Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 21, 2010 7:44:16 GMT -5
When will this President and his Democrat colleagues begin to put America first and stop encouraging and coddling those who despise us?
Obama's standing silently by while Pres. Calderon lectures on the Arizona immigration law was disgraceful. The standing ovation afforded Calderon by Congressional Democrat members was even worse.
If anyone needs to know why there are so many angry people in this country right now, they need look no further the performance by the Democrat elected officials while Calderon crapped all over America this week.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 21, 2010 8:25:19 GMT -5
Short answer: never. The President and Democrats in Congress acted shamefully this week. What's more, I don't even get it from a political point of view. Yes, it plays well to the hard left, but the majority of Americans approve of Arizona's steps, and a larger majority, while having some concerns, at least understand why the law was passed (I think I am in this category). To his credit, Obama acknowledged that factor, and did talk about constructive steps -- after allowing the US to get spanked publicly, that is -- but Congressional Democrats (and Obama administration officials in attendance) were just....well, there's just no excuse for that. As for Calderon himself, the word hypocrite comes to mind. Say, why don't we just adopt Mexican immigration policy? That oughta' make him happy, right?
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Filo
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Post by Filo on May 21, 2010 9:36:14 GMT -5
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SoCalHoya
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Post by SoCalHoya on May 21, 2010 10:52:28 GMT -5
Well, there's five minutes I'll never get back.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 21, 2010 12:08:34 GMT -5
If Obama's criticism of BP is un-American, what does that make the American way? Multinational corporations evading all responsibility?
#RandPaulIsAKook
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 21, 2010 14:01:19 GMT -5
If Obama's criticism of BP is un-American, what does that make the American way? Multinational corporations evading all responsibility? #RandPaulIsAKook Nice shift of topic. Obama stood by like a cigar store Indian while Calderon talked out of his backside about a law that he, like Obama, Holder and Napolitano, had never read.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 21, 2010 14:36:19 GMT -5
Well, there's five minutes I'll never get back. I thought that was a good, measured response. What bothered you about it?
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TC
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Post by TC on May 21, 2010 14:45:23 GMT -5
Obama stood by like a cigar store Indian while Calderon talked out of his backside about a law that he, like Obama, Holder and Napolitano, had never read. I think this is a great example of how the left and right follow completely different media because I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about with this Calderon thing, and no one has bothered to put a link in here. I'm not trapped in a cave either - I compulsively read cnn.com, talkingpointsmemo.com, follow a bunch of news sources on Twitter, read Boston.com every morning, and listened to our horrible Boston-area right wing sports morning show for an hour this morning.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 21, 2010 14:51:15 GMT -5
Obama stood by like a cigar store Indian while Calderon talked out of his backside about a law that he, like Obama, Holder and Napolitano, had never read. and listened to our horrible Boston-area right wing sports morning show for an hour this morning. There's your problem right there. NOMAH!!!
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 21, 2010 14:51:30 GMT -5
On the White House lawn, Calderon tore into the Arizona law and Obama stood by mute. On the floor of the House, Calderon tore into the assault weapons ban and the Democrat members of Congress gave him a standing ovation.
No foreign leader should ever be permitted to come into our country as our guest and assail our laws without being corrected, let alone applauded.
Throw in the fact that Mexican immigration policy and enforcement are barbaric and you've got a real winner here. Of course Calderon hates the immigration law passed in Arizona; it might cut the flow of his people that he can't feed, clothe or otherwise take care of into our country.
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Post by redskins12820 on May 21, 2010 15:29:31 GMT -5
On the White House lawn, Calderon tore into the Arizona law and Obama stood by mute. On the floor of the House, Calderon tore into the assault weapons ban and the Democrat members of Congress gave him a standing ovation. No foreign leader should ever be permitted to come into our country as our guest and assail our laws without being corrected, let alone applauded. Throw in the fact that Mexican immigration policy and enforcement are barbaric and you've got a real winner here. Of course Calderon hates the immigration law passed in Arizona; it might cut the flow of his people that he can't feed, clothe or otherwise take care of into our country. The Arizona law is not "our law"-it's the law of one state. Would you be so up in arms if Calderon had criticized a law by California allowing abortions? Edit: doesn't the Pope do this all the time (even when touring the U.S.) and doesn't he get applauded by conservatives? I think the answer is "yes."
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Post by AustinHoya03 on May 21, 2010 16:13:19 GMT -5
Does Felipe says such things because he means them? Or does he say them to prop up the Mexican economy's reliance on remittances? Or, even worse, does he say them por Sinaloa? www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126890838Is it necessary to criticize the words of the leader of a nation on its way to becoming a failed state? I'm cool with Obama letting Calderon spew venom in public as long as Obama strong-arms Calderon in private into fixing the war zone south of the Rio Bravo.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 21, 2010 16:14:57 GMT -5
The Arizona law is not "our law"-it's the law of one state. Would you be so up in arms if Calderon had criticized a law by California allowing abortions? Yes. Foreign leaders do not get to stand on the White House lawn or in the Well of the House and bad mouth our laws, even if it is the law of one state. The Pope has not come to the US and publicly made such criticisms to my recollection. When Calderon issued statements previously from Mexico, well I still think they were hypocritical, but I have no problem with that otherwise. Or even for a Democrat to come forward and say, in the media for example, that he "has made a good point" or something like that. There is a big difference between doing that and what happened this week. And conservatives do not always applaud the Pope.
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SoCalHoya
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Post by SoCalHoya on May 21, 2010 17:33:11 GMT -5
Well, there's five minutes I'll never get back. I thought that was a good, measured response. What bothered you about it? To an extent, I understand the sentiments of many who think it is inappropriate for a foreign leader to come here and criticize the laws of a certain state. It feels a little inappropriate. However, this law does have an impact on his country and countrymen, so I'm willing to give him some wiggle-room. But I do recall that other heads of state have done this sort of thing in the past, without much moaning and groaning. I know it's not absolutely analogous, but didn't Reagan give that great "tear down that wall" speech in West Germany not too far from the very wall he was talking about? I thought that was a great speech! Also, it's not like Calderon was in Phoenix giving the speech, he was in DC, giving his opinion on something that (evidently) many other local politicians agreed with. And, I also think Mexico's immigration laws suck, too. I'm no fan of Calderon, but these laws were not put into place by him (nor do I think he has the political capital to change them). Just because, for instance, Obama disagrees about the death penalty (despite its legality in many states) does not, in my opinion, preclude him from criticizing the policy when abroad in a country that does. What I really have problem with are the themes McClintock struck upon, including the following quotes he used. "Any man who says he is an American but something else also isn't an American at all...we have room for one flag, the American flag, we have room but for one language" thread. That sure sounds great, doesn't it? Very patriotic. Nostalgic even. But, it certainly isn't convenient on St. Patty's day, when teams of people in my office (and many of you no doubt), call themselves "Irish," drink green beer, wear green, have their kids do Irish dance performance, etc. etc. Now, I think there is nothing wrong with this sort of celebration. We are a nation of immigrants and I see nothing disloyal about identifying with the nation from where our ancestors came. That we can do this and still be "American" is one of the great things about *being* an American. I certainly don't think it denigrates "American culture" to be proud of one's heritage. To me, McClintock's words come off as either completely ignorant or xenophobic. Or, upon further review, perhaps both. Despite what he says, I have no problem with non-Americans debating American politics and policies, just as I (and others here) routinely debate the politics and policies of other countries, even when on the soil of the very country we are criticizing.
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Post by redskins12820 on May 21, 2010 17:43:59 GMT -5
The Arizona law is not "our law"-it's the law of one state. Would you be so up in arms if Calderon had criticized a law by California allowing abortions? Yes. Foreign leaders do not get to stand on the White House lawn or in the Well of the House and bad mouth our laws, even if it is the law of one state. Fair enough. While I disagree about whether a foreign leader should be able to criticize laws, as long as you are willing to criticize a foreign leader for criticizing ALL laws, at least you're not adopting a double standard. As for the Pope, interestingly google provided me with an article of his criticism of harsh U.S. immigration policies in his visit to the U.S. in 1995. So yes, Calderon is not the first foreign leader to step on U.S. soil and criticize U.S. laws. Let's not blow this out of proportion. I await your criticism of the Republican controlled Congress in 1995 for not sponsoring a bill condemning the pope www.npg.org/footnote/popes_visit.htm
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 21, 2010 17:53:09 GMT -5
I prefer my politics blown WAY THE F**K out of proportion, thank you very much.
Time for a beer summit.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 21, 2010 19:39:14 GMT -5
Yes. Foreign leaders do not get to stand on the White House lawn or in the Well of the House and bad mouth our laws, even if it is the law of one state. Fair enough. While I disagree about whether a foreign leader should be able to criticize laws, as long as you are willing to criticize a foreign leader for criticizing ALL laws, at least you're not adopting a double standard. As for the Pope, interestingly google provided me with an article of his criticism of harsh U.S. immigration policies in his visit to the U.S. in 1995. So yes, Calderon is not the first foreign leader to step on U.S. soil and criticize U.S. laws. Let's not blow this out of proportion. I await your criticism of the Republican controlled Congress in 1995 for not sponsoring a bill condemning the pope www.npg.org/footnote/popes_visit.htmNotwithstanding the relative difference in stature of the men involved, did the Pontiff make his comments on the White House Lawn or the well of the House? Part two, did he receive a standing ovation from Congress upon doing so?
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Post by redskins12820 on May 21, 2010 20:35:02 GMT -5
Fair enough. While I disagree about whether a foreign leader should be able to criticize laws, as long as you are willing to criticize a foreign leader for criticizing ALL laws, at least you're not adopting a double standard. As for the Pope, interestingly google provided me with an article of his criticism of harsh U.S. immigration policies in his visit to the U.S. in 1995. So yes, Calderon is not the first foreign leader to step on U.S. soil and criticize U.S. laws. Let's not blow this out of proportion. I await your criticism of the Republican controlled Congress in 1995 for not sponsoring a bill condemning the pope www.npg.org/footnote/popes_visit.htmNotwithstanding the relative difference in stature of the men involved, did the Pontiff make his comments on the White House Lawn or the well of the House? Part two, did he receive a standing ovation from Congress upon doing so? Part 1: yes. cnsblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/text-of-pope-at-white-house/ You can read between the lines of the criticism of U.S. interrogation policies since he had criticized them right before coming to the U.S. seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004342465_apbushpope.html Part 2: As far as I know, the Pope does not appear before Congress so that would be impossible. Should George Bush have cut off the pope or released a statement the next day condemning the Pope's statement. The speech was delivered at the White House for crying out loud
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 22, 2010 7:46:35 GMT -5
Nice of you to read between the lines of the Pope's speech. You still don't see a difference in the broadside that Calderon delivered?
Moreover, do you not accept the inherent differnce in the role of the Pontiff from that of the President of Mexico? Calderon comes to the US solely as a secular political leader. When the Pope travels to the US he comes as the leader of the Roman Catholic faith.
Finally, find me the direct attack where the Pope challenges the US on its own laws/policies.
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Post by redskins12820 on May 22, 2010 11:00:42 GMT -5
Nice of you to read between the lines of the Pope's speech. You still don't see a difference in the broadside that Calderon delivered? Moreover, do you not accept the inherent differnce in the role of the Pontiff from that of the President of Mexico? Calderon comes to the US solely as a secular political leader. When the Pope travels to the US he comes as the leader of the Roman Catholic faith. Finally, find me the direct attack where the Pope challenges the US on its own laws/policies. Um, one of those two articles IS a direct attack by the Pope on U.S. laws (the key is you actually have to click the link). And while the second is reading between the lines, the stuff between the lines is in fluorescent and flashing. You really think it's not blatantly obvious that the Pope is criticizing U.S. policy when he discusses the need for respect of the UN Declaration of Human Rights (a resolution the U.S. admitted it was not respecting) a week after directly criticizing U.S. interrogation policies and about 30 minutes after discussing interrogation policies with Bush? In the real world that I live in, that's a criticism of U.S. policies. Now I know that story doesn't fit well with your pre-written "democrats are bad, but republicans are immune" story, but those are the facts. And there is no difference between the Pope and Calderon in this respect because they are both foreign leaders on official visits at the white house. Just because the Pope represents a religion as well as a state, I don't understand why you think that would give him a free pass to criticize the U.S. laws on his state visit. Finally, I'm sure with about 3 minutes you could find numerous cases of foreign leaders criticizing policy at the white house (the pope is just one example)-that's my point. The only reason you are fixated on Calderon as opposed to the other times when no news media picked it up is that you have an axe to grind with Obama and you agree with the law; I think that's pretty apparent to everyone. If some leader came and criticized the bailout (assuming you were opposed to it) I don't think we would hear an ounce of complaint from you.
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