Iverson Documentary Discussion

[SirSaxa]

A documentary on ESPN tonight examines the events surrounding the 1993 bowling alley brawl that led to Iverson getting a 15 year sentence for "Maiming by Mob" even though no one suffered any serious injuries.


AIR DATES:
Premieres Tuesday Apr 13 8PM ESPN
Tuesday Apr 13 11pm ESPN 2
Thursday Apr 15 9:30pm ESPN 2
Thursday Apr 15 10pm ESPN Classic
Friday Apr 16 2pm ESPN U
Sunday Apr 18 10pm ESPN U


ESPN Backstory on Doc

[PhillyHoya]

hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=22041

[DFW HOYA]

Some brief thoughts following the documentary's debut:

1. Steve James brought a unique perspective to the story as a native of Hampton. A documentary from someone who grew up outside the community might not have given it the depth it recieved in the documentary, as Hampton and the Tidewater in general have struggled through issues of both race and class for a long while. It was briefly mentioned that there were those in the black community that did not support Iverson over, in part, his stature in the community, or being poor.

2. James makes note of the various odd theories that sprouted up during the trial (Iverson was dating the judge's granddaughter, the prosecutors were all from the rival high school, even the claim that Hampton University wanted him to be forced to stay in the area and his attorney worked at HU). It was illustrative that even among the issues, there were varying layers of inta-community suspicion that germinated throughout this story, then and now.

3. Fleeting notice is given to Georgetown in the documentary, but it's likely that Allen's two years at GU were among the most stable of his life. (The story on Mike Jarvis's recruiting was amusing, however.)

4. Seventeen years later, and still so few (black or white) that wanted to go on the record about it. That may have been among the more interesting sidebars to the story, but Sue Lambiotte's story was a nice addition. (Some of you may remember her son when he played at NC State.)

5. There is a strong religious undercurrent to Iverson and the documentary. John Thompson once called him "the Prodigal Son" and the original prodigal son had to sink very low in order to summon the courage to return to his home. Sadly, the recent news stories on Iverson post-NBA seem to be suggesting, as one women in the documentary put it, "a sad story with an unwritten future."

If you can catch it on iTunes, Amazon, or whenever ESPN rebroadcasts these things, it's well worth it.

[daytonahoya31]

best 90 minutes i've spent in a while...people need to see this

[hoyaalf]

Very powerful stuff.

Tough to digest in one viewing.

[SirSaxa]

Very well done documentary by a film maker for whom this was clearly very personal. He conveys the depth of the impact of the Iverson trial on the community, and its implications for the State and Nation as well.

Allen is a complex and intelligent human being who endured unfathomable challenges as a kid growing up and looking after his siblings. He is extremely loyal and honest too. And true to his roots. He is facing yet another set of challenges now.

It is a testament to Big John that he took Allen on even though those were the days when JT did not want to deal with recruiting and with "knuckleheads". And Allen did motivate JT as well as vice versa.

Difficult to see the trial and sentencing as anything other than strongly and negatively influenced by race. But I like to think of Georgetown as a place where progress has been and continues to be made on racial divisions, though clearly there is much work still to be done. And yes, I think our history with the Thompson family is a source of pride for all Hoyas and huge plus for our program and the kids who choose to become a part of it.

If you have not yet seen this Doc., I suggest you give it a try.


AIR DATES:
Premieres Tuesday Apr 13 8PM ESPN
Tuesday Apr 13 11pm ESPN 2
Thursday Apr 15 9:30pm ESPN 2
Thursday Apr 15 10pm ESPN Classic
Friday Apr 16 2pm ESPN U
Sunday Apr 18 10pm ESPN U

[CAHoya07]

Not the best 30 for 30 I've seen, a bit slow-moving, but definitely worth a look. It's a very conflicted examination of a difficult subject. It seems to provide a lot more questions and uncertainty than answers. It has many layers and is definitely not neat and tidy, kind of like this incident and real life in general.

Part of me can't decide whether Allen was wrong or not, and the other part of me admits that while Allen did do wrong, how wrong was he? The documentary left me somewhat confused yet provoked, which is probably how the director wanted it.

And yes, 17 years later, apparently few wanted to go on the record about the incident for this documentary... including AI himself. All AI one on one speaking footage is from past interviews.

[kghoya]

Iverson hadn't tweeted in over a month until tonight.

About to watch the ESPN 30 for 30 for the first time along with the rest of the country. I had no creative involvement in the project...

I only know what I have seen in the previews. Stay tuned for my OFFICIAL project "The Deconstruction of Allen Iverson" coming this Fall.

[TC]

Best 30 for 30 yet, which is amazing considering James couldn't get almost anyone involved to go on record and most of the others have had heavy involvement from the subjects. Iverson is going to really regret not going on record on this one - I don't think anyone cares about his OFFICIAL project one bit, but he had the opportunity to go on record with something that took him seriously and ended up treating him fairly and he passed on it.

The thing that really impressed me about it is that James manages to not take any position on guilt or innocence and steers questions in four or five other directions and manages to get away with it. I don't think I've ever watched a documentary focused on a trial and not come away debating the position of guilt or innocence - James was so even handed that I don't think the biggest Iverson critics and fans could really have a problem with it.

Best interview subjects had to be James' Mom and the two guys standing in front of the house.

[lichoya68]

very powerful learned alot in this about ai and my home state of virginia.. agree the guys mom and the two guys in front of the house were very impressive.. everyone should see this not only for stuff about ai that was insiteful but also to learn a great story about the producers home town.. i didnt know that hampton was the first us port where african americans first disembarked to the united states as the hampton roads guide called it very very interesting.. congrats to big john for taking a chance with him a hoya great bball player with an up and down history.. the story i thougt was really really insiteful about all involved.. a must see for hoya fans and beyond.

[theexorcist]

I still think that the best 30 for 30 was the Colts' band. Anyway. Disclaimer - I missed the first thirty minutes.

The part that got me was the other people who consistently said "Why not me?" right after Wilder pardoned Iverson. James seemed throughout to be saying that Iverson's fame led him to be treated differently - the prosecution wanted to make an example of him, and everyone that pressed for his release did so because he was famous, regardless of his guilt or innocence.

[putinnat]

Heard an interesting interview with Steve James on 980 yesterday afternoon . What I found most interesting is that he has never met nor talked to Allen...ever.
He also talked about how he wanted to document the trial as it happened but that he was consumed wrapping up Hoop Dreams. Looking forward to watching this on Tivo tonight!

[Boz]

Yeah, I'm probably in the camp that this was "good, not great."

There were definitely some things I found out for the first time, but it was a lot of re-hashing of stuff that was well known as well. (At least well known to those in this part of the country. Maybe not well known to the nation.)

And I can't call it a "great" documentary with no actual interviews of AI himself, nor his mom (her appearances were taped from previous interviews as well, right?)

And come on. Not even a LITTLE bit about how Ann Iverson reached out to Pops about taking her son under his wing??

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it was a bad film. It was good. But it missed some elements that would have made it great.

And I realize I might be missing the point. In many ways, the doc was more about Hampton than it was about Bubbachuck.....but I'm biased.

[lichoya68]

thats what i LIKED about it as it was more than ai it was about my wonderful state of va.. and hampton and a good teaching thing on race relations. thats what i tookmost interesting about ai as a person not muchnew but the other stuff to me very powerful very just one mans opinion

[Hilltopper]

I really enjoyed it.

My only wish is that their had been some mention of the effect this had on Allen- how he grew not to trust anyone outside of his inner circle, and how he held those people so close to him. I think these things have had such a huge impact on his life and career. Being on campus with him, I saw how great a person he could be to those "on the inside", and how cold he could be to others. And his loyalty to those he trusted created so many problems for him, as they got in trouble during his early pro years.

And why did Georgetown call me twice last night to hit me up for money- didn't they know I was busy?

[TC]

Apr 14, 2010 8:42:58 GMT -5 Boz said:

And come on. Not even a LITTLE bit about how Ann Iverson reached out to Pops about taking her son under his wing??

Did you really want Pops sandwiched into the part where Lefty Driesell and Mike Jarvis are looking completely sleazy and they are talking about the Hampton University conspiracy theories? Do you really think that James would have bought the Georgetown PR position that "he recruited us, we didn't recruit him" which no one in their right mind believes to be the complete truth?

Georgetown came away unscathed, which was good enough for me considering the documentary was on the trial, not the career of Allen Iverson.

[damnhoya]

Best line of the documentary (I won't get this verbatim but those two gentlemen outside the house were probably my favorite part of the documentary):

"Allen was like one of those small nails you find in the hardware store; skinny but impossible to bend or break".

Also liked the duck analogy at the end. Definitely a highly racially-charged trial (thought James did a decent job trying to parse out the many layers to this story given that hardly anyone would talk to him).

[SSHoya]

Thought the doc had a feel like a Shakesperean tragedy in the sense that AI may be inevitably doomed through his own failures or errors or through the nature of fate, destiny, or the human condition to suffer/fail. I think Hobson, the high school teacher, alluded to AI as a story with the unwritten finish. I surely hope it isn't a tragedy.

I think James did a good job in showing you AI, the human being, not as a stereotype/caricature.

[Boz]

Apr 14, 2010 9:26:05 GMT -5 TC said:

Apr 14, 2010 8:42:58 GMT -5 Boz said:

And come on. Not even a LITTLE bit about how Ann Iverson reached out to Pops about taking her son under his wing??

Did you really want Pops sandwiched into the part where Lefty Driesell and Mike Jarvis are looking completely sleazy and they are talking about the Hampton University conspiracy theories? Do you really think that James would have bought the Georgetown PR position that "he recruited us, we didn't recruit him" which no one in their right mind believes to be the complete truth?

Georgetown came away unscathed, which was good enough for me considering the documentary was on the trial, not the career of Allen Iverson.

It may not be the complete truth, but I don't think there's anyone who disputes the fact that AI's mom went to visit Pops and talk to him about her son.

And I don't see how JT comes off bad in that, unless you have a really vindictive filmmaker, which James was not.

Moreover, I think it is intrinsically related to the situation he was in at the time, not to the overall career of Allen Iverson. I was really disappointed that it was not included.

[jgalt]

I really liked it. It was great for me because I was too young to understand this when it was happening. So a few thoughts:

My opinion on the whole trial is that the law "maiming by mob" is just stupid. If the qualification for being charged is just that you had to be there/be involved then there should have been alot more people charged, I would be very surprised if none of those other 30 people could be identified. Additionally, I dont think his arrest was totally racially motivated, but was mostly motivated by his fame and the idea that they shouldnt allow an athlete to slide. But the sentencing was clearly racially motivated; there is just no way to explain it. 5 years! for an incident where no one was severely hurt and where you were one of many that took part and you were not the primary aggressor seems just crazy.

I thought that this could have easily become a movie about the person of Allen Iverson, but was just, as LIC, says a vignette about Hampton and Virginia as a whole. But if it was more about AI as a person I would have liked to see more about Georgetown included. It seemed to me that much of AI's early life was defined by a lack of strong role models. He had them, especially in his Basketball coach, but that wasnt enough to make him the man everyone wants him to be. The second strong role model seemed to be his tutor who clearly had a great impact on him. And the final role model has been John Thompson who seems to me (an outsider) to be the one man who has been able to "tame" AI as much as he can be "tamed."

That brings me to my personal views of AI. I have a mixed opinion of him. He is clearly one of the greatest athletes to play basketball. But he has also never realized his potential (which is scary because he could have been that much better). I love him for his talent and have never felt the same animosity toward him for his "selfish" play (for obvious reasons). I think (and of course there is a huge caveat here because i have never met him [actually i did for a second when i was like 9] or his family or any one who is a personal friend of his) but i think that he has trouble deal with and expressing his feelings. This is clearly an effect of his up bringing. You could see last night in the movie when he was at the Scholarship ceremony. I think those tears were real, but i think that AI would benefit from allowing his emotions out more so that he doesnt internalize them and trun them into anger.

Anyway, dont bash me saying "youve never met him, you dont konw him" etc, because i already said that and am only basing my opinion on what i have seen of him on TV, so yeah it is a very inaccurate way to make those comments, so sue me.