The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jan 22, 2010 10:17:55 GMT -5
Can you honestly say that Republicans are willing to do this, though? Especially given their comments over the summer about planning to just derail any health care bill no matter what? Or on the other side of the same filthy coin, can you honestly say that Democrats are not hell-bent to get "Health Care" in some form or fashion, at any cost, just to fulfill one of the President's many promises? I don't know whose motives are pure and whose aren't. I think that's actually pretty accurate. And going back to the other side of that coin, the GOP is hell-bent to prevent ANYTHING called health care reform from passing precisely because it's one of the President's biggest priorities. I still maintain that if the Dems came out with a one line bill that said "Republicans are awesome" and called it "Health Care Reform," the Republicans would oppose it. Bipartisan compromise is a nice idea. But both parties have to be willing to do it. I think the Democrats are willing to compromise. More accurately, I think they're desperate enough to bend over backwards for any extra votes they can get. Look at what Baucus did to his bill just to get 1 GOP vote (Snowe). He gutted the entire damn thing. Look at how Reid ripped out the meat of his own bill just to get one vote (Lieberman). Now imagine if 5 or so GOP Senators came forward with a list of demands, AND (this is the important part) a promise to vote for the bill if those demands were met. Reid would grab the nearest red pen and do exactly what they said, all while kneeling before them and calling them master. A few GOP senators are offering suggestions (like tort reform and competition across state lines), but all indications are that they would still vote against the bill even if their changes were made. That's not compromise.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 22, 2010 10:23:51 GMT -5
Or on the other side of the same filthy coin, can you honestly say that Democrats are not hell-bent to get "Health Care" in some form or fashion, at any cost, just to fulfill one of the President's many promises? I don't know whose motives are pure and whose aren't. I think that's actually pretty accurate. And going back to the other side of that coin, the GOP is hell-bent to prevent ANYTHING called health care reform from passing precisely because it's one of the President's biggest priorities. I still maintain that if the Dems came out with a one line bill that said "Republicans are awesome" and called it "Health Care Reform," the Republicans would oppose it. Bipartisan compromise is a nice idea. But both parties have to be willing to do it. I think the Democrats are willing to compromise. More accurately, I think they're desperate enough to bend over backwards for any extra votes they can get. Look at what Baucus did to his bill just to get 1 GOP vote (Snowe). He gutted the entire damn thing. Look at how Reid ripped out the meat of his own bill just to get one vote (Lieberman). Now imagine if 5 or so GOP Senators came forward with a list of demands, AND (this is the important part) a promise to vote for the bill if those demands were met. Reid would grab the nearest red pen and do exactly what they said, all while kneeling before them and calling them master. A few GOP senators are offering suggestions (like tort reform and competition across state lines), but all indications are that they would still vote against the bill even if their changes were made. That's not compromise. What you are doing is trying to get the Republicans to join forces to make the current health care bills acceptable to them. What the Republicans want to do is to tear up this monstrocity and start from scratch to jointly draft a bill they can support. The Republicans want health care reform but not in the form the Democrats are pursuing.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 22, 2010 10:39:44 GMT -5
What you are doing is trying to get the Republicans to join forces to make the current health care bills acceptable to them. What the Republicans want to do is to tear up this monstrocity and start from scratch to jointly draft a bill they can support. The Republicans want health care reform but not in the form the Democrats are pursuing. No, they are desperate for the Democrats to start from scratch, put together something that helps no one, and that Republicans will end up opposing on some crazy reason like "death panels" again. Democrats will waste months doing so, accomplish nothing, and go into the midterms looking like they can't govern and that they have no balls. The right move for Democrats would be to pass the damn Senate bill and fix it in reconciliation. I'm guessing that they screw everything up, try to get Republicans to agree to something, and Lucy->football->Charlie Brown happens all over again. Republicans are not going to give Obama a win on this one at any cost. Tort reform is not more valuable to them than regaining control of one of the houses.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 22, 2010 10:44:51 GMT -5
What you are doing is trying to get the Republicans to join forces to make the current health care bills acceptable to them. What the Republicans want to do is to tear up this monstrocity and start from scratch to jointly draft a bill they can support. The Republicans want health care reform but not in the form the Democrats are pursuing. No, they are desperate for the Democrats to start from scratch, put together something that helps no one, and that Republicans will end up opposing on some crazy reason like "death panels" again. Democrats will waste months doing so, accomplish nothing, and go into the midterms looking like they can't govern and that they have no balls. The right move for Democrats would be to pass the damn Senate bill and fix it in reconciliation. I'm guessing that they screw everything up, try to get Republicans to agree to something, and Lucy->football->Charlie Brown happens all over again. You appear unwilling to entertain the idea that the Republican motive might be just as pure as the Democrat motive. If Republican Senators and/or House members believe the entire concept of sweeping Health Care Reform is a disaster waiting to befall the nation, should they go along just be collegial? Remember, I don't know if they think that, but it is possible, right? Or, should we simply believe Democrat=Pure motive; Republican=obstruction?
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 22, 2010 10:46:56 GMT -5
You appear unwilling to entertain the idea that the Republican motive might be just as pure as the Democrat motive Oh, I'll flat out say it isn't.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 22, 2010 10:50:54 GMT -5
You appear unwilling to entertain the idea that the Republican motive might be just as pure as the Democrat motive Oh, I'll flat out say it isn't. At least you admit the openness of your mind. Good for you.
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