Response to Editorial on Front Page

[hoyaball]

Fellow Hoyas fans,

I write in response to the editorial on the front page of HoyaSaxa.com. I agree with everything said there, but write to suggest that the problem we face runs deeper than anything that can be cured by a change in ticket policy from Georgetown officials. Many Georgetown basketball fans are simply not truly and entirely dedicated to supporting the team. Georgetown has die-hard fans, don’t get me wrong, but when you think of the nuttiest, craziest, “I’d do anything for my team” type of fans, who do you think of? Duke, Syracuse, Kentucky, Indiana, North Carolina, UCONN to a lesser extent maybe. You probably can think of a few more. Think about it—a Syracuse or Duke fan selling tickets to fans of Georgetown or North Carolina would fear for his or her physical safety, no exaggeration. Why not at Georgetown? It’s different. But can it change? I think it can.

Look at the increase in fan support (and even die-hard fan support) after the arrival of JTIII. Since taking over as Hoya Hoop Club President, Alfred Bozzo has done excellent things to improve fan accessibility and, as a result, increase fan support and dedication. We’re starting to see more Georgetown fans at road games the past few years. So things may be looking up, even if the progress is slow. More can be done, though. It’s one thing for Georgetown officials to take away season tickets from holders who sell their tickets to opposing teams. But how will that change the hearts of Georgetown fans? Would that make them more faithful? While I would fully support such a policy by Georgetown officials, I think that additional, more proactive and enthusiastic measures can be taken to get into the hearts of our fans to make them more faithful. To LOVE Georgetown basketball.

I LOVE Georgetown basketball. On February 2nd of this year, I learned that I could not use my two tickets to the Villanova game because I had to be home with my daughter. I knew that I could get good money for my seats on stubhub, but I simply could not stand the thought of Villanova fans sitting in MY seats. I offered them on this site at face value, knowing they would be in good hands. I could have gotten tons of money for my Duke seats. But no money could take away the greatest feeling I get of watching my team play its heart out against the Dukies. I mean it – no amount of money. There are many other fans who would take a similar stand as me. And recently, the number of such fans has probably increased. But more can be done. We can all do more to be innovative and create ways to improve the dedication. I am not affiliated with the Hoya Hoop Club, but I have emailed Mr. Bozzo with ideas on more than one occasion. He has been receptive. We are lucky to have such an outlet. Use it (and any other you might think of, including contacting the basketball office directly). Let’s try to continue to build a dedicated, faithful, die-hard fan base. Even if it is slow going, don’t give up. Go Hoyas!

[jerseyhoya34]

For the most part, I agree with hoyaball.

I've been highly critical of Georgetown's administration and McDonough, particularly in the area of fundraising restrictions. I'll continue to be critical when it is warranted. Here, the blame Georgetown argument is one over which they have very little control. An enterprising fan of another program could very easily buy season tickets, keep a game or two, and sell the rest, netting a profit in the process. How do you know who that person is or who that person isn't? McDonough doesn't unless someone says something. Who says something? I know FLHoya et al. have reported 118B for their seasons-old Stubhubbing. Who in the other sections cares enough to do this? The posters on this board. The wine and cheese crowd, maybe not so much.

Another factor in play...A good chunk of our fan base simply does not care as much about SU as Duke and maybe even Villanova/ND. Many people I knew at GU picked GU over ND and/or Nova and had rivalries with family members who went to those schools. With Duke, many students at GU also applied to Duke and vice-versa. Far fewer could give you a respectable list of top 5 SU/GU games or even identify the Manley Field House game and its significance to the rivalry. So, what helped us against Duke killed us against SU.

Since I am no longer in or around DC, I made the choice this season to keep my ticket seniority such as it is but found someone else who wanted my seat and would buy the ticket end of the deal. It took a few emails for me to understand the logistics of it all, but Steve Alleva was, as always, outstanding. One of the only reasons why this conversation is happening is that he has upped our ticketing effort to such a degree that we have expectations as to who should buy certain seats. Three-four years ago, a different conversation indeed. Point is that we have to use those resources as opposed to expect that we can do nothing vis-a-vis this ticketing issue and it will all work out as we want it.

My $.02.

[tjm62]

I don't mind that our fans are not quite as raucous. We are smarter and classier than those institutions, and I'm not sure I ever met ANYONE at college that would be the type to throw beer on opposing fans gratuitously. This will weaken our homecourt advantage, but I accept it.

Selling tickets, particularly to fans of the opposing team (even though I imagine it is generally through giant sites like stubhub at this point), however, is not acceptable. As alumni, I'm hard pressed to believe that we couldn't find some interested party to go to a game like Syracuse/Georgetown where every bit of crowd support is important.

[grokamok]

It's too much short-sightedness about the $$$. "Bad" season-ticket holders will continue to be "bad," acting as free riders on the backs of the "good" season-ticket holders, unless the Athletic Department institutes policies strong enough to discourage the "bad" behavior. However, ticketing policies that ensure GU fans are in the stands, especially against high-profile competition, would be in direct conflict with maximizing sales revenue from game to game. I'd call it a classic case of behavioral economics.

A longer-term view, in which a more distinct home-court advantage (from elements such as courtside student seating, restrictive resale policies, etc.) results in a more competitive program, which then results in higher revenue from ticket sale volume from increased overall attendance and, especially, from merchandising, seems to be beyond the Athletic Department's grasp.

[CAHoya07]

We'll need another Gray Out next year, and this needs to happen against Syracuse. Whatever the Athletic Department did for the Duke game - making tickets available for GU season ticketholders and donors first - please do this for the Syracuse game next year too. And for West Virginia too, if we have them at home. These are the two schools where I think we have this problem the most. The upper deck was predominantly orange for this game, while it was predominantly Hoya supporters for the Duke game. We need to make this happen again.

That and yes, we need some sort of system for punishing GU season ticketholders for selling their tickets to opposing fans. Can this be done through StubHub? Do any other schools have a system of doing this that we can replicate?

To be honest, yes, it was bad last night, but I think it was more or less on a similar level as it has been in previous years. The biggest difference was that Syracuse went on a huge run to start the game, so it really got their fans going. It's funny, I could not hear them when we made our run to trim a 23 point lead to one. All I could hear were thousands of raucous Hoya fans.

Games like this remind me that we have come a long way as a team, program, and fanbase, but we are not quite elite status yet. It takes time to build, and we were almost starting from scratch when JT III climbed on board. The Athletic Department has taken some good steps in the past few years, and it needs to continue doing so.

Now, let's beat the hell out of Louisville.

[tjm62]

Comon guys, there definitely shouldnt be anyone "punished" for selling their tickets to opposing fans. People are allowed to resell their tickets, and I wouldn't be surprised if many had no idea who they were selling them to.

The answer, clearly, is finding ways to stop it from happening. That means finding incentives for people to not sell their seats (or sell them to opposing fans). It might mean setting up a better resale network that more easily allows people to sell tickets to potentially interested in Hoyas fans.

[hoyaball]

tjm62, I agree that people are allowed to resell their tickets. I also believe, however, that Georgetown University (and other individuals) are allowed to punish those who decide to earn great profits by selling their tickets potentially to opposing fans.

[jerseyhoya34]

The Global Phenomenon is building a list of "Seats of Shame," which follows some of the comments on that site and the HoyaSaxa editorial this morning. It seems to be a good, organic effort that would assist McD should they decide to be more aggressive toward season ticketholders.

www.casualhoya.com/2010/2/19/1317266/traitorous-season-ticket-holders

[thejerseytornado]

Someone who sells their seats once or twice vs. a fake season ticket holder is a bigger deal.

I'd rather have a hoya fan there 4 out of 5 times and 1 out of 5 times take a risk than make season tickets even more unaffordable (moment of honesty: I've listed weekday tickets on stub hub. I live 2.5 hours away. Shoot me. Without doing that, I couldn't have afforded tickets, and there aren't many fans bigger than I am).

Two of the main reasons this problem exists are out of G'town's hands:
1. DC is an easy to get to metropolis with a national population. There are many more cuse or duke or nova or whoever fans in or near DC than is true of 95% (at least!) of other basketball teams. So when tickets go onto stubhub, it's more likely to be sold to opposing fans making a trip or opposing fans living in or near DC than, say, upstate NY.
2. The verizon center is HUGE. G'town's alumni and student population aren't. Cuse is a huge school population (yet their aggregate IQ, probably still lower than g'towns...), for comparison sake. Cameron's a small stadium, etc. etc.

This attempt to demonize all who sell tickets ever is just going to hurt season ticket sales. You won't find a bigger fan than my alumni girlfriend and I too regularly (we made it down for the nova game. god bless amtrak), but ostracizing people who sell a ticket occasionally means we become the enemy. that ain't right.

[3xhoya]

jerseytornado, the thing is you could probably sell all the tickets you don't use on the ticket exchange board for face value to other Hoya fans. This way you will wind up only paying for games that you are able to attend. I live in Philly and have season tickets and I too am strapped for cash. I sell my tickets, but do so to friends/other Hoya fans. I would never consider selling them on Stubhub for fear of them getting in the hands of opposing teams. In the rare chance I can not sell them to a Hoya fan, I donate them back to the school and that can be used as a tax deduction.

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 19, 2010 17:38:03 GMT -5 thejerseytornado said:

2. The verizon center is HUGE. G'town's alumni and student population aren't. Cuse is a huge school population (yet their aggregate IQ, probably still lower than g'towns...), for comparison sake. Cameron's a small stadium, etc. etc.

Syracuse is not a huge school: of the 16 schools in the Big East, it is 9th largest (ahead of Georgetown, but trailing DePaul and St. John's) with 12,500 undergraduates, or slightly more than GW.

[NCHoya]

This is a tough issue because it is hard for a school Gtown's size to fill the Verizon Center. That is the major difference between us and some of the schools mentioned, remember Cameron is only 10,000 seats and many state schools also have smaller venues than the Verizon center with much larger enrollments than GU. I am not sure how you prevent it from happening other than better marketing like for the Duke game.

Face it, Georgetown is a school with a location most of our opposing fan bases wish they had for themselves. I cannot blame them for wanting to take in a game.

[HometownHoya]

If only all gates had screening and if you are wearing Grey you are allowed to sit in the 100s and lower. If you are wearing the opposing school's color you are relegated to the 400s. If you are wearing a neutral color (including dress shirt blue...thats NOT HOYA BLUE) you get 200s.

Oh btw, this just came to me for the student section too: I like that you make the effort to bring your own face/body paint but if you do please make sure that it is the SAME shade of Blue and Grey as our colors

[fsohoya]

Feb 19, 2010 17:58:19 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

This is a tough issue because it is hard for a school Gtown's size to fill the Verizon Center. That is the major difference between us and some of the schools mentioned, remember Cameron is only 10,000 seats and many state schools also have smaller venues than the Verizon center with much larger enrollments than GU. I am not sure how you prevent it from happening other than better marketing like for the Duke game.

Face it, Georgetown is a school with a location most of our opposing fan bases wish they had for themselves. I cannot blame them for wanting to take in a game.

This is absolutely true and our biggest opposing-fan problem. We are in a huge, magnetic metropolis, and most other schools aren't. Indeed, last night I was yelling "at least we didn't go to Syracuse" and one of the Cuse fans in front of me, apparently thinking I was just referring to the town, said he completely agreed -- the weather and town are terrible. We also play in a venue way too big for a school our size especially considering that, unlike Syracuse, we are far from the only sporting game in town.

That said, there are a few things we can do:

1) Make the games a great experience for students: I think we're doing this, with JTIII reaching out to student fans, and the Verizon Center an infinitely better location than the old Cap Center where we played when I was student. We have to build a lifelong love of the program and, I'm sorry to say, we really never did this until JT III -- not Pops -- arrived.

2) Market GU as Washington, DC's college basketball team. With UDC irrelevant and no state school representing the District, we could undertake a campaign to say "people of Washington, the Hoyas are YOUR team!"

3) The University must never give the tickets it controls to anyone other than people who will support the Hoyas. I don't know how many seats this would cover, but GU needs to start with it's own house.

[thejerseytornado]

Cuse has 12,500 undergrads and another 6000 grad students in upstate NY. That's a captive audience. Much larger than georgetown's.

in regards to selling on the exchange board, two points: one, I only discovered the exchange board as an option this year. We've had season tickets for three years. So maybe I convert, but that's just an example. Meanwhile, georgetown has an agreement with stubhub. So that's not a feasible option for making big changes. Maybe for me or some others who read casual hoya and hoyatalk, but that's it. Beyond that, it's hard to turn down $150 in profits from selling one ticket as that covers 4 other games. Some can, some can't. I'm not going to criticize the person who can't afford to do that (I'm not saying that's me, but it is possible that you need that cash and have young alumni tickets)...just like I'm not going to criticize the fan who can't afford season tickets. It's the person who goes in on season tickets for the profit that should be shamed.

[RusskyHoya]

Feb 19, 2010 17:52:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 19, 2010 17:38:03 GMT -5 thejerseytornado said:

2. The verizon center is HUGE. G'town's alumni and student population aren't. Cuse is a huge school population (yet their aggregate IQ, probably still lower than g'towns...), for comparison sake. Cameron's a small stadium, etc. etc.

Syracuse is not a huge school: of the 16 schools in the Big East, it is 9th largest (ahead of Georgetown, but trailing DePaul and St. John's) with 12,500 undergraduates, or slightly more than GW.

Syracuse has many "subway alumni" fans - townies from the city of Syracuse and the surrounding area, which lacks for any sort of excitement except that which is generated by Syracuse athletics.

By contrast, when you go to the holiday Georgetown games where half the lower bowl is comp tickets to local groups, you will find many of them cheering against Georgetown. This isn't out of any affiliation with the opposing school - I rather doubt the boisterous gentlemen singing Jeremy Lin's praises behind me in December were Harvard boosters. But for various reasons (and yes, there is a significant racial component to this), we are not DC's team and, absent a run of extended dominance that produces a massive bandwaggon effect, I don't think we ever will be.

[bmartin]

The Saturday games (UConn, Duke, Villanova, Notre Dame, Cincinnati) are in a miniplan that fills up a lot of the 400 level midcourt sections with DC fans who root for Georgetown but may not be connected to the university. The Syracuse game should always be included in the "big game" miniplan even if it is on a weeknight.

[hoya4ever]

I'm all for rewarding those that do not sell their seats to other teams' fans and in someway punishing those that do, but how do we pull it off?

I saw Casual's article and read the responses on the seats Hall of Shame. I don't know if anecdotal evidence can be used by the athletic department, though it is fine for us. How do you lookout for that? Our tix are scanned when we get there, but are they traceable? And even if they are, how do we associate them with who walked them in? Visual scans are no good and we can hardly go around asking everyone their affiliation.

As for our fans being classier, they can do that on their own time. The word "fan" is short for "fanatic". I don't see any of that in us. True, we are in a disadvantage as opposed to some other teams (DC never having had a "home" team and all) but that should not explain the lack of enthusiasm.

[wahoohoya]

I do think the school could do a better job marketing the program to locals. I didn't go to GU nor did anybody in my family. I grew up a big fan - having season tickets as a kid and staying loyal to Gtown basketball even while I was an undergrad at UVA (in the mid-90's when we actually had a decent program). Returned to being a season ticket holder a few years ago. Gtown basketball is a good product, and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for the team to become DC's team or at least get a lot more local interest. I think a good place to start would be to de-emphasize the "We are Georgetown" mantra. Even as a life long Hoya fan, it makes me feel like a bit of an outsider at the games - just seems elitist/exclusionary.

[skyhoya]

Penn State football makes the owner of the season tickets responsible for the actions of his guests. One of my guests was caught smoking in a deserted corner of the stadium last year at a game. On WEDNESDAY after the game, I had a certified letter notifying me who it was and that any future problems with me or my guests would result in the cancelling of all my tickets for all my seats for the rest of the season and that my tickets would be resold to other fans. They just cancel my barcodes.
The ushers also took out the Orange fans for their first improper action. It’s all about the experience and Georgetown has to protect the experience for their loyal fans.
If Georgetown would do what other schools do to protect their venue, we would have a much better experience. There are tons of season tickets owned by ticket brokers for our games. The first two rows of sections 109 and 113 are always on every ticket site and section 114 is full of brokers. If Georgetown made the policy that season ticket holders are responsible for their guest’s action, then the brokers would go away along with the steady stream of tickets to the scalpers in the street.