prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,352
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Post by prhoya on Sept 28, 2011 13:05:31 GMT -5
III's going to get good players as long as he listens to the right people and this should be final nail in coffin for the 2 guys who have done nothing and eventually lead to Broadus being promoted and possibly Othella as well, or at least have an opportunity to upgrade the staff. This year reminds me of when he was first hired--and it follows pattern--they are getting listed, in-homes, visits, etc.....but will land a decent but not hyped class. Core Group they signed last year is going to be the one that hopefully gets them back on track--fits the system they prefer to play--big, versatile, etc.....and then when you have a real staff to compliment III/Kirby instead of the 2 others who are about as useful as Bill Shapland at a Biggest Loser casting call, then you'll start landing top tier players. Longer you let 2 guys be on the road who can't close or help you out, then you won't land players. Other programs maximize the on the road recruiting with great staffs--Hoyas have III/Kirby--and next year it will hopefully change. If not-expect them to have to hit on guys who are developmental or late bloomers because an Ivy League/Mid Major staff has done exactly what they do--proven they recruit like it and in all honesty--they can't even land that type of player either. Tell us how you really feel.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,352
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Post by prhoya on Sept 28, 2011 13:18:08 GMT -5
a player that transforms a collection of solid recruits into a team that legitimately competes for a national title. Without looking into it (and with a sandwich in hand), I don't think there are that many examples of freshmen coming in and changing programs that year. Btw, IMO, Kentucky is out of the equation because a collection of freshmen stars is not a good example of a solid team. But, I do think the Kyle would have been that player for our 2012 team. Since it's such a rare occurrence for a freshman to change the outlook of a program, I think it's more doable to have something like UCon had last year, where you get very good recruits who come in, are ready to play from Day 1 and fill the role(s) needed to win it all, but are not the star(s) of the team right away.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Sept 28, 2011 14:14:49 GMT -5
III's going to get good players as long as he listens to the right people and this should be final nail in coffin for the 2 guys who have done nothing and eventually lead to Broadus being promoted and possibly Othella as well, or at least have an opportunity to upgrade the staff. This year reminds me of when he was first hired--and it follows pattern--they are getting listed, in-homes, visits, etc.....but will land a decent but not hyped class. Core Group they signed last year is going to be the one that hopefully gets them back on track--fits the system they prefer to play--big, versatile, etc.....and then when you have a real staff to compliment III/Kirby instead of the 2 others who are about as useful as Bill Shapland at a Biggest Loser casting call, then you'll start landing top tier players. Longer you let 2 guys be on the road who can't close or help you out, then you won't land players. Other programs maximize the on the road recruiting with great staffs--Hoyas have III/Kirby--and next year it will hopefully change. If not-expect them to have to hit on guys who are developmental or late bloomers because an Ivy League/Mid Major staff has done exactly what they do--proven they recruit like it and in all honesty--they can't even land that type of player either. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Hunter was the lead recruiter for both Jabril and Whittington.... I also thought he recruited Semaj too? Semaj ended up where? NOT Georgetown Hunter was on Jabril--hosted him for an unofficial and Trawick left listing Florida State as his leader. On his official--III took it over and sold him. Whittington was recruited by III/Kirby--and Pops did more work for Georgetown then Hunter. Hunter has done a nice job with TJ Warren--but it also has helped that Warren has family in DC. Can he help close? Everyone of Hunter's "guys" have had chaos--Lubick with the de-commitment rumors--the visit with Trawick which thankfully was salvaged, and the complete mess that was Semaj Christon recruitment--that kid should've been a Hoya/would've been a Hoya and you wouldn't be reaching for a stubby/homeless version of Scottie Reynolds. We dont even need to mention how useless Brennan has been on the trail. Best part of a Hoya recruiting update--when you hear "Assistants from Georgetown were present" you damn well know that it's either Hunter or Brennan because they have no presence nationally and schools/kids don't mention them to interviewer. Compare that to when Kirby's involved? A bit different wouldn't you say? Was at one tournament this summer where a kid Georgetown is recruiting was "disappointed they didn't come to see him play" and I had to tell him they were there to see him--it just wasn't Kirby or III--and what does that tell you??
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Sept 28, 2011 14:26:30 GMT -5
RDF is on a warpath. Go get em shunnn. You know what Bronxitos says about recruiting
Being enlightened is no longer enough You must apply Being willing is no longer acceptable You must do Make it count
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,948
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 28, 2011 18:47:27 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Hunter was the lead recruiter for both Jabril and Whittington.... I also thought he recruited Semaj too? Semaj ended up where? NOT Georgetown Hunter was on Jabril--hosted him for an unofficial and Trawick left listing Florida State as his leader. On his official--III took it over and sold him. Whittington was recruited by III/Kirby--and Pops did more work for Georgetown then Hunter. Hunter has done a nice job with TJ Warren--but it also has helped that Warren has family in DC. Can he help close? Everyone of Hunter's "guys" have had chaos--Lubick with the de-commitment rumors--the visit with Trawick which thankfully was salvaged, and the complete mess that was Semaj Christon recruitment--that kid should've been a Hoya/would've been a Hoya and you wouldn't be reaching for a stubby/homeless version of Scottie Reynolds. We dont even need to mention how useless Brennan has been on the trail. Best part of a Hoya recruiting update--when you hear "Assistants from Georgetown were present" you damn well know that it's either Hunter or Brennan because they have no presence nationally and schools/kids don't mention them to interviewer. Compare that to when Kirby's involved? A bit different wouldn't you say? Was at one tournament this summer where a kid Georgetown is recruiting was "disappointed they didn't come to see him play" and I had to tell him they were there to see him--it just wasn't Kirby or III--and what does that tell you?? You're really gonna blame Hunter for JT3 not offering Semaj a scholarship? The reason I mentioned Semaj was due to the many reports the kid "loved" Gtown but he never received an offer which has to come from the head coach. Who's to blame for Rysheed Jordan not having an offer right now? As for Jabril, he stated in his recruitment that "Schools can recruit me, but it doesn’t mean nothing if I don’t have the offer" Jabril already had an offer from FSU when he was on his unofficial at G'town so it makes perfect sense that FSU would be his leader when he left G'town. Jabril took his official with G'town, got an offer from the head coach and accepted. Isn't the head coach supposed to take over on official visits and close recruits? Blaming Hunter for Duke starting rumors about Nate re-opening his recruitment is kind of silly in my opinion. Hunter isn't Kirby but he's not the coach who left for Rutgers either, that's all I'm sayin... And I have no idea either what Brennan does
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 28, 2011 20:27:48 GMT -5
They way JT3 has seemed to set up his staff was to have 1 Princeton guy who presumably was there for coaching and development(Burke, Brennan) and then two recruiting assistants.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by alleninxis on Sept 28, 2011 21:00:00 GMT -5
As I had a friend put it once...Do Kirby's targets ever have to wait for an offer? What does that say? Maybe III is hesitant to trust Hunter to be pro-active with his guys. How many times have we heard that III 'needs to watch' certain kids before offering the past 2-3 years? How many of those were Kirby kids? I don't think any.
There was more to the Lubick stuff than any internet rumors. It was real and III was in Springfield, MA with Hunter the next day to watch Nate and tidy things up.
Jabril did not come away impressed the first time he visited G'Town. Yes, a head coach needs to take over and close...he should NOT have to win someone back.
Hunter is the same as Cox as far as I can tell. Or it at least has made the same type of impact. And it's been underwhelming, to put it nicely.
On the note of having a 'Princeton' guy..honestly, what's the point after 7 years? Especially if we're supposed to open things up more...and III is quick to shoot down any association with the term 'Princeton' why does he NEED a Princeton guy on staff? As fans that follow this program closely, we know it's actually a good to great offense and lately we've played at a quicker pace (likely a quicker pace than some of the schools that undermine us on the trail ie Pitt) and improves skill-sets but it's horrible to be associated with when recruiting.
In DSR's recent update on scout he went as far to say, "As far as basketball, the system that they have, it isn't as bad as a lot of people were making it out to seem"
That's a terrible hurdle to have to overcome with every single guard you recruit. This is an overweight slow-footed 6'1 combo guard that is told this/has this perception...what the heck is an uber-athletic guard like Rysheed Jordan going to have put in his ear from other programs?
I'm not saying to overhaul things with how III runs his offense, I like the offense we run (a lot), but I do not see any impact Brennan has made X&O wise or in skill development. If someone has noticed something, I'd be happy to hear it. And it's obvious recruiting is not his strong suit & never will be. So why tie yourself to a Princeton guy (and keep the pipeline going with Greenman) if you get offended by people associating YOUR system to 'Princeton'?
I don't think our offensive system is intricate enough to not allow yourself to go outside of a 'family'. Any assistant worth his weight will be able to pick it up quickly and be able to teach it.
I also believe those from outside will not look for 'fit', they're looking for the best players. (ie Kirby & Broadus) Why III wouldn't want to continually seek out athletic/aggressive/self-starters..I don't know. As a coach, and teacher his strong suit is improving skill sets.
I'm a little all over the place with this rant but..bottom line to me--III is a good coach, but IMO, he has done a disservice to himself with the post-original staffs he has had.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
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Post by idhoya on Sept 28, 2011 21:22:58 GMT -5
I think the more noticeable issue has been that the hoyas haven't put together back to back outstanding classes like the Duke's, UNC's and Ohio State's. Cal markets his program as one and done, so they don't count. Hoyas can get one good class, but can they string multiple top 10 classes together. The foundation is set with this class, now let's go get some top 5 classes. '13 has that potential. We'll see.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 28, 2011 21:30:58 GMT -5
I'm a little all over the place with this rant but..bottom line to me--III is a good coach, but IMO, he has done a disservice to himself with the post-original staffs he has had. I'd agree with that, but we don't know why. By choice? All he could afford? We do know JT3 had to go to the mat to get a big payscale upgrade to bring Kirby in.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Sept 29, 2011 0:00:03 GMT -5
Semaj ended up where? NOT Georgetown Hunter was on Jabril--hosted him for an unofficial and Trawick left listing Florida State as his leader. On his official--III took it over and sold him. Whittington was recruited by III/Kirby--and Pops did more work for Georgetown then Hunter. Hunter has done a nice job with TJ Warren--but it also has helped that Warren has family in DC. Can he help close? Everyone of Hunter's "guys" have had chaos--Lubick with the de-commitment rumors--the visit with Trawick which thankfully was salvaged, and the complete mess that was Semaj Christon recruitment--that kid should've been a Hoya/would've been a Hoya and you wouldn't be reaching for a stubby/homeless version of Scottie Reynolds. We dont even need to mention how useless Brennan has been on the trail. Best part of a Hoya recruiting update--when you hear "Assistants from Georgetown were present" you damn well know that it's either Hunter or Brennan because they have no presence nationally and schools/kids don't mention them to interviewer. Compare that to when Kirby's involved? A bit different wouldn't you say? Was at one tournament this summer where a kid Georgetown is recruiting was "disappointed they didn't come to see him play" and I had to tell him they were there to see him--it just wasn't Kirby or III--and what does that tell you?? You're really gonna blame Hunter for JT3 not offering Semaj a scholarship? The reason I mentioned Semaj was due to the many reports the kid "loved" Gtown but he never received an offer which has to come from the head coach. Who's to blame for Rysheed Jordan not having an offer right now? As for Jabril, he stated in his recruitment that "Schools can recruit me, but it doesn’t mean nothing if I don’t have the offer" Jabril already had an offer from FSU when he was on his unofficial at G'town so it makes perfect sense that FSU would be his leader when he left G'town. Jabril took his official with G'town, got an offer from the head coach and accepted. Isn't the head coach supposed to take over on official visits and close recruits? Blaming Hunter for Duke starting rumors about Nate re-opening his recruitment is kind of silly in my opinion. Hunter isn't Kirby but he's not the coach who left for Rutgers either, that's all I'm sayin... And I have no idea either what Brennan does As Alleninxis pointed out and he spoke with Trawick, Christon, and Lubick personally--things aren't as clear as you seem to believe. Talked to a good friend of mine and he simply asked me: why do people defend Hunter and were so quick to bash Cox? Are the results not quite similar? Failure and what does Hunter bring to the table? What does he do to help develop players? What does he do to help recruit? He has no trust from his boss--as was pointed out--Kirby's guys get offered and get offered quickly. Broadus was able to offer kids too. Or should I say the HC trusted their voice more. I can only share what I personally experienced and seeing kids at tournaments where Hunter/Brennan are present or have been listed as being in attendance (they show on a monitor or sign in sheet who is listed as in attendance--that is if Johnny Jungle deleted ) and hearing them talk about schools/talking with them and they don't even know who the assistants are watching them? That's disturbing if you ask me, but if you want to keep believing Hunter is a great fit--I simply ask why? What's he do? To me, he should've been shown the door with Dave Cox and I've often argued the very point Alleninxis made about III's attitude towards being "tied" with Princeton system and then hiring so many damn Princeton guys. Can't be mad if you give them the ammo to use against you.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 29, 2011 8:59:22 GMT -5
I think the real issue with trying to discuss the value of assistant coaches is we're not there in practices or with the team behind the scenes. So we have no clue what coaches bring to the table in terms of actually coaching and player development. The best we can see is recruiting. For all we known Hunter could be a great coach and really adds something to player development and in game coaching. With Cox it seemed like our players really liked him, don't know if he brought anything to the table besides that, but he at least had a good rapport with the team.. The bottom line you need to find people who can help develop players, coach AND are good recruiters. I'm not saying any of our guys are above criticism. I was very anti Cox, and I would love to upgrade Hunter and Brennan. However, I just think it's important to note that we have no window into how these guys are doing in the other half of their duties as an assistant coach.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Oct 3, 2011 19:20:57 GMT -5
According to Zags and confirmed by TP via phone call, he DID NOT cut Hoyas or Memphis from his list. Same 5 as before. Still don't think he comes.
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
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Post by KirbyKeger on Oct 3, 2011 19:37:54 GMT -5
Any chance we can get him to come for Midnight Madness? Could be our only crack at it.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 3, 2011 22:13:35 GMT -5
It's funny because the two times that this has been thrown out that he has cut Georgetown and Memphis it's been by the local beat writer for Georgia and Georgia Tech who are both trying to get on his list.
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KirbyKeger on Oct 4, 2011 14:08:55 GMT -5
We went to see him today
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
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Post by idhoya on Oct 4, 2011 14:11:30 GMT -5
III covering bases. Was with Meeks yesterday.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Oct 4, 2011 14:14:01 GMT -5
Do you know which members of the staff? Thanks drd.
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tonyparker
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 632
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Post by tonyparker on Oct 6, 2011 15:09:45 GMT -5
Visiting Georgetown the weekend of October 22nd.
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
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Post by KirbyKeger on Oct 6, 2011 15:12:46 GMT -5
Homecoming weekend. NICE!
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Oct 7, 2011 8:04:52 GMT -5
Visiting Georgetown the weekend of October 22nd. Always Be Closing NSFW Guy don't walk on the lot 'less he wants to buy.
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