miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 8, 2010 16:26:42 GMT -5
Yea, I must admit, it hurts to hear about AI's troubles. So far, nothing approaching the out of nowhere kick in the groin that was the saga of Smitty, but now at least I understand why he hasn't been effective these last couple of years. The evils of drink. Alcohol addiction is almost the worst there is, you can get booze anywhere, and unlike say, crack or smack or meth or oxy, an alcohol addiction takes a while to take flight, some long term bad habits already in place before it occurs to you there may be trouble....
As far as why a Hoya fan would care about AI, that's a joke, right? I mean, it is awfully hard to believe any fan of Georgetown Hoya Basketball who was on the bus in the early-mid 1990's would begrudge AI the life he has led. Don't forget, if it wasn't for a serious miscarriage of justice in Hampton Roads, VA, Allen Iverson would have been a professional football player, and he apparently would have been in Tallahassee, Florida playing two sports ala (a much more talented version of) Charlie Ward for the 'Noles as opposed to just hoops for the Hoyas. Anyway, all due respect Guru, but I don't think AI to GTown should be considered "dirty". Opportunistic, perhaps, but dirty is off base. AI, much like Tiger Woods or LT or President Clinton or Jerry Garcia or Charlie Parker, I can love them for what they have done for me in their field, without holding them to an unreasonable standard off of it.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 8, 2010 16:36:49 GMT -5
Love the Charlie Parker reference. And agree totally with your sentiment.
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paranoya
Century (over 100 posts)
"Iverson was cool but I supported Victor Page. It's a DC thing, in case you ain't notice." - Wale
Posts: 234
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Post by paranoya on Mar 8, 2010 17:49:48 GMT -5
Yea, I must admit, it hurts to hear about AI's troubles. So far, nothing approaching the out of nowhere kick in the groin that was the saga of Smitty, but now at least I understand why he hasn't been effective these last couple of years. The evils of drink. Alcohol addiction is almost the worst there is, you can get booze anywhere, and unlike say, crack or smack or meth or oxy, an alcohol addiction takes a while to take flight, some long term bad habits already in place before it occurs to you there may be trouble.... As far as why a Hoya fan would care about AI, that's a joke, right? I mean, it is awfully hard to believe any fan of Georgetown Hoya Basketball who was on the bus in the early-mid 1990's would begrudge AI the life he has led. Don't forget, if it wasn't for a serious miscarriage of justice in Hampton Roads, VA, Allen Iverson would have been a professional football player, and he apparently would have been in Tallahassee, Florida playing two sports ala (a much more talented version of) Charlie Ward for the 'Noles as opposed to just hoops for the Hoyas. Anyway, all due respect Guru, but I don't think AI to GTown should be considered "dirty". Opportunistic, perhaps, but dirty is off base. AI, much like Tiger Woods or LT or President Clinton or Jerry Garcia or Charlie Parker, I can love them for what they have done for me in their field, without holding them to an unreasonable standard off of it. THANK YOU MIRACLES. Some of the comments in this thread make me embarrassed to be a Hoyas fan. As someone above said, the high horse some of you like to pretend to ride on is nauseating and only contributes to the negative stereotypes about our school. Iverson doesn't owe us anything and just because you don't like the way he has spent his money doesn't mean jack to anyone. Also altering history doesn't do anything either because he has been back for Kenner and done other things as noted above (and yes I personally would have liked a lot more involvement myself but honestly it isn't my business). Finally, how does anyone on this board know if and what he has contributed to the school? Yeah that's right, none of us do and if you do happen to work at Gtown and have access to that info. I am pretty sure you are not at liberty to say in a public forum. So really save your ire and revisionist history for Cuse grads. My thoughts and prayers go out to AI and his family and I hope he turns his life around and even if he doesn't it will take a lot more than allegations (from Stephen A. Smith of all people?!) for me to start disparaging him.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Mar 8, 2010 17:57:35 GMT -5
I have never been a huge AI guy - never followed him much in the pros but occasionally tuned in to an AI game in college. No question there are serious issues here, largely stemming from a troubled youth, I think.
As a Georgetown alum, AI is a mixed blessing. As compared to the rest of our hoops alumni/former player base, AI falls toward the bottom as to conduct. However, I have always wondered what would have happened but for Pops and Georgetown in AI's case. I usually come out on the side that AI would be dead. So, anything short of that in AI's case is acceptable to me. Would I like his conduct to be "better?" Absolutely, and I do not mean to discount that.
I would also question the premise that AI does not do anything for us. It is a misconception that our former players do not help - they just do it behind the scenes, I think. Recall that Zo has been on the Hilltop to help out Roy et al. Would it be great if they paid up and stepped up for an alumni base that has not forked over a single $10M check? Absolutely, but it isn't as though garden variety alumni blame alumni for not doing either. In AI's case, the time has long since passed when he could have done that - he's now poorer than any of us would want to believe, I think.
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hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
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Post by hoyaalf on Mar 8, 2010 19:08:59 GMT -5
IF he confronts his issues, he should be encouraged, even welcomed to return to get his degree.
IF he does that succesfully, then ... well, as we all know wiith a urine-resistant GU diploma, the sky's the limit.
BUT [fill in Coach Chaney's closing line.]
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 8, 2010 19:50:10 GMT -5
goood luck to him he is a hoya and a fellow human being... yup men and women for others .....good luck... wish he had stayed four years to gain some life insites... but good luck...
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,740
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 8, 2010 20:02:44 GMT -5
It is a misconception that our former players do not help - they just do it behind the scenes, I think. Recall that Zo has been on the Hilltop to help out Roy et al. Would it be great if they paid up and stepped up for an alumni base that has not forked over a single $10M check? Which alumni base are you referring to? Outside athletics, Robert McDevitt gave $70M, Saad Hariri $20M. While rare, these exist. Among athletes in general, and basketball in specific, there is not an emphasized culture of giving back. However, one can give back without a check, as evidenced by the work Paul Tagliabue is doing on behalf of the University--he's probably not going to be a $10M donor either but is out on the front lines and is going to be one of the two or three most important figures in the upcoming capital campaign. As the last of the Thompson era players are retiring (Ewing Sr. being the last active one as a coach), Georgetown ought to welcome them back not with its hand out but with a hand to shake on. If you want to sell the campaign, sell the scholarship imperative, sell the (shhhhh.....) training facility, why not enlist a John Duren, a Reggie Williams, maybe even an Allen Iverson to tell their stories and help take this to the next level--but only after Allen gets his personal life in order and back on track.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 8, 2010 20:03:06 GMT -5
I'd quickly like to point out that AI left school early not just for the NBA but because of what the NBA could offer him in terms of taking care of his family. In addition, by all accounts, he has, in fact, taken care of his family. Also, I choose to believe that he left the Sixers to attend to his daughter who is apparently ill. I've not seen anywhere where this has been questioned or proven untrue. Aren't these things that are worthy of praise? And, sadly, too often not the sort of things you hear about professional athletes at this point (Hey Cromartie... sweet advance ya got there for all of your child support payments). Even if that weren't the case, he's a Hoya for life. We should treat him as such.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,657
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Post by seaweed on Mar 8, 2010 20:17:20 GMT -5
I am not in denial but Stephen A Smith is a self-aggrandizing whore and him quoting "several NBA sources" is like calling anonymous posters on here "sources close to the program." AI likely does have serious issues, but I will not take the word of that scum wrt this or any other single thing (maybe where to pay for ass in philly).
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Mar 8, 2010 20:51:28 GMT -5
It is a misconception that our former players do not help - they just do it behind the scenes, I think. Recall that Zo has been on the Hilltop to help out Roy et al. Would it be great if they paid up and stepped up for an alumni base that has not forked over a single $10M check? Which alumni base are you referring to? Outside athletics, Robert McDevitt gave $70M, Saad Hariri $20M. While rare, these exist. Among athletes in general, and basketball in specific, there is not an emphasized culture of giving back. However, one can give back without a check, as evidenced by the work Paul Tagliabue is doing on behalf of the University--he's probably not going to be a $10M donor either but is out on the front lines and is going to be one of the two or three most important figures in the upcoming capital campaign. As the last of the Thompson era players are retiring (Ewing Sr. being the last active one as a coach), Georgetown ought to welcome them back not with its hand out but with a hand to shake on. If you want to sell the campaign, sell the scholarship imperative, sell the (shhhhh.....) training facility, why not enlist a John Duren, a Reggie Williams, maybe even an Allen Iverson to tell their stories and help take this to the next level--but only after Allen gets his personal life in order and back on track. My $10M check point was just as to the practice facility and basketball alumni. The only other point I'd make is that this is a classic chicken-egg problem. I refuse to blame the basketball alumni until the Administration commits to a practice facility (beyond a statement in an e-mail from the Interim AD). Commitment would require raising money for the express purpose of building the facility, including the facility in a 10 year plan, and the like. Our well-off basketball alumni, I hope, would know better than to throw money at GU without this kind of commitment, and, as to GU, these guys are used to supporting initiatives that are well-run. I could see how they may be put off by certain approaches and how issues are generally addressed within Athletics and Healy.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 8, 2010 21:13:57 GMT -5
Which alumni base are you referring to? Outside athletics, Robert McDevitt gave $70M, Saad Hariri $20M. While rare, these exist. Among athletes in general, and basketball in specific, there is not an emphasized culture of giving back. However, one can give back without a check, as evidenced by the work Paul Tagliabue is doing on behalf of the University--he's probably not going to be a $10M donor either but is out on the front lines and is going to be one of the two or three most important figures in the upcoming capital campaign. As the last of the Thompson era players are retiring (Ewing Sr. being the last active one as a coach), Georgetown ought to welcome them back not with its hand out but with a hand to shake on. If you want to sell the campaign, sell the scholarship imperative, sell the (shhhhh.....) training facility, why not enlist a John Duren, a Reggie Williams, maybe even an Allen Iverson to tell their stories and help take this to the next level--but only after Allen gets his personal life in order and back on track. My $10M check point was just as to the practice facility and basketball alumni. The only other point I'd make is that this is a classic chicken-egg problem. I refuse to blame the basketball alumni until the Administration commits to a practice facility (beyond a statement in an e-mail from the Interim AD). Commitment would require raising money for the express purpose of building the facility, including the facility in a 10 year plan, and the like. Our well-off basketball alumni, I hope, would know better than to throw money at GU without this kind of commitment, and, as to GU, these guys are used to supporting initiatives that are well-run. I could see how they may be put off by certain approaches and how issues are generally addressed within Athletics and Healy. I think this is a great point. In addition to which, while I'd love to see us commit to and actually build a new facility, I can't help but greatly admire the causes and contributions to society in a larger sense than our beloved school that guys like Deke and Alonzo and JYD (among others) have given their time and money to. I hate to say it in a way but seeing those guys give back to kids and those that really need it as opposed to Georgetown to make our recruiting easier seems like they have their priorities straight. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Alonzo Mourning Gym or something similar but it's worth noting that what our alumni have done, in the scheme of things, is much more important. What we need are hands-off yet crazy wealthy basketball fanatic alumni as opposed to the guys we've had who are into their respective charities/community work actually doing the dirty work and showing up and giving their time and not just their money. I'm probably plenty lazy but, alas, lack the funds.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 8, 2010 21:20:58 GMT -5
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,749
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 8, 2010 21:36:54 GMT -5
Love Iverson. The kid gave us everything he had when he was a Hoya. So he's got some personal demons....so what!!! I feel bad for him on a personal level but I am not going to judge him for it, rather I am going to pray for him and hope he turns his life around. He's a good kid with a tendency to sabotage. That's it.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 8, 2010 22:08:37 GMT -5
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Mar 8, 2010 22:12:17 GMT -5
I really, really want AI to get his life together. I have always wanted that, even before he came to Georgetown and especially after. How he conducts himself reflects on the university, JT2, and in a small way, all of us.
I especially wouldn't wish a seriously sick child on anyone. For us to wish him (and her) anything but the best in this situation would be cruel.
Having said that, I think JT2 made some serious compromises with what I think should be the academic and character standards of Georgetown University. AI was only the most prominent, or at least the most recently so. What bothered me the most about Allen was that he never did seem interested in an education. As soon as basketball season was over, he stopped going to class and started driving a Mercedes of unknown ownership around town.
Every so often, it looks like he has turned the corner and gained some much-needed maturity and humility. I root for him in those moments. But that's what, so far, they turn out to be: moments. I end up embarrassed for him and, to an extent, for us - because I want to believe we have higher standards and turn out people of higher character than other programs. He has repeatedly undermined my case.
Which isn't to say that it's all his fault. His circumstances growing up were quite different from most of us. Who knows how we would have fared if we had been saddled with the same disadvantages?
I just wish it were otherwise. And I hope his daughter recovers and gives him some of the strength that he almost certainly can use.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 8, 2010 23:23:19 GMT -5
JT2 did not recruit AI, as I recall -- Ann Iverson called him and he agreed to coach her son.
I've always remembered a line from a Washington Post article about Michael Graham's departure (I think Ken Denlinger wrote it): "Georgetown used Michael Graham. It's too bad Michael Graham couldn't use Georgetown."
This is the bargain any school makes with a high-risk player. There isn't anything "dirty" about it.
I don't think AI ever had the luxury of a solid veteran presence on any of the Philly teams he played on early in his career, a la Magic-Kareem. He was the show and he knew it.
The whole thing is very unfortunate -- he deserves better than to end up in the same bucket as Vin Baker and Roy Tarpley.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 9, 2010 0:11:28 GMT -5
JT2 did not recruit AI, as I recall -- Ann Iverson called him and he agreed to coach her son. I've always remembered a line from a Washington Post article about Michael Graham's departure (I think Ken Denlinger wrote it): "Georgetown used Michael Graham. It's too bad Michael Graham couldn't use Georgetown." This is the bargain any school makes with a high-risk player. There isn't anything "dirty" about it. I don't think AI ever had the luxury of a solid veteran presence on any of the Philly teams he played on early in his career, a la Magic-Kareem. He was the show and he knew it. The whole thing is very unfortunate -- he deserves better than to end up in the same bucket as Vin Baker and Roy Tarpley. Obviously, this will be pure conjecture but AI being who he was with the ability he was born with would have been the best player on pretty much any crap team with a high draft pick at the time. As such, being a young guy with only his rep, talent and swagger having gotten him to where he made it to, I'm not sure there was an NBA vet that would have had an influence. JT2 was probably the best thing for him. If AI had been born 8 or 9 years earlier when JT2 was at the height of his power, he'd probably have benefited even more from the time around campus (not to mention the fact that most guys stayed longer back then). That being said, an important point was made above about where AI came from and where he went. In a lot of ways, personally I think he's done better than one should have expected. At this point, none of that matters, at least for now. If he's not playing ball, I hope he finds something constructive to put all of his energy and drive into. He's got those in spades and always has. He maybe lacks direction and has issues to deal with but I'm hoping he gets his sh%t together because he clearly can succeed against pretty nasty odds. I'm mostly hopeful that his daughter gets well soon and that some Hoya basketball alums reach out in some way to let him know that he's still family.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Mar 9, 2010 12:22:56 GMT -5
Well said.
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Post by rockyhoyashow on Mar 9, 2010 16:05:15 GMT -5
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 9, 2010 16:33:17 GMT -5
Nice link rockyhoya. Thanks for the new quote!
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