Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 25, 2010 9:03:31 GMT -5
There is some consternation over the President skipping the traditional wreath-laying ceremony at Arlington on Memorial Day. I'm quite sure that if he is, in fact, going to skip that traditional ceremony, he must be doing something really important like going down to see what the hell is happening in the Gulf of Mexico. Either that or vactioning in Chicago. Tone deaf, much?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 25, 2010 10:10:33 GMT -5
I'm inclined to cut him a bit of slack on this one, since he is going to the Lincoln Cemetery in Chicago, which is also the resting place of many veterans.
Still, I can't remember the last time there was a Memorial Day where the President didn't visit Arlington.
Then again, my memory ain't what it used to be. I don't ever remember him not going, but it wouldn't shock me to learn that George Bush might have missed it one year. I can't remember, but I think one year he visited Normandy on Memorial Day? Is that right?
I don't know. I'm frickin' senile. I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 25, 2010 17:34:13 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 25, 2010 17:57:22 GMT -5
Like I said, this is not a big deal for me, but just a note to Media Matters that Veterans Day is not really the same as Memorial Day.
Yes, Veterans Day is an occasion to honor fallen troops, but it's more a day to honor veterans, i.e. - living ones.
Memorial Day is a little different.
But whatever. MM almost certainly doesn't care.
(the back and forth bet. RedState and Media Matters is sorta' entertaining...if you're kinda bored and there's no Lost on tonight.)
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 25, 2010 18:13:28 GMT -5
This isn't, and shouldn't be a big deal. I am curious as to how many actual veterans we have on this board. Just idle curiousity, since I am one -- one of the reasons why I think Blumenthal is an absolute disgrace. (And the fact that my late father was Vietnam vet from an Other Government Agency, choppered off the roof of the US Embassy, April 30, 1975)
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 25, 2010 19:20:04 GMT -5
I am not a veteran, but I have a couple in my family, father and older brothers (even more if I count my extended family.) And many of my friends here in DC are veterans of Iraq & Afghanistan.
I haven't spoken to them yet; I'll see many of them this weekend. But my guess, based on previous conversations, is that most of them won't really consider this a big deal. But then again, most of them didn't really respect Obama -- or think he respects them -- to begin with.
Purely anecdotal of course, for the record.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 25, 2010 19:34:02 GMT -5
Fair enough. I don't think most vets on either Memorial Day or Veterans Day think that much about the Commander-in-Chief, either the incumbent or the one under whom they may have served. Rather, I think most think of the men (or women) they may have served with.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 25, 2010 22:22:56 GMT -5
The irony of asking people to lay off Obama when Bush got crucified for everything from War Crimes to wearing white after labor day. I dont like either guy but i am a fan of situational irony
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TC
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Post by TC on May 25, 2010 23:30:47 GMT -5
The irony of asking people to lay off Obama when Bush got crucified for everything from War Crimes to wearing white after labor day. I dont like either guy but i am a fan of situational irony You do realize that the only guy asking people to lay off of Obama in this thread is Elvado, right? It kind of turns your situational irony into Alanis Morissette irony territory.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 25, 2010 23:58:43 GMT -5
The irony of asking people to lay off Obama when Bush got crucified for everything from War Crimes to wearing white after labor day. I dont like either guy but i am a fan of situational irony You do realize that the only guy asking people to lay off of Obama in this thread is Elvado, right? It kind of turns your situational irony into Alanis Morissette irony territory. enh, i dont really pay attention enough to remember who is on what side, so maybe i pulled a Morissette, but no i did not realize it.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 26, 2010 5:56:39 GMT -5
Credit where credit is due: Mr. Obama will finally visit the Gulf. I like to think my input helped.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on May 26, 2010 8:05:52 GMT -5
The irony of asking people to lay off Obama when Bush got crucified for everything from War Crimes to wearing white after labor day. I dont like either guy but i am a fan of situational irony You do realize that the only guy asking people to lay off of Obama in this thread is Elvado, right? It kind of turns your situational irony into Alanis Morissette irony territory. Yeah, but his point still stands. If the Bush Administration was still in power and handled this BP oil mess like the Obama administration is handling it, I can't imagine what the media and the talking heads would be doing now. The current President basically gets a free pass on most things and I think it is willful blindness to not agree (not aiming this at you, TC, just venting some frustration with Obama, on the one hand, but more with the unbelievable tragedy that is happening out in the gulf).
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on May 26, 2010 9:28:59 GMT -5
Credit where credit is due: Mr. Obama will finally visit the Gulf. I like to think my input helped. Well, he's not doing anything else, so I'm pretty sure he is checking Hoyatalk religiously for direction on what his next step should be .
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TC
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Post by TC on May 26, 2010 10:13:13 GMT -5
Yeah, but his point still stands. If the Bush Administration was still in power and handled this BP oil mess like the Obama administration is handling it, I can't imagine what the media and the talking heads would be doing now. So? They represent different stances on oil development, regulation of the oil industry, liability of the oil industry, and environmental protection. Why should they be treated the same? If an Iraqi-grown terrorist struck the US, I guarantee that Obama would be treated differently than Bush. And just for the record, I'm not pleading anyone to lay off Obama for the BP spill.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 26, 2010 10:44:43 GMT -5
Because at this moment in time, the issues you mentioned, while certainly related, are at best only tangential to the actual crisis.
I think Filo's point didn't really have much to do with the nature of the emergency, just a general observation about overall emergency management.
Put another way, if George Bush had taken a month to visit the Gulf Coast after this oil spill, Kanye West would be on TV saying that George Bush hates paddlefish.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 26, 2010 11:23:47 GMT -5
Put another way, if George Bush had taken a month to visit the Gulf Coast after this oil spill, Kanye West would be on TV saying that George Bush hates paddlefish. Can you blame him? Kanye's a fish. Don't agree that the issues are tangential.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 26, 2010 12:20:57 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 26, 2010 12:27:40 GMT -5
Thanks. The link is interesting. Especially liked the part about the "relentless, all hands on deck" approach. Who knew? If this response by the Feds has been "relentless" and "all hands on deck", thank God they didn't mail it in. I think this "relentless" , "all hands on deck" approach has the same vitality as the President's efforts on jobs and the economy. Remember he will not rest until the jobs thing is fixed. He may not rest, but he's going on his second vacation in a month.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 26, 2010 12:43:17 GMT -5
I guess the issue is - what are the feds supposed to do here. I think they could have done more and should have done more, but what is more? Not an easy question to answer, particularly where the cleanup responsibility falls on BP to clean it up. I think there could have been the spill containment things in place that weren't - don't know how that snafu arose, maybe appropriations or lack of funding request. Jindal has come up with the idea of setting up barrier islands - that's good - will help with containment.
The second bit of reality is that the government won't have a ready made solution for defective products, like the shut-off valve malfunction. They won't have a game plan for when a company pumps more oil than permissible and does not check off the various compliance boxes that are put in place. They've sent in the people who would know how to fix this, and they simply don't know any more than a trial and error approach would give you.
The crisis also, I hope, questions our assumptions about public vs. private. Problems with government are plain to see - you have your long lines in any DMV or tax instructions that are a mile long. Well, fact is, we can't rely on private companies any more than our local DMV to get things right or to churn out good, accurate product.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on May 26, 2010 13:11:08 GMT -5
Thanks. The link is interesting. Especially liked the part about the "relentless, all hands on deck" approach. Who knew? If this response by the Feds has been "relentless" and "all hands on deck", thank God they didn't mail it in. I think this "relentless" , "all hands on deck" approach has the same vitality as the President's efforts on jobs and the economy. Remember he will not rest until the jobs thing is fixed. He may not rest, but he's going on his second vacation in a month. But for the past few months I've had Tea Partiers and Republicans telling me how bad government intervention is, and that we should just leave everything to the private sector. If the government were to push the private company (BP) aside in this case, wouldn't that be socialism?
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