Stop Giving Notre Dame a Free Pass!

[gunny]

I one scenario that I do not hear anyone talking about is the Big East forcing Notre Dame to make a decision. I think the Big East needs to go to Notre Dame and say that in order to be in the Big East you have to join the conference for all sports (including football). If you do not wish to do that then you are not welcome as a Big East school. Notre Dame can be an independent in football, but the others sports can not be independent. I can not see how Notre Dame could play independent division 1 basketball. I just think that Notre Dame holds the key the to the future of the Big East. Losing Notre Dame and possible one other school is something that can be recovered from, but losing three or four schools is not possible. Looking forward to hearing feedback on why the Big East does not do this.

[skyhoya]

I think the BE coaches sent ND letters in the past asking them to do this. No response from ND. They don't want to reduce their football money or split it with us. They add little to the conference, so let them take a hike. Without a basketball conference, their program slips big time.

Their football programs usually play 3 BT games and 2 or 3 Pac10 games, pick a conference and join. I think they should join the B12 after Mizzou and Neb leave and go to the B10. How can a school like ND continue to Edited off the B10 and the BE and still survive as a national program?

[strummer8526]

May 12, 2010 9:30:28 GMT -5 skyhoya said:

How can a school like ND continue to Edited off the B10 and the BE and still survive as a national program?

One very simple explanation: Rudy.

[DFW HOYA]

May 12, 2010 9:15:16 GMT -5 gunny said:

I one scenario that I do not hear anyone talking about is the Big East forcing Notre Dame to make a decision. I think the Big East needs to go to Notre Dame and say that in order to be in the Big East you have to join the conference for all sports (including football). If you do not wish to do that then you are not welcome as a Big East school.

Be careful what you wish for. The Big East could make the same demand to Georgetown as well.

[happyhoya1979]

Notre Dame itself is on the ropes. Comcast took over NBC this year and the people who run Comcast do not have the ties to Notre Dame that the GE people like Immelt and Sherrin did.
NBC could make more money either relegating ND to Comcast cable or just plain buying out the Irish after 20 years of medicocrity and a schedule now bringing games with the Nevadas and Western Michigans of the world to National TV. In these circumstances Notre Dame is no longer in a position to dictate to the Big East. Its time ND's sweetheart deal of football independence and all other sports in the Big East ends. And after the lacrosse debacle, where ND influence clearlly helped to screw our men's team, it is really time to give ND the needed ultimatum.

And if the Big east makes the same demand to us, so be it. As a university, we are probably better off moving to our academic peers in the Ivy League and retreating from Big time sports.

[gunny]

The difference is that Georgetown is not holding the survival of the Big East in its hands. If Notre Dame joins the Big Ten along with one other Big East school and one or two Big 12 schools then the Big East will continue to survive. Whether Georgetown or any other non-division 1 football leaves the Big East is irrevelevant. I say get rid of Notre Dame. This would more than likely force them to join a conference. Quit treating Notre Dame like they are special, they are NOT!

Point of order: Division I-AA football is "Division I" whether people like that level or not.--Admin

[happyhoya1979]

Not in 2010.

[CAHoya07]

May 12, 2010 9:40:32 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

And if the Big east makes the same demand to us, so be it. As a university, we are probably better off moving to our academic peers in the Ivy League and retreating from Big time sports.

False, at least in my mind. Not going to happen. But we've had this discussion on the board millions of times.

[rosslynhoya]

May 12, 2010 10:03:24 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

May 12, 2010 9:40:32 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

And if the Big east makes the same demand to us, so be it. As a university, we are probably better off moving to our academic peers in the Ivy League and retreating from Big time sports.

False, at least in my mind. Not going to happen. But we've had this discussion on the board millions of times.

Without bigtime college basketball, GU isn't a second-rate Ivy, it's a top-rate A-10 school, a GW that's sortof Catholickish.

The best case scenario for us would be if the Conference were to commit to a Manhattan Project (Providence Project?) to bring GU and Nova football up to Div 1-A standards, and then try to land two more football members before anyone gets poached.

Granted, we'd have to play all of our conference games on the road until the neighbors let us build a stadium sometime around 2030, but that's a relatively small price to pay compared to the three or four worst-case scenarios that could play out in the next few years....

[Filo]

If ND can be dropped and the BE survives, then ND really does not hold the key to the BE's survival, does it?

And, yeah, as has been beaten to death around here, the whole joining the Ivy League / go with our academic peers argument is DOA.

Weak thread.

[3xhoya]

May 12, 2010 10:17:56 GMT -5 Filo said:

If ND can be dropped and the BE survives, then ND really does not hold the key to the BE's survival, does it?

And, yeah, as has been beaten to death around here, the whole joining the Ivy League / go with our academic peers argument is DOA.

Weak thread.

The reason ND holds the key is due to rumors that if ND agrees to move to the Big _ (choose a number) it is thought they Big Ten will only take one other Big East team. However, if ND denies it is thought the Big Ten will take 3-4 teams and the Big East will cease to exist.

[skyhoya]

ND has no power other than their national tv market. IF the B10 takes MO and Neb, then they only need 1 team from somewhere else to make 14 teams. That could be Rutgers, CUSE, Twerps, UCONN, etc.

[RBHoya]

Lot of the football school fans have been advocating this for a while. Don't think it'll ever happen, but it'd be interesting to see what ND would do... their options would basically boil down to join the Big 10 for everything including football, or drop their hoops + non-revenue programs down even lower, finding some other weaker conference that'd give them the deal the BE gives them now (A-10? C-USA? MVC?). Neither would be great situations for them, but not sure what they'd choose.

But anyway, just don't think this move has enough votes. For starters, how can a school like Georgetown, who has a very sweet "Play in the Big East for everything except football" deal turn around and demand Notre Dame not get that same deal? I don't see a lot of the Catholic school presidents getting behind such a move. Not to mention, when/if the day comes that the BE falls and we're trying to assemble the catholic hoops conference, I think we'd want ND as an ally then. Otherwise we've basically deprived ourselves of one of the very few schools in that league with name recognition, and that spot would just be filled by some generic A-10 team nobody cares about, like Dayton or St. Louis or something.

Plus, at this point I don't see RU, Pitt or Cuse supporting it. At this point a majority of the alumni at those schools have no interest at all in seeing the Big East hold together. They'd much rather get invited to the Big 10 themselves. So all of those schools right now are hoping that ND stays the hell away from the B10, thereby increasing their odds of getting in.

The only schools who this would clearly benefit are those who have no shot at getting into the B10 now and who could stand to see the BE stay together at least for now--WVU, Cincy, UConn, Ville, USF.

PLUS, at the end of the day, it still does not fix the underlying problem. Say ND goes to the B10, and they're at 12 and they decide to stay there temporarily. Then the PAC-10 takes 2 to keep mirroring the B10, get the championship game revenue etc, so now they're at 12. If the PAC-10 takes a B12 team, then the B12 picks up an MWC team and they're at 12. So the threat of super-conferences is gone, and the Big East as we know it (minus ND) is spared, right?

Well, no. At that point 5 of the 6 BCS conferences have 12 teams, and only the lowly BE has 8. How long will that situation last? I suspect it would not be long until the other BCS conferences institute a rule making it necessary to have at least 12 teams and a championship game in order to get a BCS autobid, and therefore the 8 BE football schools split off, pick up the 4 best free agents and we're right back where we didn't want to be anyway.

[calhoya]

Why not just give the Big Ten permission to have a championship game now? It is amazing the lengths to which they are going for football when the solution is simple--a post-season tournament that would generate a massive amount of funds for all involved.

[rosslynhoya]

May 12, 2010 11:20:20 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Well, no. At that point 5 of the 6 BCS conferences have 12 teams, and only the lowly BE has 8. How long will that situation last? I suspect it would not be long until the other BCS conferences institute a rule making it necessary to have at least 12 teams and a championship game in order to get a BCS autobid, and therefore the 8 BE football schools split off, pick up the 4 best free agents and we're right back where we didn't want to be anyway.

They won't need to institute a new rule because it's already in place and the Big East is already in danger of losing its auto-bid to the MWC come 2012. I'm quoting wikipedia, but this has been established elsewhere:

All 11 conferences compete fairly for an opportunity to earn AQ status. As agreed by all 11 conferences, the results of the 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 regular seasons were evaluated to determine which conferences earned automatic qualification. Three criteria were used: Rank of the highest-ranked team, rank of all conference teams, and number of teams in the top 25. The six conferences which met that standard are the current BCS conferences.

The 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons will be used to determine if another conference achieves automatic qualification for the BCS games that will conclude the 2012 and 2013 seasons.

Now I just wish I could find the article that noted that based on the 08 and 09 seasons, the Mountain West is presently ahead of the Big East for the sixth slot....

[vcjack]

May 12, 2010 11:27:10 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Why not just give the Big Ten permission to have a championship game now? It is amazing the lengths to which they are going for football when the solution is simple--a post-season tournament that would generate a massive amount of funds for all involved.

If it were that easy I'm sure Delaney would have twisted the NCAA's arms into changing the rules by now.

The real issue preventing the BT from having a championship game is that there isn't a clear way to divide the 11 current teams into divisions without creating huge imbalances. The conference would have the same issues that the Big Twelve has with the perception that it's too Texas and Oklahoma focused. What the Big Ten needs is more balance

[hoyaalf]

I continue to invite to all to think broadly and creatively on this general topic.

Either very little will happen, or very much will happen.

We must be prepared, iuf not pro-active.

[HometownHoya]

So ND is remaining independent unless the BE falls apart. If ND doesn't join the B10, they will poach a more important member of the BE (or Rutgers), causing the BE to fall apart. So ND would be forced to join a conference...but the B10 would be filled up, sooooo they're screwed.