hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,429
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 21, 2010 9:00:58 GMT -5
OTOH, a frequent poster on this board once bragged that his brother threw a full bottle of water at an opposing player at Verizon, before the game, and hit him. He seemed really pleased. No one called him on it. Yeah, I guess sometimes we give EasyEd too much slack on here...
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Feb 21, 2010 10:51:48 GMT -5
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Feb 21, 2010 11:03:20 GMT -5
I went to the GTown game vs SU in the dome. Here is what I did. I cheer when we do well and I am quiet when we dont. I never engage hostile fans because they are beneath me. Most people yes even in the Dome are cool fans who want to talk politely about our team and the rivalry. If someone is a maniac do not engage them whatsoever.
The real problem is...... the SU fans showing up because they know they are going to win. Do you think they run to Hartford to watch them play Yukon? JTIII needs to get the kids up for this rivalry game the same way JB does. Start winning and they will stop showing up.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,785
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 21, 2010 11:49:36 GMT -5
This is the first time a III-led team has lost to Syracuse at home, isn't it?
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 21, 2010 11:57:42 GMT -5
Yep, I believe that is correct, SFHoya99. If nothing else, JTIII fully understands the importance of this rivalry, and the team gets up to play. Heck, even the Esherick-coached teams had a decent track record against the Orange. Syracuse fans certainly have no expectation of victory here in DC.
In other words, BronxHoya -- you've been lawyered.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 21, 2010 12:11:34 GMT -5
This is the first time a III-led team has lost to Syracuse at home, isn't it? Yeah first time the road team won in the series during the JTIII vs. Boeheim games. Unless you count the 2006 BET b/c we were the "home" team in that game...and if you can barely count Verizon Center games as "home" games in this series right now, MSG certainly wouldn't count either.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Feb 21, 2010 14:09:43 GMT -5
They expect to win in D.C. We do not expect to win in the Dome. Point differential wise they have dominated the series.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,785
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 21, 2010 14:21:53 GMT -5
They expect to win in D.C. We do not expect to win in the Dome. Point differential wise they have dominated the series. Huh? Do you have any proof of your first two statements? At first, you seemed to make the argument that since the Orange have won so much in DC, but that wasn't true.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 21, 2010 14:59:35 GMT -5
You are absolutely wrong that Syracuse has any expectation of victory here in DC. By and large the victories have been blowouts, and Syracuse's two wins have been close. Since 2000 and prior to last week, the Hoyas were 5-2 against Syracuse at home. Those wins included two 15 point victories, one 14 point victory, and one 11 point victory. The two losses -- both under Esherick, were an OT loss and a 3 point loss.
As discussed below, even on the road under JTIII, the Hoyas are not a "sure loss" at the Carrier Dome if you look at point differential. Two of our four losses in Syracuse were OT losses.
Also, FYI we've played two more road games than home games against Syracuse over the last 10 years -- plus three BET games that, all intents and purposes, are road games given the hordes of Orange that traditionally fill the Garden.
Yet again - lawyered.
Summary
JTIII era
Under JT III, prior to this year, we were 3-0 at home (including a 15 point victory and a 14 point victory). We were 0-4 at Cuse (including two OT losses, a 7 point loss, and a 14 point loss). Also note that the 14-point loss at Cuse was the team's only month over a 2 1/2 month stretch between a loss at Pitt on 1/13 and loss to Ohio State in the Final Four on 3/31. We also were 0-1 at the Garden (a 1 point differential game).
W-L record aside, Syracuse has not "dominated" the series from a point differential standpoint. In DC, I think, you could argue that they have LESS expectation to win than we do at Cuse -- whereas we've taken them to OT twice, they've only taken us to OT once at Verizon, and lost the other two times by double digits. The only neutral court game was a 1 point battle royale.
2004-2005 L (away) (OT) 78-73 (Cuse #7)
2005-2006 W (home) 68-53 L (BET) 58-57
2006-2007 L (away) 72-58
2007-2008 W (home) (OT) 64-62 L (away) 77-70
2008-2009 W (home) 88-74 (Cuse #8) L (away) (OT) 98-94 (Cuse #23)
Esherick Era
Under the Esherick Era, the Hoyas were 2-2 at home, including 11 point and 15 point victories, 1 OT loss, and 1 3 point loss). They were 3-1 at the Dome. Also, they were 1-1 at the BET (4-pt win and 5-pt loss).
1999-2000 L (away) 67-52 (Cuse #13) W (BET) 76-72 (Cuse #12)
2000-2001 L (away) 70-63 W (home) 72-61
2001-2002 W (home) 75-60 (Cuse #14) W (away) 75-69
2002-2003 L (away) 93-80 (Cuse #19) L (home) (OT) 93-84 (Cuse #15) L (BET) 74-69 (Cuse #11)
2003-2004 L (home) 57-54 (Cuse #24)
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Feb 21, 2010 15:08:12 GMT -5
Please, tables, stop trying to confuse us all with facts, now.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 21, 2010 15:47:20 GMT -5
The real problem is...... the SU fans showing up because they know they are going to win. Do you think they run to Hartford to watch them play Yukon? Yes. Syracuse fans show up everywhere. Check out the crowd shots in the only Cuse-related video I actually enjoy watching: . You could go down a list of games where it looks like this. But you'll say, they show up at the RAC because they know they are going to win! (If only it were that simple, am I right Hoya fans? ) You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with the psychology (btw why do we all turn into behavioral psychologists when the team loses consecutive games?) of whether SU fans think they'll win a game. They go because..........wait for the amazing conclusion here............... there are tickets available. Off the top of my head, the gold standard for teams with a national following that can fill arenas anywhere would probably be Kentucky and Duke. Immediately below that are a tier of schools where any conference game at a venue with available seating could be taken over, and NCAA games will feel like home games almost all the time. Cuse is in that list, along with schools like Kansas, UNC, etc. Focus on that "available seating" part. What's interested me in these discussions is that everyone focuses almost exclusively on the SU fans in the 100 level. This is understandable--those tickets were purchased on the secondary market from GU fans (traitorous) or ticket brokers (an issue that doesn't get nearly the attention it should). There were also a number of unfortunate ugly incidents between SU and GU fans. The 100 level is the most visible problem here, but for me another problem merits as much attention. The 400 level was what--80/90 percent SU fans? They didn't buy those tickets off Stubhub, they bought them off Ticketmaster like any normal fan can do. The biggest difference between the Verizon Center and certain other Big East venues is that GU does not have the base of season ticket holders and local fans to fill the VC before opposing fans get a crack at tickets through normal public market channels. I can tell you the reason SU fans didn't run to Morgantown in as great of numbers this year wasn't b/c they didn't know they were going to win--they DID win and had every right to think they would, as SU is a good team. It's because West Virginia has a medium-large arena, but (1) a very good season ticket base and local fan base; (2) a ticket office with the means and willingness to make it hard for opposing fans to get tickets (we've been over these strategies many times before). These elements apply in some form or another for the harder BE venues to crack--to also include the PEC, Carrier Dome, Gampel Pavilion, and the Pavilion at Nova. Long story short: has nothing to do with fan psychology. SU fans show up at Verizon b/c there are a lot of them in the area and it's easy to get tickets. Simple as that. If anything, maybe try putting GU fans and the Athletic Dept on the couch.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,618
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 21, 2010 20:15:53 GMT -5
FLHoya nails it.
Mirror imaging works well here: as a Georgetown fan living somewhere in proximity to the Northeast Corridor, what road games are you going to go to?
For the folks in the northern part of the Corridor, Providence and Hartford are both attractive options because Provy can't fill the Dunk and the XL Center seats 16,300 - big enough that you can usually buy publicly available tickets, albeit in the 400s, as well as having many StubHub options. UConn at Gampel? That's a different story - much more difficult, even though the teams are the same and the geographic proximity is pretty close.
In the central Corridor, St. John's at MSG is the easiest ticket on the planet, followed closely by the 18,500-seat Prudential Center for Seton Hall (the downside of having to go to Newark seems to keep GU road attendance lower than it could/should be). Seton Hall at the Meadowlands (Continental Airlines/Izod Center) was also an easy ticket. But St. John's at 6,000-seat Carnesecca? You can get tickets for you and a friend or loved one, but not the kind of "Party of 25" packages you can get at MSG.
The RAC holds 8,000, and Georgetown will draw more of their faithful than many Big East teams, but it's not terribly difficult to get your hands on tickets, which is why GU@RU often becomes a Georgetown Club of Northern New Jersey reunion.
Nova @ Wachovia? You won't have a ton of options, since GU is a big draw for the locals, but you'll get what you need, even if its in the 400s. At the Pavillion? Good f'ing luck.
The Petersen Events Center seats 12.5k, but you're pretty much limited to StubHub. If you go on the Ticketmaster website for Big East basketball, the Pitt button is shaded out with a "Sold Out" label. Ergo, any visiting fans are going to be few and far between.
Morgantown is similar - it's a little bit of a pain to get to, and you're going to have a very difficult time getting more than a few tickets. How the HHC got that allotment two years ago, I'm still not sure, but it was at the very top of the arena, and it was the only group of Hoya fans I saw there.
I'm willing to bet that this experience is the roughly the same for all of the fan bases that have strong representation along the Corridor (this includes Notre Dame and, to some extent, Cincinnati and Louisville).
Now, compare all those arenas above to Verizon. It seats about 1,500 less than Wachovia, but there's a much lower likelihood of locals buying up most of the 400s, so you can get huge groups up there. Lower bowl tickets have gotten more difficult/expensive to obtain than in yaers past, but are still widely available through StubHub. In other words, no matter your group size or price range, you can probably find accomodation at Verizon.
The Duke game was an exception and an aberration for a number of reasons. The Carrier Dome is a general exception - people just don't want to go up there.
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Post by grokamok on Feb 22, 2010 16:35:46 GMT -5
Tables -- the thing is that we have not performed well versus expectations against SU for a long time. How many of the games listed are ones about which we should truly be proud of the outcome, given our own capabilities? The away game in 2002 is the only one that stands out to me. One could say our 2005 game @su was a good effort, but it's still a loss. Meanwhile, SU beat us @su in '07 & '08 when we were ranked and they were not, and beat us in the '06 BET when we should have crushed them, but, instead, melted down (securing a ticket to the dance for their struggling bubble team and allowing them to advance to win the entire tournament). In each of these losses, there were long or critical portions of the game in which we simply didn't appear to show up. That is inexcusable, and of ultimate frustration to the fan base. We need not only to hold serve, but also start winning against them once in a while when it isn't expected to right the ship.
Fl and Russky make great points.
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