bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Feb 21, 2010 23:53:41 GMT -5
We don't have a best 6th man. Sometimes we don't even have a good 4th or 5th man. This team is way too dependant on three players.
When we have 4 players or more in double figures we are undefeated (11-0).
When we have 3 players in double figures and the opponent has 4 we are 1-3 (we lost at Villanova, and to Rutgers and Syracuse at home when they had four to our three, but beat UConn because Freeman personally offset 3 UConn double figure scorers).
When we have 2 players in double figures we are 1-3 (we lost at Marquette, at Syracuse, and to USF with only two in double figures, but beat Butler because Monroe personally offset 2 of them.)
We are 5-1 when we have 3 in double figures and the opponent has 3 or less.
We need our 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th men to play even with their counterparts by scoring and/or by stopping the other guys. Our big three can beat their best three, but we can't expect to win 3 on 4 or 5.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 22, 2010 0:18:32 GMT -5
This is only a question and not a knock, but has JT3 in his tenure here ever gone with more than a 7-8 man rotation? And to those familiar with his teams at Princeton, did he employ a rotation there of more than 7-8?
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Feb 22, 2010 2:03:45 GMT -5
Everyone has their own interpretation of things, but i can't see how people say that Benimon is not decent and not ready for BE play - heck everyone their first season isn't ready for BE play (save for a few frosh phenoms). He does instinctive things you can't teach and i can just see 3 years from now he, hollis and vee being pretty darn good. speaking of Vee - every time he gets in the game he makes a great play. i mean, why not play the guy? the team seems a bit worn down and could use a bit less of a grind. I'd give him 10 minutes. Granted he may not know the offense, but is everyone being taught the offense besides the starters? He's a pretty good defensive guard.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Feb 22, 2010 9:14:09 GMT -5
This is only a question and not a knock, but has JT3 in his tenure here ever gone with more than a 7-8 man rotation? And to those familiar with his teams at Princeton, did he employ a rotation there of more than 7-8? 8 has been the norm. Tyler Crawford spent four years as the 9th man and it seems that after every season JTIII said he should have played him more.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 22, 2010 9:25:39 GMT -5
Imagine if this team had Rivers and Macklin...that is the quality, experienced depth we are lacking. Neither is a world beater and both have significant holes in their game, but so do the 2 frosh we're currently relying on for the minimal depth we have (Thompson - no defense, Bennimon - no offense). Add Macklin and Rivers to this squad and we're 7 deep with guys that can play. Right now, we're 5 1/2 deep (I still have confidence in Hollis, though he's been more limited than I expected as a freshman). A 5 1/2 deep team just isn't going to go too far in a loaded Big East. We really need the brackets to break our way to have a good shot at the Sweet 16, which isn't something you should say about a team with 3 McDonald's All Americans on it, including the #1 recruit in the country for his class. No. Rivers is shooting 40% FG, 0% 3PT%, and 55% FT. The Hoosiers are on an 8 game losing streak. His FG% is actually higher than normal because Crean has stopped Rivers from shooting any 3s. It's still a really sad FG% considering it's all short range shots or layups. 55% FT is atrocious for a guard. Macklin's shooting 54% at Florida but as a big man you can live with that. But for a shooting guard to shoot 55% FT as a 4th year player is beyond awful. If Rivers was still on Georgetown he would eat 30 minutes a game as a junior from Freeman/Clark/Wright. Rivers is still an offensive liability and is a detriment to the team. *** Benimon is shooting 80% from the FT line so he is showing he may have a shooters touch and is just uncomfortable being the 5th offensive option which was the same problem Nikita had because every shot you take is magnified which just adds more pressure. I think we won't know till next year how good he is offensively. Right now he can't finish and the best thing he can do is not shoot since there are 4 other option. The problem with Rivers, he would keep jacking up shots and turning it over which cost the team possessions when you had other high percentage options. Offensively Bennimon is where Vaughn was last year, but we've seen how much improvement Vaughn's made in one off season, so the I'm not going to make any long term prediction on Bennimon as a player. *** Macklin would have been nice to have just to add depth for Vaughn and Monroe, especially when they got into foul trouble but not much you can do since he wanted to leave.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 22, 2010 9:25:41 GMT -5
The depth and rotation questions are interesting because this season Texas's coach Barnes has been getting hammered in the press for using too many players in his rotation and minimizing his best player's contributions while not allowing the team to get into any type of flow on offense. Because we run such a methodical and precision based offense, I am not sure if we will ever see the rotation reach beyond 7 or 8 players.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 22, 2010 9:27:42 GMT -5
Not sure this is relevant to all of the player bashing that we have going on here (and JB is going to be a very solid Big East player as is Hollis; haven't seen enough of Vee to even guess), but is it maybe, just maybe, a little tougher to get kids INTO Georgetown than say hmm.... Memphis or Kentucky or Syracuse or Connecticut? I mean for classes and things. You remember those. The college part of college basketball? Just a thought.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 22, 2010 10:00:49 GMT -5
The depth and rotation questions are interesting because this season Texas's coach Barnes has been getting hammered in the press for using too many players in his rotation and minimizing his best player's contributions while not allowing the team to get into any type of flow on offense. Because we run such a methodical and precision based offense, I am not sure if we will ever see the rotation reach beyond 7 or 8 players. I agree that our rotation will likely never get past 7 or 8 players, the issue is that we are not 7-8 players deep right now. And that isn't meant as a slam on Hollis or JB...they are both freshmen that I look forward to watching for the next few years. They are just not there now for a team that otherwise has a top 10 makeup. hm
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 22, 2010 10:18:08 GMT -5
Beninmon is our best 6th man, but he shouldn't be.
He should be an 8th or 9th man, that can come on the floor and be a great role player for you as a freshman, given the fact that he is quite limited in what he can do.
How you use your depth is based on the coach and recruiting. Boeheim over his career has normally used a short bench. And can do that with the zone he plays. Whereas with JT2 always liked to have a lot of depth, 8-9, sometime 10-man rotations, because he pressed a lot.
The issue is not how many players one should use, i think the issue boils down to recruiting and the acquiring and development of talent.
For all of his superlatives, I think JTIII has failed in this area during his tenure.
Its one thing to add a couple of pieces (Summers, Ewing, Jr., Wallace, Sapp) to some great talent and role players another coach has brought in for you (Green, Cook, Owens, Crawford, and Hibbert), its another thing to build an entire roster.
JTIII's greatest success was with the aforementioned group.
His current group of players he acquired himself, have been a mixed bag of results. Transfers/departures are numerous, and depth(or lack thereof) is is an issue.
If we are ever going to go back to the times of sweet 16's and Final fours, JTIII needs to address this issue.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 22, 2010 11:03:00 GMT -5
LOL!
"Dumes and Rivers should never play again. Dumes and Rivers are our oldest players and make the worst decisons"
"In the 1st half action Rivers attempts to split a double team only to be knocked down and the ball go to MSU for an uncontested layup. This sort of thing happens all the time. I can only think he gets away with it in practice and, therefore, thinks he can pull this move off in the game. Problem is he is practicing against IU . . . who has got to be the physically weakest team in the B10. You always hear that a son of a coach REALLY understands the game. I am afraid that is NOT the case with Rivers. He has to make better decisions. Settle for a good shot and not a spectacular shot
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 22, 2010 11:51:02 GMT -5
Jerrelle is our best 6th man when we need to replace Julian or Greg; he can bang enough inside and give us a few boards, but his O needs alot of work, much like Julian's did last year (and still needs more improvement, which we will continue to see). Hollis is our best 6th man when we need a perimeter player who can hit a shot now and then and try to guard another perimeter player. Neither is a big offensive spark we can bring in when we're not hitting shots. Way is right - they should be in the 7-9 range, but it is what it is. Coach undoubtedly thought Henry would be farther along this year, which would bump Jerrelle back a spot. He may have hoped that Omar and/or Nikita would have developed into stronger options that could shoot from the perimeter. We have what we have. Let's get over it. And to try to pronounce Jerrelle as a recruiting failure, as a freshman with less than a season under his belt, thrust into a bigger role than anyone planned, is just nonsensical. By the way, how is UNC doing with its 7 McD AA's this year??
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Feb 22, 2010 12:09:00 GMT -5
Benimon is a hybrid '2-3' not a 4 or 5.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Feb 22, 2010 13:29:09 GMT -5
Benimon is a hybrid '2-3' not a 4 or 5. JB is a natural 4, but has the size (height) of a 3 but the width of a 4. If only he were HS height. But seriously JB is a good player with a chance to be a contributor here. Nobody this summer after his signing thought he would see minutes. He has done an admirable job trying to contribute. But it isnt his fault we have no depth and he has to jump into the fire earlier than he probably is ready.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 22, 2010 13:35:09 GMT -5
I see JB as a 3. He doesn't have a great shot or a handle, but his skill set (as it is) is definitely perimeter-based. He's got a little bulldog in him, but he'd be an awful rebounder for a 4 while a good one for a 3.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 22, 2010 13:48:26 GMT -5
JB's value will be down the road. The experience he's getting as a freshman on a higly-ranked team, playing the top SOS in the country will be invaluable for the next three years. I don't see him as a Nikita or Omar who wanted to leave for whatever reasons. I think he's the first of many staying and contributing as role players for four years. As for this year, he should keep it simple, cut back on TO's, rebound more and play tough defense.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 22, 2010 13:50:35 GMT -5
JB's value will be down the road. The experience he's getting as a freshman on a higly-ranked team, playing the top SOS in the country will be invaluable for the next three years. I don't see him as a Nikita or Omar who wanted to leave for whatever reasons. I think he's the first of many staying and contributing as role players for four years. As for this year, he should keep it simple, cut back on TO's, rebound more and play tough defense. Great points.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 22, 2010 14:59:43 GMT -5
Benimon is a hybrid '2-3' not a 4 or 5. I really don't see him as a 2, but he is certainly more of a 3/4. He has had to be the 4 too much this year, will take alot of work to be able to be quick enough at the 3.
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