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Post by roysgirlfriend on Mar 2, 2010 10:23:16 GMT -5
I wish I could have bet $1M that there was going to be a thread like this today. I hate these. Perhaps part of being a fan is also being critical of your team when they suck. So I don't really have a problem with people talking critically about the team. This board has such a weird rose-colored glasses fetish where no one is ever allowed to say anything bad about the team. Strange.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Mar 2, 2010 10:30:47 GMT -5
1. We obviously all have short fuses after watching the total meltdown last year. I think most Hoyas fans, even at the high points of this year, were secretly dreading that this team would meltdown again, albeit in less spectacular fashion. Now, to an extent, we are seeing it happening. 2. It's one thing to get frustrated about losing to a better team -- I think most of us would get upset, but ultimately not go too overboard. It's quite another thing to lose to a vastly inferior team, which our Hoyas have now done several times. These types of losses are usually rife with MENTAL errors, which, when they happen repeatedly, are all the more frustrating. We don't expect any player to be perfect, but aren't we allowed to get a little indignant when the same silly errors cost us game after game? Teams are supposed to improve over the course of the season, not backslide or regress tremendously. 3. I don't think the players are "lazy" or "inept" -- and would never dream of calling them such. Sometimes they do appear to play rather lackadaisically, which, as a fan, is brutal to watch. 4. I think many of us are panicked about recruiting. Of course we are. We are incredibly thin right now, and face the almost certain loss of our best player this year, and three more key pieces in 2011. If we don't replace them (and then some), we're completely screwed. I have faith that JTIII will replace them -- I think he has proved to be a fairly effective recruiter-- but in the meantime, I'll be biting my nails. 5. One of the biggest keys to recruiting, in addition to coach/program/system/whatever is WINNING GAMES. We're still riding the recruits we got after making the Final Four, after years of weaker recruiting. And though these games mean more to the players than they do to me, I have additional worries about the state of the program years and years down the line. Losing and not getting good recruits is a vicious cycle. Georgetown is already vulnerable by not being a huge state school. There are many things we cannot offer recruits, so we damn well better be able to assure them that they'll have a chance to win. 6. Who are we supposed to vent to? I have a lot of friends who are Hoyas fans, but I like Hoyatalk because it's full of people who care as much (and very often more) than I do about Hoyas Basketball, so I'll find receptive ears if I have a grudge or complaint. We obviously all want the team to win, and this happens to be a corner of the internet where we can voice whatever we're feeling between games. I don't think most of us think it will actually improve the play of the team, but I don't mind if people feel the need to vent. It's not like we'll be venting at the Verizon Center. Agreed on nearly everything except recruiting. I think we're in OK shape on that front. Starks, Lubick and Goodman seem like top tier players, and I like what I've seen from Thompson and Sanford (and even Benimon, in flashes) in limited roles this year. And we're in the mix for a lot of top players including that kid Christmas, so the staff is doing the job on that front anyway. We need to stop being obsessed with the rankings of these guys. I hate to say it, but look at Syracuse this season - that team doesn't have one Top 50 recruit on its entire roster. We have a few on our team (who shall remain nameless) who were "good gets" according to the recruiting rankings but who have not contributed on the court in any significant way. There are focus/effort issues with this group - dating back to last season - that JT3 never had with his previous teams here. I think we have to take a look at the core players over these past 2 seasons and lay some of the blame there, and another good portion on a coaching staff that hasn't been able to figure out how to properly motivate a pretty talented squad on a consistent basis. The disheartening thing about this theory is that the same core returns next season, so we can only hope that this group figures something out together. But in the long term, I still think the program is in pretty good shape. And I have a feeling that, if we clinch our tourney bid with a win over Cincy on Saturday, this team can still make some noise in the NCAAs once we get to face some non Big East opponents. The teams in our conference know exactly how to play against III's teams by now. OOC teams won't have that advantage, and our team does have the talent for a little run later this month. Keep The Faith
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hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Mar 2, 2010 10:35:49 GMT -5
They have since made up a lot of the margin, but due to scoreboard malfunctions, no one on Earth really knows who's winning right now. Boz, please keep me in the loop on developments here. ---------- As for me, I love the drama! We are crazy people who "live and die" because of the games of young basketball existentialists in search of Godot and the perfect pass. "All My Hoyas!" Too much. However, I wouldn't mind seeing a 'student/alum/parent/friend [donor] only' board made available. BTW, I'm from the Bronx, grew up playing ball there years ago in some fancy company [eg. Donny Walsh, Knicks GM]. I know a little bit. I raise this because I suspect that I'm the only poster around here with a Bronx b'ball background, unless of course Judge Tom Carroll of the NY State Supreme Court is posting too. I strongly doubt it. Do I make my point?
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damnhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 650
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Post by damnhoya on Mar 2, 2010 10:36:22 GMT -5
I watched our game last night into the wee hours of the morning. Watching it, the best feeling I had was sadness. No, I wasn't frustrated at the kids as I was frustrated watching the ND game (they played with effort the whole game last night). You just got the sense that they were going to lose last night from tip-off (which I wouldn't have said earlier in the season and obviously I'm not neglecting the fact that one of our 2 best players wasn't there last night).
I agree some people are over the top after we lose a game. On the other hand, I agree with many people who have already posted that the people on this board are some of the most diehard Hoya fans. Who else are you going to vent to or express your happiness/satisfaction after a big win? Most people on this board "get it"--get what it means to be a Hoya fan.
I don't think recruiting is a cause of concern for this program. III is a great recruiter even though some people might think otherwise (I think people are forgetting we are bringing Nate and Markel in next year). I think our 2011 class will be good as well (patience everyone).
I am more concerned that this team is 1-4 in our last 5 games and 3-5 in our last 8 games. I know many people said this was a 10-8 Big East team but I always thought with our talent that we were no worse than a 12-6 team this year (which is what I posted earlier in the season). Given some of our losses, we should be a 12-6 team or better. It's just frustrating to watch.
But come Saturday, regardless of what our record is right now, and regardless of whether we win or lose, I'm still going to be the same Hoya fan sitting in front of my TV cheering on the team. I suspect the same for most other people on this board...
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,785
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 2, 2010 10:49:17 GMT -5
1. We obviously all have short fuses after watching the total meltdown last year. I think most Hoyas fans, even at the high points of this year, were secretly dreading that this team would meltdown again, albeit in less spectacular fashion. Now, to an extent, we are seeing it happening. No doubt. Uh huh. I don't think the players are anywhere close to lazy, and the fact that they are the furthest from inept is what makes me annoyed. But I think they make lazy plays. I'm not overly worried about recruiting. Mostly because we're still getting good players, and good enough that you really can't tell how good they were going to be. We've never really gotten a Wall-type -- Greg is the closest. Everyone else has needed development. And our best players have been a mix of not recruited and recruited. If anything worries me about it, it's positional. We need to have more than two or three bigs on the roster. Losing sucks, but we're getting recruits. I get very frustrated with folks that write off Markel and Nate, for example, because: 1. They committed a while ago (isn't that a good thing) 2. They are "only" ranked about 30 and 60. We likely have a commitment from Jordan Goodman right now. I have no idea what he'll be ranked or if he'll be a great player or merely a good one. But the dude is 6'8" right now (and some places list him 6'9"), skilled, and athletic.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,395
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 2, 2010 11:13:46 GMT -5
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 2, 2010 11:18:26 GMT -5
Might want to purchase a billboard like the ND Alums did for football. Another apprenticeship?
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DonkDonk
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 428
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Post by DonkDonk on Mar 2, 2010 21:06:54 GMT -5
I wish I could have bet $1M that there was going to be a thread like this today. I hate these. Perhaps part of being a fan is also being critical of your team when they suck. So I don't really have a problem with people talking critically about the team. This board has such a weird rose-colored glasses fetish where no one is ever allowed to say anything bad about the team. Strange. Best post. I am so tired of the melodramatic threads crying about who's a real Georgetown fan, who isn't, etc. telling others how to support a team. Just relax. This is a message board. On the internet. Things happen. I feel the sleepy's of the world are doing their best to prove to some 'community' on this board that...they...are the true fans who are just so dang prudent that they are the ones to be admired. I seriously think people who start these threads do want the slow, building applause for their efforts. Otherwise, they would just let the board be.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Mar 2, 2010 22:48:01 GMT -5
The fact that we have players posting this as as facebook status says all you need to know about the fans:"look no disrespect but hoya alumni please leave me alone, if you dont have anything positive to say then dont say anything. I respect you guys so you guys show our team some respect. Thank You. Now i will get back to studying for my midterms LOL"
Thats the reason why I posted this thread. Because what you people say DOES affect the players and the program, not for myself. Oh yes, its great to have one of our best players being harrassed by fans. Really truly a great thing. Great great fans.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,528
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Post by IDenj on Mar 3, 2010 0:29:32 GMT -5
well said sleepy. people can voice THEIR opinions but do it in a respectful manner. remember we are fans of basketball; this should not be life and death. sad that cw had to be a voice of reason here but good on him.
Deleted - regardless of what you think of other boards, don't post it here and sink to that level.
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Post by westendhoya on Mar 3, 2010 1:20:08 GMT -5
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hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Mar 3, 2010 9:53:18 GMT -5
Wow!
That was ugly.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Mar 3, 2010 9:53:33 GMT -5
Yes, this is an Internet message board, and you can say whatever you want, and things happen and blah, blah, blah, blah, blabbity-freakin'-blah.
Well, free speech advocates, doesn't that ALSO mean that people who want to say that they are Editeded off at the fans are just as free to create threads like this as some of you are to create threads that bash players, coaches or the program? You can say you predicted a thread like this after a loss. Guess what? A lot of us also have gotten pretty good at predicting threads after losses that (a) annihilate Chris Wright or [insert player name] for no good reason; (b) indicate that our coach can't recruit or run an offense; or (c) whatever it is that bronx is spouting,
What you have failed to realize -- because you, of course, lack my superhuman insight -- is that by complaining about threads like this, you are doing the exact same thing as the poster you are complaining about.
I'm pretty sure this was the subject of a Twilight Zone episode starring Burgess Meredith and William Shatner.
If you don't like posters calling out the fans, then you can do what you say such posters should be doing when you are being critical (or perhaps "hysterical" yourselves): don't read it.
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Mar 3, 2010 9:58:47 GMT -5
The fact that we have players posting this as as facebook status says all you need to know about the fans:"look no disrespect but hoya alumni please leave me alone, if you dont have anything positive to say then dont say anything. I respect you guys so you guys show our team some respect. Thank You. Now i will get back to studying for my midterms LOL" Thats the reason why I posted this thread. Because what you people say DOES affect the players and the program, not for myself. Oh yes, its great to have one of our best players being harrassed by fans. Really truly a great thing. Great great fans. That is awesome. I am continuously impressed by anything Chris Wright says, whether he is quoted in a Washington Post article or on his Facebook status. Well done. Let's just support the god damn team no matter what. They are great players and seem like a group of great guys.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
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Post by seaweed on Mar 3, 2010 11:49:50 GMT -5
I am w Sleepy and apparently CW on this. Chris sure as heck balls his ass off for this team and anyone who says otherwise can come up here and kiss my lily white ass. Hell, we had a leader in the hospital, everyone feeling cruddy and people are talking about effort???
One thing though -I will never be embarrassed to BE a Hoya fan though I am frequently embarrassed BY other Hoya "fans" around here, not that it matters (HEAR THAT TEAM: HOYATALK DOESN'T MATTER). Still beats the heck out of every other school. I am so damned proud of our team, just like I almost always am this time of year, and I can't wait to get down to MSG next week and get my HOYA on. STRONG CONFIDENT GOOD.
For the record, I have not ever met him personally but from watching him play and limited interviews, I think Greg Monroe may be the smartest kid who ever played for us, maybe one of the smartest ones ever to go to the school. I am pretty sure he is a genius, in every sense of the world and with all the good and bad implications of that. My full on Hoya colored glasses want this: Finish strong this year, announce he is staying to play with Alonzo again this summer, the guys plus Nate and Markel next year, win the title and graduate in three years with Chris and Freak so he can go #1 with a GU degree. Those guys get drafted too and everybody else stays. I am not greedy - what else does he have to do right now, tag coeds?
I was gone this weekend and could not watch the games (I know, it is all my fault, but I just had to ski UT) but I pretty much knew what would be going on here. I have not bothered to read either game thread but have finally watched the ND game and have WVU on right now. The only good thing about missing these games was not being a part of the predictable meltdown here. Well, that and the skiing - that was a good thing too.
The ND loss can be chalked up to two things, repeated often - Freeman was not as effective on D, particularly boxing out and chasing shooters. That and ND was able to take advantage of mismatches by dragging our big guys out on the perimeter and shooting over them when they hedged for the drive. These are both primarily tied to one simple thing - sickness and anyone who gets down on guys playing under the weather is NO HOYA. We have a big team, excepting maybe when we line up against 'Cuse, and teams like ND that are playing small lineups can have effect if they make Jules and the Big Easy chase them out beyond the line and then get all unconscious from out there (Scott? Who the phuck is Scott?). We do not have to do that when we have all our regular guys playing because Freak is usually more effective staying with his mark and is strong against taller wings as well as having the body to fist inside.
Seems like the whole team was sick before WVU (coach called off shoot around due to it) and yet the guys battled back in a brutal environment - Sr Night at HuggieBear's Morgantown Zoo. Clark was clearly effected by something, but unlike those who say he lacks effort I am going to go with the probability that he wasn't 100% like a lot of guys. Underthe circumstances I will take a motivational loss that gives some of the younger guys a chance to get minutes in a BEast environment - they are 12-20 minutes older going forward. Hollis got hosed by the refs, hosed in the second half - two or three straight calls - damn! WVU played Edited out and we still had a chance.
oh, and, going all the way back to the first few posts here, H2OYA 05, I agree with you alot [sic] - that stuff drives me crazy.
2nd oh - for the skiers out there, splurge and go surefoot, absolutely Editeding awesome.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 3, 2010 12:33:59 GMT -5
Lucky that you got to go skiing this weekend Seaweed.
For anyone that wants to get away this weekend their is great snow EVERYWHERE in the US. The North East (Maine, VT, and NH) got 5+ feet in the past 5 days, the North West is always getting fresh snow, and Colorado and Utah is incredible skiing even if they haven't gotten freshies for a while.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 3, 2010 12:37:45 GMT -5
I felt alright after watching that game. They said we had 5 to 6 guys sick in the pre-game broadcast. Chris looks good to me. I think we just need a W against Cincy and a couple in the BET and we are ready to role.
The flip side to the past games is we now have a little more real game experience for our bench so we can go 9 deep in the tourney without a concern. Go HOYAS!
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Mar 3, 2010 13:04:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this will help or maybe console some of you, but several Gators down here are similarly critical of other Gators who have complained recently about the play of late. Their point was that even though none of us are happy with the level of play, that it could be worse. "Look at North Carolina, Indiana, UCLA, Arizona etc..." is their slogan. While I understand that perspective, the fact that others are in more trouble does little to comfort me. But apparently others don't feel the same way.
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hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Mar 3, 2010 14:45:56 GMT -5
hifi,
It's that time of year. The hopes of fans all over the country of, "a championship season" are falling like the leaves of November fell when the ref first threw the ball up for grabs.
It's a sad, sad thing.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Mar 3, 2010 16:50:45 GMT -5
Yep, I feel 'ya on that one.
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