detest the hype they get and the fact game was moved to start of year. At least the game is in DC--but still a joke when compared to teams who play better opposition on a more consistent basis. My "regionalization" theory of BCS Bowls has Boise in National Title game against Ohio State--who I dont' think is that good--but for some reason that damn bowl loves to have them or Oklahoma out there every damn year and know way in hell I'm taking a Brent Venables defense-not to mention their hillbilly QB can't read a book let alone coverage--he'll cost them some games being dumb. Fair enough. But wouldnt the best test of this be Boise St. facing off against and Alabama or a Ohio St. in the championship game- after all its who wins, not who played, that matters. If Boise can win against the team that is supposed to be the best then the strength of schedule doesn't matter; but if they lose then maybe they shouldnt be there and they really do benefit from a weak, front loaded schedule. Its not like Boise hides from playing good teams- its good teams that hide from playing them. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 3, 2010 0:19:01 GMT -5
My issue with Boise State-VA Tech game--it was originally scheduled in a manner that as a fan who thinks the Major Conferences deserve the National Title game due to strength of schedule-would let them prove it. They would be playing 2 solid--not dominant teams in Va Tech and Oregon State back to back--which is very similar to what the major conference teams do during a season. So what happens? ESPN gets Tech to accomodate Boise and move game to Labor Day--which is typical Boise State-have months of time to prep for 1 tough opponent--and then they can do the same for Oregon State as well. It's a joke to compare what they face to what Major conference teams face in terms of competition and so many times it's an "upset" that ruins season of a major conference team which is a result of facing teams that have athletes that take advantage of superior team's "off week"--while Boise knows they have 2-3 games a year--including a Bowl game--and it's why I detest the hype they get and the fact game was moved to start of year. At least the game is in DC--but still a joke when compared to teams who play better opposition on a more consistent basis. My "regionalization" theory of BCS Bowls has Boise in National Title game against Ohio State--who I dont' think is that good--but for some reason that damn bowl loves to have them or Oklahoma out there every damn year and know way in hell I'm taking a Brent Venables defense-not to mention their hillbilly QB can't read a book let alone coverage--he'll cost them some games being dumb. I honestly don't know the history of this particular Boise St.-- Va. Tech game, but as you detail it, I see your point, but I think it oversimplifies the issue. If the question is a general "how" should teams from weaker conferences be rated/ranked/valued/viewed compared to those in "power" conferences, then the simple answer -- and the one which makes the most sense to me -- is comparative scores over the course of the entire season. That being said, I know that opens the door for many other problems. Issues like running up the score come into play, among others. But if the issue is expanded to more broadly include teams from "lesser" conferences stepping up and playing BCS "powers," then I think the issue is much more difficult. On one hand, teams fluctuate from year to year. The TCU of last year, might not be the team of next year. Similarly, teams like Hawaii, Utah or Boise St. could vary dramatically. The same happens to teams from the "power" conferences. A Colorado, Illinois or Arakansas team from one year could vary widely a year or two later. That being said, there's no doubt that Boise St. is looking for that marquee victory over a power team that they can hang their hat on. As much as I would critique their schedule, this and most seasons, given their overall performance in recent years, I am somewhat relegated to giving them their dues. If they beat the Hokies, and if the Hokies show to be the competitive team this year that most expect, then I can't deny that the Broncos will be in the catbird seat. They will probably be favored in all remaining games, and only face one serious opponent in the Beavers. And that game will be at home. Still, as much as I hate to admit it, they will unfortunately be "deserving" of a shot at the BCS title game if there aren't two undefeated alternatives. For that reason ... Hokie Hokie High!!!! |
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 3, 2010 13:41:41 GMT -5
My issue with Boise State-VA Tech game--it was originally scheduled in a manner that as a fan who thinks the Major Conferences deserve the National Title game due to strength of schedule-would let them prove it. They would be playing 2 solid--not dominant teams in Va Tech and Oregon State back to back--which is very similar to what the major conference teams do during a season. So what happens? ESPN gets Tech to accomodate Boise and move game to Labor Day--which is typical Boise State-have months of time to prep for 1 tough opponent--and then they can do the same for Oregon State as well. It's a joke to compare what they face to what Major conference teams face in terms of competition and so many times it's an "upset" that ruins season of a major conference team which is a result of facing teams that have athletes that take advantage of superior team's "off week"--while Boise knows they have 2-3 games a year--including a Bowl game--and it's why I detest the hype they get and the fact game was moved to start of year. At least the game is in DC--but still a joke when compared to teams who play better opposition on a more consistent basis. My "regionalization" theory of BCS Bowls has Boise in National Title game against Ohio State--who I dont' think is that good--but for some reason that damn bowl loves to have them or Oklahoma out there every damn year and know way in hell I'm taking a Brent Venables defense-not to mention their hillbilly QB can't read a book let alone coverage--he'll cost them some games being dumb. Fair enough. But wouldnt the best test of this be Boise St. facing off against and Alabama or a Ohio St. in the championship game- after all its who wins, not who played, that matters. If Boise can win against the team that is supposed to be the best then the strength of schedule doesn't matter; but if they lose then maybe they shouldnt be there and they really do benefit from a weak, front loaded schedule. Its not like Boise hides from playing good teams- its good teams that hide from playing them. No--a season should be rewarded--by a championship game appearance--not for playing 2 respectable opponents--spaced out so you can prepare for that opponent. What makes it difficult for Major Conference teams is having to get through a season where you have opponents who can beat you when you aren't playing well--while Boise knows they have no issue with that. It's a lot more difficult to face a spread team one week, followed by passing team next and they are big time athletes who can make plays--not to mention back to back road games in tough atmospheres, etc.... You should reward teams for playing people--and not punish it. Im not saying Boise wouldn't win either-just that i'd like to see it. Kind of like my argument that Miami fans hate to talk about with me--how many championships would Miami have won if they actually played on neutral site/instead of a "home" game at Orange Bowl? It's not like Canes blew out Oklahome/Nebraska in most of those Orange Bowl games-and it might not have mattered but I also saw my favorite team get WORKED by Tennessee in Sugar Bowl, Alabama in Sugar Bowl, and it can't be blown off as "doesn't matter" because it's all about perception and as an Independent at the time-they could make their schedule similarly. Canes fans can't deny that home field didn't play a factor. |
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 3, 2010 17:18:30 GMT -5
The problem I have with the argument that Boise States weaker schedule should preclude them from playing in the championship is this:
If they dont lose you cant say they ARENT the best team.
You can look at their talent and say, "ok yeah they probably arent as good as so and so," but you cant say that objectively until they lose. And a team that went undefeated last year with the exact same personnel last season should get the benefit of the doubt.
The problem is that the big conference schools can lose a game and get the benefit of the doubt. Yeah you played a tougher season but you still lost a game- if you are the best team then shouldnt have lost. (note this only applies the acid trip that is college football and not to say college basketball)
This all gets solved by scraping the BS BCS and having an 8 team play off.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Sept 3, 2010 18:10:08 GMT -5
All the more reason for a playoff.
RDF is correct that teams facing tougher schedules week in and week out have a much more difficult path than a team like Boise. But Boise can't just go out and join the SEC or the Big 10/11/12. So what can Boise do other than attempt to schedule strong non-conference games? They are moving to a stronger conference, and that's a step in the right direction, but it's still not the SEC.
Absent a playoff, my inclination is to at least consider Boise (or TCU) if they are the only unbeaten team. Of course, if, say, Nebraska and LSU each go 11-1, then strength of schedule has to be taken into account. There's no black and white answer here - I don't think you can refuse to consider a Boise or a TCU for the championship game just because they are not from a BCS conference.
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