With friends like these...

[Elvado]

Our President has now been described as follows:

1. "clean and articulate" (as if that were a surprise)

2. "light-skinned" "with no negro dialect unless he wants one"

3. "Two years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee"

Which God-awful Republican bigots were behind those statements you might ask?

1. Biden
2. Reid
3. Clinton

The lack of political correctness of the left apparently knows no bounds. How can these racists be permitted to go on without sanction?

What in the name of Trent Lott is going on? Will no Democrat stand up to these bigots?

[ScreamingHoya]

I propose an automatic clutter button for every thread that Elvado starts.

[Elvado]

Jan 11, 2010 13:49:02 GMT -5 ScreamingHoya said:

I propose an automatic clutter button for every thread that Elvado starts.

Good idea. God forbid this topic be discussed on a chat board.

[Boz]

Don't forget Rod Blagojevich.

That guy's just the gift that keeps on giving. Be proud, Illini! (Illinoisans? Sorry, I'm not sure what the right term is.)

[ScreamingHoya]

Elvado- clutter, on this board, refers to the same thing being discussed ad nauseam. The 800 threads you've started on "Barry O" and the "racist democrats" fit the mold.

[Boz]

Jan 11, 2010 14:00:55 GMT -5 ScreamingHoya said:

Elvado- clutter, on this board, refers to the same thing being discussed ad nauseam. The 800 threads you've started on "Barry O" and the "racist democrats" fit the mold.

Do you honestly claim that if Sarah Palin or Mitch McConnell had come out this weekend and said these things that there would not have been a thread started about this from one of our more left-leaning contributors??

[jerseyhoya34]

I'm highly disappointed in Majority Leader Reid and expect him to be replaced as Majority Leader even if the Democrats hold serve in November.* Those kinds of comments have no place in our politics even if they perhaps reflect some truth (unlike the Lott endorsement during the Thurmond birthday celebration). I'm glad Reid apologized, which, frankly, you do not see often enough for these kinds of things, but that is not an excuse. Hopefully we can look forward to additional attention to these issues on both sides of the aisle and an end to all attempts to "otherize" Obama.

*I'm not sure Republicans will want this either if Dick Durbin or Chuck Schumer ends up at the helm.

[Elvado]

Jan 11, 2010 14:00:55 GMT -5 ScreamingHoya said:

Elvado- clutter, on this board, refers to the same thing being discussed ad nauseam. The 800 threads you've started on "Barry O" and the "racist democrats" fit the mold.

Other than mentioning Senator Byrd's time as a Klansman, please point me to my discussionS (800?) of racist Democrats.

I will cop to pointing out the myriad failures of Mr. Obama, but a little accuracy in your criticism would be appreciated.

[Boz]

I actually think Bill Clinton's comments were the worst, as they were clearly mean-spirited and intentionally so.

Harry Reid is an idiot (an opinion I have held long prior to this incident), but I don't think he MEANT to be an idiot. There is definitely an underlying racial insensitivity in his thought process. There are a lot of people like that, on the left and on the right, though definitely a different standard of outrage applied -- not by you Ambassador, but by many -- depending on that political spectrum.

(Likewise, I don't think race was anywhere near Trent Lott's brain when he told Strom Thurmond that the country would've been better off if he'd been elected President. I think he was trying to say something nice to a 100-year old man and he f-ed it up badly.)

I'm not excusing Reid, but I'm just saying I don't believe he was thinking when he made these remarks. They reveal an underlying problem, but not a malice.

In Clinton's case and Blagojevich's case, I definitely think there was a degree of malice.

[bubbrubbhoya]

I love how the liberal response to this takes one of three forms:

1. Attack the messenger, say nothing about the message (see ScreamingHoya, above, and any number of HoyaTalk posters who refuse to debate on a board that was once their personal playground of righteous indignance).

2. Cop the "I'm just being objective and never criticized someone of the other party for doing this" excuse (see Barbara Boxer...who lied).

3. Say something more racist that also won't be called out. (Tim Kaine: "It was all in the context of saying positive things about Senator Obama." Why isn't this quotation a big deal yet? He is calling "light skin" a positive when compared to "dark skin," etc... Are you kidding me!?!)

The complicity of the press in allowing this type of hypocrisy is despicable.

[jerseyhoya34]

Boz hits the nail there. I have been consistently after Bill Clinton who race-baited at least through the primary. It was a disgusting display that voters did not appreciate IMO just as some might not appreciate the otherization that followed in the general election.

I also appreciate that some choices of words may be generational or socially reinforced (not as an excuse, but as a issue for analysis). The "clean and articulate" remark was not well considered but may fit in this category. Biden took a hit for it from Democrats and deservedly so, unlike what Elvado suggests. Clinton's legacy was certainly damaged, and he received some strong rebukes during the primary/caucus season, including from Ted Kennedy. What other punishment was necessary/appropriate there? Asking him to resign from his foundation? The voters certainly held his wife accountable.

[Elvado]

Jan 11, 2010 14:24:40 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Clinton's legacy was certainly damaged, and he received some strong rebukes during the primary/caucus season, including from Ted Kennedy.

Talk about rock-bottom. Getting rebuked by Ted Kennedy. What next? Driving lessons?

[jerseyhoya34]

Jan 11, 2010 14:20:21 GMT -5 bubbrubbhoya said:

I love how the liberal response to this takes one of three forms:

1. Attack the messenger, say nothing about the message (see ScreamingHoya, above, and any number of HoyaTalk posters who refuse to debate on a board that was once their personal playground of righteous indignance).

2. Cop the "I'm just being objective and never criticized someone of the other party for doing this" excuse (see Barbara Boxer...who lied).

3. Say something more racist that also won't be called out. (Tim Kaine: "It was all in the context of saying positive things about Senator Obama." Why isn't this quotation a big deal yet? He is calling "light skin" a positive when compared to "dark skin," etc... Are you kidding me!?!)

The complicity of the press in allowing this type of hypocrisy is despicable.

In all honesty, the why question may be answered by something as silly as not having an audio or video of the quotation. That George Allen video from the campaign (along with the intelligence-insulting response of "he didn't know what it meant") singlehandedly did him in. No video - you can have more dispute between pro-Allen and anti-Allen about the malice/intent issues, and voters would generally fall in along partisan lines. With Reid, the best that could be done is you end up with the quote buried in a "this is what one newspaper said" kind of ad that are generally viewed as hit pieces/ads in any event.

[jerseyhoya34]

Jan 11, 2010 14:27:44 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Jan 11, 2010 14:24:40 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Clinton's legacy was certainly damaged, and he received some strong rebukes during the primary/caucus season, including from Ted Kennedy.

Talk about rock-bottom. Getting rebuked by Ted Kennedy. What next? Driving lessons?

Vado, I generally think you can be funny (even as a Democrat), but the driving joke and so forth may have run its course, particularly now that Senator Kennedy is dead. I look forward to some newer material - maybe something on Sen. Craig's stall habits.

[Elvado]

Jan 11, 2010 14:32:35 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Jan 11, 2010 14:27:44 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Talk about rock-bottom. Getting rebuked by Ted Kennedy. What next? Driving lessons?

Vado, I generally think you can be funny (even as a Democrat), but the driving joke and so forth may have run its course, particularly now that Senator Kennedy is dead. I look forward to some newer material - maybe something on Sen. Craig's stall habits.

Point taken. In my own defense, when the Democrats stop pointing to Ted's legacy as an impetus to pass the monstrosity they call "Health Care" I'll stop talking about his driving. Last I checked, no one is proposing a bathroom privacy law to honor Sen. Craig's career and I don't think he ever left anyone to drown in a stall.

[TC]

You're talking to a guy who thinks Stripes quotes are timely.

[strummer8526]

I don't know the whole context. But my understanding is that Reid was saying that Obama had a chance to get elected because he is light-skinned and speaks well. The phrase "negro dialect" is absurd and makes him sound like we're living in 1966. That wording is troubling and as dumb sounding as it is insensitive.

But honestly, I'm not troubled at all by the message (as I understand it): that this country is not in a place where it would elect a dark-skinned black man with lesser ability to speak in a way that appeals to white people. That opinion is not racist. That statement is just pointing out that our country is too racist to accept anyone "blacker" than Obama. And I think that's true.

And sure, we can all pretend we're offended by the notion that most white people speak differently than most black people. But I think most blacks would admit that there are some differences. It's not like every black person speaks one way and every white person speaks another, but yes, it is true that if you hear a person speak for long enough, you can probably make a good guess whether he/she is white or black, the same as you could guess whether he/she is from Brooklyn, Tennessee, or Canada. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But I agree with the statement that many people in this country would not elect someone who sounds "too black."

Again, this all depends on the context. But if he was just pointing out one of the sad flaws in this country—its propensity towards lighter skinned black men who talk in a way appealing to white people—then I don't see how you can say he's wrong.

It's ironic that we want honest politicians, but then jump all over truthful statements because they are about race, but do not fit in the happy PC race bubble that everyone likes to live in. Where is Ellie Gunderson on this issue?

[Elvado]

Jan 11, 2010 14:39:44 GMT -5 TC said:

You're talking to a guy who thinks Stripes quotes are timely.

Not timely, Junior. Timeless.

[SSHoya]

Definition of a gaffe in Washington, DC: When you accidentally speak the truth. As inelegant as Reid was in his statements, I think strummer85 is correct.

Ruth Marcus's view is not a bad one: (Elvado, I apologize in advance for quoting someone from the Washington Post not named Krauthammer).


voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/01/harry_reids_ill-advised_accura.html#more

[Boz]

Jan 11, 2010 14:42:48 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

but yes, it is true that if you hear a person speak for long enough, you can probably make a good guess whether he/she is white or black

I call b---s--- on anyone who tells me that they knew Rick Astley was a redheaded white guy -- from England no less -- when they first heard him sing.

;D