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Post by westendhoya on Apr 12, 2012 11:09:38 GMT -5
Nice post RDF
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 11:09:41 GMT -5
5. TC mentioned Alonzo's recruitment and how it was different. Funny thing is--a lot of coaches complained about Pops relationship with Nike's (at the time) Sonny Vaccaro and how he was pushing Alonzo to Georgetown and making visits to see Zo and push him to Georgetown. Agree completely - the one thing I'd say though is that I'm not sure the shoe companies have the same impact right now - ESPN does though, like SirSaxa said. You choose a major school from one of the ESPN conferences - the SEC and the ACC - you get favorable coverage, you get more attention, maybe Dave Telep ranks you higher - you can get your shoe deal off of that. I think they have a lot more influence on these decisions now than the shoe companies had before.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 12, 2012 11:24:04 GMT -5
I don't buy the ESPN smokescreen or Nerlens just lead everyone on theories.
I get the feeling that Nerlens was flipped by Calipari within the last hour after Shabazz's announcement.
The whole thing seems almost like an elaborate troll job but Boumtje, Balla and the rest of the experts who said that it was a done deal in the last 3 hours couldn't have all been in on it.
Every prospect I've ever seen is happy to announce where they are going (watch Shabazz's announcement). Nerlens seemed calm at the beginning of the show when he walked into the complex but by the time he announced one and a half hours later he looked like he had a gun to his head and looked scared when he announced Kentucky.
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Post by pr20 on Apr 12, 2012 11:24:41 GMT -5
It doesnt matter how I would promote the program. My statement was in response to you bashing a KID over some less than genuine interest that he may have expressed in the program. And how it is inappropriate to call him not concerned about the "proper" things as it relates to college since he did not pick georgetown. You don't know why he liked the hoyas. Maybe he was intrigued by the DC culture and city atmosphere that may have been more appealing than the lexington small town feel. Maybe he was impressed with the tradition and the accessibility to former Gtown greats that are always around. Maybe he thought that being in close proximity to Howard univesity where the chicks are in abundance was something that would peak his interest. WE DON"T KNOW. So you cannot carelessly criticise his decision when we do not know what it was based on. UK just had the most phenomenal year of one single player in recent history with Anthony Davis. That is hard to pull away from ultimately. It doesn't make him a person of sullied character the way you present him for chosing that school. It also doesnt mean that he wsa never really uncertain about his decision. He could have really been struggling and that immediate gratification of the UK program was just too much to turn down.
And how convenient of you to only cite a portion of the definitions.
Fame-the state of being WIDELY KNOWN or recognized; renown; celebrity
Notoriety-the state, quality, or character of being notorious or WIDELY KNOWN
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 12, 2012 11:25:43 GMT -5
Not nearly as upset as a lot of you because I was terrified he was going to Syracuse--and can live with Kentucky. That makes sense basketball wise. The show itself--that's nature of beast. If Ewing/Mourning etc...came along these days--the same type of environment would surround their recruitment. I don't blame the young man--he's just doing what many do and he warned everyone he was going to do something "special" for his announcement. Guess because I follow CFB recruiting-this stuff doesn't bother me. Not like some of those guys do it either--at least he didn't pick up the Hoya hat, and then throw it down/away and unveil a UK jersey-as you see with CFB recruits constantly partake in. A few issues that need to be considered: 1. Hoyas team didn't lose last night--they never had him. So you have a nice nucleus returning and need to add a few parts--that is still very achievable. Told a few Hoya fans last night--i'm much more concerned with the fallout of Noel picking UK/Muhammed UCLA in regards to Devonta Pollard. Watchout for Kentucky to push for him now that Muhammed picked Bruins and that's why this weekend is huge for Hoyas. Need to lock him up this weekend before Kentucky convinces him to take a visit. 2. Upshaw becomes a big time focus--and if Hoyas get him-they get a 3 year minimum player and offensive weapon at the 5 spot. Guy is further along then Hibbert offensively and cut body fat from 30% to 13% last year--so he's willing to work. Legit 7'0 and would be a great piece to program. If Hoyas land he/Pollard--they have a top 10 class. 3. I'm far more concerned with PG position and wish someone would become available or on the radar. DSR isn't a PG. He's coming off knee injuries in 2 of last 3 years (any knee injury is serious) and he's not a great athlete to begin with. He's an undersized 2G and that leaves Starks who is a ? mark going into his JR year and Jabril--who I know will work on his game but isn't a true PG either. That position has to be focal point of this program moving forward imo. Even if it's to get a quick/athletic ball handler over a skilled shooter-they need it. 4. The hate on Noel's game/impact is silly. Guy is a program changer and can impact games without scoring--and when you have that--it's a special talent. If he averages what Cosmopolitan said--that would be more then enough to justify his hype. He's also type that might end up staying 2 years in college--depending on how quickly he develops face up game and strength. If he wasn't that good--you think Georgetown would've went in as hard as they did with all the frontcourt depth they have? 5. TC mentioned Alonzo's recruitment and how it was different. Funny thing is--a lot of coaches complained about Pops relationship with Nike's (at the time) Sonny Vaccaro and how he was pushing Alonzo to Georgetown and making visits to see Zo and push him to Georgetown. Now I don't know if there is any validity to that-because I was 12 at time of recruitment, no internet/media coverage like you have today, but the rumors/allegations were fired from his finalists/whispered about. I think Alonzo was a Hoya lock due to his idolization of Patrick Ewing and success of program during 1980's--but just saying--those rumors/allegations were fired at Georgetown--specifically the relationship of Pops/Sonny--and remember Hoyas were flagship program for Nike (new uniforms/shoes for March, team gear, etc..UNC didn't become Nike affiliated until 1990's--same with Duke, Kentucky, etc...you had Gtown as "Force" school and Cuse/UNLV as "flight" schools-) The "rumors" are just that. Dave Telep says early in day-and Dave is a wonderful guy--a true fan of game and doesn't do crap to promote ratings, etc..."none of the teams recruiting Nerlens knows where he's going", which from Telep's perspective is likely true--he isn't going to be in on the deals done behind closed doors--and minute he knew was when the kid had back to him/Biancardi and he could see UK in back of his head. But it was others "hearing Georgetown......" and they based that off what exactly? Dorcina had as much influence as all of us did in this recruitment. If you want to believe "mom had a lot to say about this"--Mom doesn't know what the hell is going on--her son went from home to play HS ball in New Hampshire, and what was her say there? Not like Everett HS is a challenged academic environment. Georgetown courted mom because that was how they had to--what were they going to do--try to win over Driscoll and Randolph? The two guys who moved him from Everett after DiBiaso got Georgetown involved? As for those who speak to "ethics" in college sports, you need to understand how recruiting works. Coaches will claim another coach is dying, has Cancer, is a criminal, is leaving to take other jobs, has recruited over them, etc......and that is the NICE stuff that goes on. When you are in a multi million dollar industry and have pressure-you see how people handle it. The kids are getting used by adults who want to profit off them but claim they've "helped guide" them. Kid figures as long as I get paid--he's "helping". Well they dont' understand exchange rate-as in we're getting 6 figures--and you'll get most of it and when you turn pro-I get my cut from Agency running this charade. Kids don't understand that crap--they just figure it's fun/people want me to play there, this team wins/puts guys in league, I can go there....etc...and if you are going to talk up education-then don't waste time with guys like Noel--he's 2 years at best in college. I love Georgetown-but education is something that doesn't matter to a kid who is #1 recruit in country. He can go back to school or graduate if something happens to him injury wise-but he's in it to be a pro basketball player and I don't blame him and as a fan I love that I get to see elite players play in college--and wish he'd picked Georgetown--knowing he's not a student athlete but rather a temporary student and full time athlete. I know what Hoya program stands for-guys go to class, graduate, etc...so if they take a 1 and done--fine by me. It's just 1 guy out of entire team of 13. As for Kentucky, the reason they didn't have their guys enter draft at this week's deadline. Their prospects are set in where they are going or in Lamb's case he can guage whether he's going or not-rumors are he could stay-but they also make sure these guys attend their classes and later you make decision--closer to end of semester you are-and you can mock how invested they are--but as long as they do this and even if it's just in appearance--NCAA can't punish them/how they are running their program. Main thing is for Hoyas to focus on what they can control--and that's to finish up strong with 1/2 recruits to finish this class up and then offseason development. Coaches can work with players in offseason this year--individually and that has changed from past years. Push hard for improvement/add a few pieces and still on upward track. Upshaw for Georgetown isn't a step down from Noel--he's perfect fit and brings a lot--but he's not Noel's upside/defensive presence. Noel would've brought III a different player than what people associate with program and that was the biggest benefit aside from getting a talented player. But Upshaw is someone program has proven they can develop (Roy--like) and utilize and he would make game a lot easier for teammates. Pollard moves Whittington to 2 guard and you can throw Porter/Pollard/Whittington at people and that trio takes a backseat to nobody in terms of wing talent-I think Whittington is a more talented player then Hollis-just not the shooter--although I think he will be by time he's done. PG/Lead Guard is key to next year's team--and would've been even if Nerlens decided on Georgetown. That spot produces--this is a BE/BET championship contender. This. It's been killing me reading people tear down this kid for how the process played out and all of the hot air being spewed about yesterday when they know that none of that would have mattered if he chose Georgetown. If you deny that, then you're just lying to yourself. For those that say we don't need him or he would have been a luxury, again, you need more people. We're all adults, act like it. Even if we did get Noel, how far this team went next season would've still depended on the growth of players already on this team. Noel would've started from day one, but do any of us truly have a grasp on what we can expect from our backcourt? What about who would've played alongside Noel and who was going to back him up? Winning recruiting battles for guys like Noel are the lifeblood of title contenders, but just having him alone wouldn't have guaranteed anything without the development of our returning players. I say all that to say, if you're truly jaded about the whole recruiting process after this, then focus on what we have instead of what was never ours to begin with.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 11:28:38 GMT -5
I get the feeling that Nerlens was flipped by Calipari within the last hour after Shabazz's announcement. So Calipari not only got him to change his mind, but they just happened to have a barber on set in Bristol, CT to shave UK into the back of his neck on emergency notice. I assume he had a G shaved back there beforehand, and they put some sort of miracle hair grow cream on at the last minute, so they could reshave a UK in there? Good god. The reason they can sell these lies is that some of you buy it hook, line, and sinker even after the fact.
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Apr 12, 2012 11:31:56 GMT -5
I get the feeling that Nerlens was flipped by Calipari within the last hour after Shabazz's announcement. So Calipari not only got him to change his mind, but they just happened to have a barber on set in Bristol, CT to shave UK into the back of his neck on emergency notice. I assume he had a G shaved back there beforehand, and they put some sort of miracle hair grow cream on at the last minute, so they could reshave a UK in there? Good god. The reason they can sell these lies is that some of you buy it hook, line, and sinker even after the fact. Yea its called hair and makeup. Every studio set has it.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 12, 2012 11:34:23 GMT -5
I get the feeling that Nerlens was flipped by Calipari within the last hour after Shabazz's announcement. So Calipari not only got him to change his mind, but they just happened to have a barber on set in Bristol, CT to shave UK into the back of his neck on emergency notice. I assume he had a G shaved back there beforehand, and they put some sort of miracle hair grow cream on at the last minute, so they could reshave a UK in there? Good god. The reason they can sell these lies is that some of you buy it hook, line, and sinker even after the fact. Calipari's flipped people before. I'd rather believe that then that it was some evil scheme by Boujtme, Balla, ESPN and the kid. You can get off your mightier than though high horse you're always riding.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 11:34:34 GMT -5
Yea its called hair and makeup. Every studio set has it. Epic facepalm.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 12, 2012 11:34:58 GMT -5
5. TC mentioned Alonzo's recruitment and how it was different. Funny thing is--a lot of coaches complained about Pops relationship with Nike's (at the time) Sonny Vaccaro and how he was pushing Alonzo to Georgetown and making visits to see Zo and push him to Georgetown. Agree completely - the one thing I'd say though is that I'm not sure the shoe companies have the same impact right now - ESPN does though, like SirSaxa said. You choose a major school from one of the ESPN conferences - the SEC and the ACC - you get favorable coverage, you get more attention, maybe Dave Telep ranks you higher - you can get your shoe deal off of that. I think they have a lot more influence on these decisions now than the shoe companies had before. The whole ESPN did this, ESPN did that angle is pure B.S. I was on the frontlines there for over six years, and it's crazy when I read some of the stuff they get accused of. When you're in production meetings or planning long-term projects, this type of stuff is the furthest thing from any of our minds.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 12, 2012 11:37:09 GMT -5
And the production yesterday was at the ERT facility in Charlotte, not in Bristol.
And if it was in Bristol, there is not one person in hair and makeup that could've given Noel that kind of cut.
Fact.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 12:03:14 GMT -5
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 12, 2012 12:05:11 GMT -5
Guys--he's gone-let it go.
If the conspiracy theory of the haircut was true-why did he cover his head at beginning of show and wait until end to unveil it? No reason to do this--he was done deal for them prior to even walking on the set.
Here's the positive--and people might not like hearing this-the more often you put yourself in position to land to an elite player--the odds go up of you eventually getting a guy. For a program that can point to positive momentum for 1st time since '07 season--'08 if you count anticipation although results didn't match---it's a great step. Just keep improving/winning games and especially in March--and recruiting will take care of itself. It sucks to "lose" a great recruiting battle-but it's about what happens with who does join in--what Calipari said is true for all programs--you have to be all in--or don't come. The guys who do choose Georgetown and work, it'll pay off. This rising Soph group is going to get Hoyas another Big East title before they leave and I think will have them back in Sweet 16-if not further. Just need to add pieces around them-and still have a great shot to land 2 top prospects which would make huge difference. Nerlens is a great player--but 2 players are better then 1 and if you land Upshaw/Pollard--you have them longer and can build a team. Georgetown can't function like Kentucky--and it's not as good of a program right now-but that doesn't mean it can't reach same goal--just by different method and that starts with finishing strong and continuing to get into these battles on recruiting front. Never know when you'll get a kid who wants to make his OWN statement/legacy.
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Apr 12, 2012 12:16:41 GMT -5
Yea its called hair and makeup. Every studio set has it. Epic facepalm. You must be an idiot. First off I was not suggesting that anyone in ESPN had anything to do with what he cut into his hair. I actually believe they didn't. But to say that there was absolutely no one on that set that could cut that in his hair is absolutely ridiculous. It takes a skilled barber and I'm sure they hired one to give every player there a trim who was going to appear on TV. So go ahead and hit yourself in the face again, I wouldn't mind.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Apr 12, 2012 12:26:37 GMT -5
We got played.....or maybe not. Whatever. Let's get Pollard and then Upshaw and then we beat UK in next year's tourney. Won't that be sweet? As Joe Kennedy said: "revenge is a dish best served cold". But not too cold, next March.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 12:30:06 GMT -5
But to say that there was absolutely no one on that set that could cut that in his hair is absolutely ridiculous. The original poster suggested that he changed his mind *AFTER 7:45 PM* when the show started, which is patently ludicrous. No one on set is going to shave a UK into his head between 7:45 and when he's going to go on camera, I don't care how good the hair and makeup department is. This decision was made at least 4 or 5 days ago - at least before the "shock the world" tweet because no one is going to post that they are going to "shock the world" based on a decision they have yet to make - which makes all the "he'll sign with Georgetown" stuff yesterday orchestrated and fake. I'm not saying Boumtje or Balla or whoever else is lying - I'm saying someone close to Noel lied, and then that person told other people who weren't in on the real decision. Boumtje or Balla just passed it along what they heard.
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Post by hoyatmf02 on Apr 12, 2012 12:49:59 GMT -5
This righteous indignation and criticism of NN is embarassing. It's ironic beucase a day earlier, we were loving this kid and bashing the crazies at Kentucky and Cuse. We need to face facts: he picked Kentucky, and there are lots of legitimate reason for his to do so, not least of which, they jsut won a National Title with their centerpiece beign a kid whom I'm sure Nerlens views as a contemporary. Really we should be asking ourselves for a kid who is certain to elave college after a year, how could we ever compete with that? Kentucky has a bigger school, more press, a more committed fan base with better facilities and signficantly greater recent success.
Then there are those who said we didn't need him. Of course we needed him. We needed him at least as much as Kentucky or Cuse needed him - three other teams that lost their starting center. All of the other centers on our roster averaged 2.4 pts in 6.8 minutes combined. That's because two of them are coming off of major industry. Now people are saying, good riddance to NN because somehow we are now in a better position to land a kid in Upshaw who is not a highly regarded and has less demonstrated interest in joing our program. I don't get it. Some peopel ar eknocking his game, but if he was so overrrated, then why are folks so upset? Why is this thread so damn long. You guys ahve seen the video. He's a beast on defense and a willing apsser from the high and low post - in other words, exactly the kind of kid that we want in our program.
NN is 18 years is old and is going to college for one year. I can't blame him for deciding to go witha coach that jsut won a National Title with several other similarly situated young men. I've never seen any rumor directly tied to NN that he was coming to Gu only random third and fourth ahnd speculation. He said he made his decision Tuesday night with his family. For all of those people who constantly talk about how we are better than the Kentucky and Syracuse fans, now is the time to act like it.
Let's move on, try to get someone else in that can help us, and do what we did this year, exceed everyone's expectations.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 12, 2012 12:54:22 GMT -5
You must be an idiot. First off I was not suggesting that anyone in ESPN had anything to do with what he cut into his hair. I actually believe they didn't. But to say that there was absolutely no one on that set that could cut that in his hair is absolutely ridiculous. It takes a skilled barber and I'm sure they hired one to give every player there a trim who was going to appear on TV. So go ahead and hit yourself in the face again, I wouldn't mind. You're wrong. Not speculating, not guessing, I'm telling you for a fact you're wrong.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 12, 2012 13:02:52 GMT -5
You people honestly believe that there was some huge conspiracy to Punk Gtown? WOW. Were we all duped? Sure, but not by a concerted effort by the media and Noel's team and ESPN (no reason for non ESPN properties to conspire with them). The duper was someone close enough to Noel to make it seem reasonable that they would know and someone who wanted to feel important.
It should also be pointed out that the two guys who did know before the announcement, Telep and Daniels, never said he was GOING to Gtown. Daniels did talk to Noel earlier in the day and kept it quiet, he never said Gtown.
Also that show would have happened with or without Noel and Shabazz. Its national signing day. They do that every year. It wasnt made solely so those two could announce.
Also all 18 year olds are jerks. ALL of them. You were too. Thats what you are when you are 18. That doesnt mean you are a bad person if you are a jerk. You guys need to get more in touch with young people if you think his behavior was anything other than what all 18 year old would want to do. Saying "Im taking my talents" is cool to 15 to 18 year olds. Its like reciting a line from a movie. It doesnt sound good to you because you are 40 and have a kids and a job and a different life. Its not a big deal and has no reflection on his character.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Apr 12, 2012 13:09:02 GMT -5
You must be an idiot. First off I was not suggesting that anyone in ESPN had anything to do with what he cut into his hair. I actually believe they didn't. But to say that there was absolutely no one on that set that could cut that in his hair is absolutely ridiculous. It takes a skilled barber and I'm sure they hired one to give every player there a trim who was going to appear on TV. So go ahead and hit yourself in the face again, I wouldn't mind. You're wrong. Not speculating, not guessing, I'm telling you for a fact you're wrong. Seriously, if we're sitting here arguing about whether or not ESPN has a barber on set that could shave a UK logo into Nerlens' hair, we should all just pack up and go home. We've officially reached pathetic SU-depth.
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