GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 19, 2010 11:37:24 GMT -5
Also for D&D fans:
Experience
Georgetown: 1.32 years
Ohio: 1.35 years
So by my calculation, we're about 1 game younger than Ohio and more battle-tested by a factor of a million.
And at the end of the game, their FRESHMAN starting guard had this to say:
"I was kind of surprised they didn't play with more emotion," Cooper said. "I thought we were going to take their best shot."
Same here DJ, same here.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 19, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
"Playing with emotion" and "playing with heart" both sound good, but essentially, it is meaningless drivel. If you don't play defense or make shots, it looks like you are flat. Did Ohio "want it" more than Georgetown, or did they just execute better and hit open looks?
Wanting it more doesn't translate into W and Ls. Sorry.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 19, 2010 11:57:09 GMT -5
"Playing with emotion" and "playing with heart" both sound good, but essentially, it is meaningless drivel. If you don't play defense or make shots, it looks like you are flat. Did Ohio "want it" more than Georgetown, or did they just execute better and hit open looks? Wanting it more doesn't translate into W and Ls. Sorry. "Wanting it more" is committing yourself to doing things you don't like doing because you want to win. For this team that's defense. This was ND II the sequel. We shot just fine. We just didn't guard anyone at all. The Hoyas gave up 20 fewer points to the 76th best offense in the nation than they did to the 12th and 22nd best offenses in 80 minutes combined just 6 days ago. They can play defense. They just didn't. And that's been a recurring theme this season. But don't take the board's word, ask Greg: "We were flat, didn't guard, had a lack of intensity and focus," said Georgetown's talented sophomore big man Greg Monroe. "It's devastating. Heartbreaking."
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 19, 2010 12:09:57 GMT -5
When Alonzo Mourning and Mutombo were outplayed by Derrick Strong and Tyrone Hill in the 1990 NCAA tourney it must have been because a guy like Alonzo didn't "want it" enough.
The team definitely wasn't committed to the defensive system. Defense broke down completely, but not as a result of intangibles, rather because of execution.
Your analysis makes it seem that if Joe Tuomo had been out there hacking away at the Ohio guards, all would have been fine in the world.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Mar 19, 2010 12:15:59 GMT -5
1) Self-motivated players are often times PUSHED for minutes by very talented teammates. This 7 man rotation knew they were going to play all the minutes and it sometimes led to lack of focus.
2) This 2009-2010 Georgetown Hoyas team could have had Summers, Macklin & Chris Braswell on it. Greg & Julian were far too passive in regards to interior defense. If Braswell & Macklin were on this team there is no doubt they win the BE Tournament and get a #1 seed. That was scheduled to happen so JT III is on the right track.
3) I was very impressed with this team when THEY RAN. Adding Starks, Nate, Bowen and hopefully Moses could allow this team to ADD A PRESS to the defensive arsenal. I really think JT III will find a way to run, press & then run the offense when play dictates it.
4) Great group of players. That counts. It hurts to lose because these guys are real easy to root for.
5) They may be too nice. The guy that kept slamming into Wright on his free throws should have been sent a message. Either verbal, ala Jessie Sapp, or something physical in nature (Michael Graham, Fred Brown).
6) "Hell doth quicken the spirit". Hopefully this pain creates a burning NEED in JT III to DESTROY. When you think you've signed enough talented players go get another one.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 19, 2010 12:22:46 GMT -5
So you're saying we can't execute our defensive gameplan against an average, undersized MAC team? If I'm "dumping on III" then you're destroying him. Basically you're saying the team is lost on defense after 34 games. I don't believe that. I think our focus and intensity aren't the best. So does our All-American center. But I guess Greg is just a sycophant for a coach we had when he was in 7th grade who wants to "dump" on the current coach he committed to and respects
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 19, 2010 12:44:50 GMT -5
"Playing with emotion" and "playing with heart" both sound good, but essentially, it is meaningless drivel. If you don't play defense or make shots, it looks like you are flat. Did Ohio "want it" more than Georgetown, or did they just execute better and hit open looks? Wanting it more doesn't translate into W and Ls. Sorry. What is meant is not "emotion" it's URGENCY. Georgetown plays like they have 60 minutes to figure it out--in a 40 minute game. That shouldn't be the case in any game--but a ONE AND DONE scenario??? If you can't play like your season depends on it in an elimnation game, why not save the money/trip/selection and let someone else who gives a rip take your spot.
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cnyhoya
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Post by cnyhoya on Mar 19, 2010 14:04:12 GMT -5
"Playing with emotion" and "playing with heart" both sound good, but essentially, it is meaningless drivel. If you don't play defense or make shots, it looks like you are flat. Did Ohio "want it" more than Georgetown, or did they just execute better and hit open looks? Wanting it more doesn't translate into W and Ls. Sorry. It does actually, as has been already stated. Emotion, state of mind, and execution are strongly linked. That's a big part of coaching and team preparation.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Mar 19, 2010 14:19:42 GMT -5
"Emotion" is just sloppy vocabulary for playing hard and well. Emotion in a more literal sense hurts just as often as it helps, because it takes focus away from execution. Jon, Jeff and Roy were no more "emotional" than this team. But they executed much more consistently and had better results.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Mar 19, 2010 14:33:33 GMT -5
RDF is spot on. The problem is more with urgency. Emotion can be both helpful and hurtful, but playing with urgency from tip off to end whistle makes a huge difference in W's and L's. The Jeff/Jon/Roy/PEII teams learned to play with urgency throughout the course of the final four season. Thinking back to that first loss against ODU at McDonough, the main ingredient lacking there was urgency. Based off of this, maybe playing with urgency is something that can be learned.
This team went from first round NIT exit to BE Tourney finals and a 3 seed with arguably less than they had last year. This was a huge improvement. Maybe this loss will be the final ass kicking they need to help them realize the game is 40 minutes long and they need to leave everything they have on the court if they want to win. Hopefully Wright takes the reins starting now and demands more from his teammates.
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cnyhoya
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Post by cnyhoya on Mar 19, 2010 14:58:14 GMT -5
"Emotion" is just sloppy vocabulary for playing hard and well. Emotion in a more literal sense hurts just as often as it helps, because it takes focus away from execution. Jon, Jeff and Roy were no more "emotional" than this team. But they executed much more consistently and had better results. My point is that emotion matters. But I think a better term for what I am getting at is "mental toughness". It has nothing to do with being demonstative or "showing your emotion". Who cares about that? It's about being prepared mentally and refusing to lose. That kind of attitude rubs off on teammates and scares opponents - think Michael Jordan in the NBA.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 19, 2010 15:19:39 GMT -5
We will certainly play with a new sense of urgency next season for two reasons:
1) We will finally have some seniors who do not want to end their careers like this season.
2) There will be real competition for playing time. If you do not play hard, you sit, especially in the backcourt.
I feel like we can expect the same level of improvement next season we saw from '09 to '10. JT3 has demonstrated he is flexible and will change based on his personnel. I am looking forward to seeing some more pressing and trapping type defensive sets as well as a more aggressive style without worry of foul problems, especially from the backcourt.
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cnyhoya
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Post by cnyhoya on Mar 19, 2010 15:27:26 GMT -5
Well said NC. Having seniors helps the whole team. Depth means competition, as well as more rest and more fouls to give. And III has really impressed me with the evolution of the offense this year. I hope it will be defense next year.
I think JV's dwindling minutes hurt us, and we had no one to step in at a high level.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 19, 2010 15:29:31 GMT -5
The biggest misconception of the '07 team is they played a complete season. They were underachieving and going nowhere up to the home loss to Villanova. They played like robots, and didn't have any sense or urgency. Difference is they figured it out and started showing some fire--led by Summers/PE JR getting Jeff to quit acting like a robot and starting to realize he's one of the best players in country. Guys accepted roles and team got on a roll.
Urgency is John Thompson III's biggest weakness as a coach/weakness in Georgetown program. They come out flat a lot--they don't take the game to opponents, they wait for things to happen to "get them going"-well like we saw last night that is often too late. Even down to the '07 Final Four loss--you had your best player waiting/analyzing how to play instead of just taking over the game and attacking. You can't sit back and wait for anything-you have to take it to your opponent and leave everything you have on court and often I watch this program and question whether they've gotten everything out of their ability--as a team and some as individuals and that is a severe knock on this program and the leader of it.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 19, 2010 18:03:45 GMT -5
Also for D&D fans: Experience Georgetown: 1.32 years Ohio: 1.35 years So by my calculation, we're about 1 game younger than Ohio and more battle-tested by a factor of a million. And at the end of the game, their FRESHMAN starting guard had this to say: "I was kind of surprised they didn't play with more emotion," Cooper said. "I thought we were going to take their best shot." Same here DJ, same here. What don't you understand that the experience quote wasn't in reference to this game? It was in reference to the season as a whole and why they were so inconsistent, and Thompson was mainly refering to the regular season when talking about growing pains. I am not sure whats so difficult to understand that the youth comment was NOT directed at this game.
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cnyhoya
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Post by cnyhoya on Mar 19, 2010 19:30:28 GMT -5
Maybe so. But I just don't see us as a very young team. No senior leadership - OK I buy that. But many many teams do just fine with sophomores & juniors. We're not that young anymore.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Mar 19, 2010 20:39:11 GMT -5
The biggest misconception of the '07 team is they played a complete season...Urgency is John Thompson III's biggest weakness as a coach/weakness in Georgetown program. They come out flat a lot--they don't take the game to opponents, they wait for things to happen to get them going Though I'm not sure I agree with your overall point that it is III's fault, this is a good point. The '07 team also had the "coming out flat" problem. In fact, IIRC, towards the end of the season in '07 we started using a full court press in the beginning of games specifically to "jump-start" our energy level.
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Post by afalcon10 on Mar 19, 2010 20:46:40 GMT -5
The biggest misconception of the '07 team is they played a complete season...Urgency is John Thompson III's biggest weakness as a coach/weakness in Georgetown program. They come out flat a lot--they don't take the game to opponents, they wait for things to happen to get them going Though I'm not sure I agree with your overall point that it is III's fault, this is a good point. The '07 team also had the "coming out flat" problem. In fact, IIRC, towards the end of the season in '07 we started using a full court press in the beginning of games specifically to "jump-start" our energy level. Agreed. Its something about our program or coach, not the players. This has been a problem for a while.
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Post by pfchoya on Mar 19, 2010 21:27:34 GMT -5
I don't understand the sycophants on this board (all ex-Hoya Bluers I'm sure) who refuse to tolerate any criticism of JT III. JT seems like a good guy, but the idea that he is a great coach is absurd. You become great when you win a championship. Not to mention the best adjective to describe the last three years of Hoya Basketball is underachieving (and grossly at that).
If there is a silver lining in any of this, hopefully we (a) get rid of those III t-shirts with the ridiculous slogans on the back (Now they know, Here we come, are you deleted kidding me) and (b) end that stupid "We are Georgetown" chant that I had never heard of until III came to GU and that about 100 other schools already have.
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Post by afalcon10 on Mar 19, 2010 21:45:43 GMT -5
^ Troll. Someone ban this dude. "that stupid we are georgetown thread"? And whats Hoya Blue to do with this? They are a great organization. I am the first to call for a coaching change at GU but dont insult the program. You also have 1 total post. You sir are a troll.
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