the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jan 9, 2010 19:45:36 GMT -5
He is the 2nd coming of Othella Harrington.
Good kid. Great poise. But not a franchise player in the making type NBA potential.
He'll go to the NBA, but, ultimately
Greg is a 4-year college basketball player.
To flat-out dominate a game? Wright and Freeman have that ability? But Greg? Thats not his style. His style of play is effective, but not dominate to the point where he takes over a game.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 9, 2010 20:29:44 GMT -5
He dominated the butler game.
Someone please tell me i'm not crazy. greg scores a lot off of post moves. And going to the free throw line off of post moves is having a post game. I'll watch the game again, but I contend that over his career he's proven he scores a lot of points starting off with the ball in the low post and his back to the basket.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 9, 2010 20:33:22 GMT -5
He dominated the butler game. Someone please tell me i'm not crazy. greg scores a lot off of post moves. And going to the free throw line off of post moves is having a post game. I'll watch the game again, but I contend that over his career he's proven he scores a lot of points starting off with the ball in the low post and his back to the basket. you're not crazy. the butler game was the first thing that came to my mind after reading way's dog doo-doo.
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Buckets on Jan 9, 2010 20:41:28 GMT -5
Greg has played like this all year... slow first half.. agression in the 2nd... I wonder if it has to do with not wanting to foul out. I think this is a big part of it. Monroe had a decent performance, but I have one major criticism. This was almost our third loss due at least in part to an offensive rebound in the final minute. Monroe was on Edwards who took him out to about the three-point line and as Dyson was driving, Greg just jogged behind him instead of trying to get between him and the basket. Edwards got the rebound and kicked to Walker who fortunately missed a wide open three. Rebounding in crunch time needs to improve and Greg has to be the driving force.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Jan 10, 2010 1:00:24 GMT -5
Monroe has to play with more urgency. We have to remember as fans we're all motivated by wanting the Hoyas to win--and everyone to play well, etc......but some kids are motivated by different things--and I'm NOT saying Greg Monroe is--but no matter how you shape it--he's got to get a fire lit under him to be more consistent and bring an urgency to the game EVERY game. If he doesn't-he won't achieve his individual goal or his team goal.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 10, 2010 8:31:10 GMT -5
people need to learn to criticize what's currently happening or a single game's worth of play with out criticizing the player completely. Say Greg is sucking this half and isn't hustling not Greg sucks and is lazy. Those two things are different. One is perfectly acceptable the other isn't. EXCELLENT POINT and one posters need to keep in mind when they post about player's performance. Context is everything and it's not that difficult to frame your posts in context rather than making blanket negative statements that call into question a student athlete's character. Posters are again asked to please keep that in mind going forward. Reactionary in-game vitriol is often better left until after the game when the poster has a chance to come to his or her senses. Regardless of what you think of college athletics these are students trying their best and representing their school. They deserve a baseline level of respect for that.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Jan 11, 2010 0:21:55 GMT -5
Just rewatched the second half. For all the talk about Austin's offense (which is incredible to rewatch) what I really noticed the second time around was how many times Monroe made a huge play on the defensive end during the run. In the span of about 10 minutes Monroe gets three blocks, a couple steals, snags every key defensive rebound, and even dives out of bounds to save a ball and spark a fast break. He is an absolute menace on the defensive end. From about the 18 minute mark on, there are no easy UConn baskets, mainly because of Monroe. I highly recommend watching it again.
To people's point that he needs to get more aggressive, I actually came away from watching the game a second time with the realization that I'd be happy with him not being more aggressive offensively as long as he brings that defensive intensity all game long.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 11, 2010 0:24:45 GMT -5
I also just rewatched the second half, and had basically the same conclusions.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 11, 2010 0:27:10 GMT -5
And if you guys reread this thread, everyone almost to a man said that the second half was not the question. It was the first half that was the question.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jan 11, 2010 0:34:51 GMT -5
And if you guys reread this thread, everyone almost to a man said that the second half was not the question. It was the first half that was the question. I didn't write my post with the first half-second half Jekyll-Hyde split in mind. That subject doesn't really interest me too much. My point was that for all the talk about intensity and passion that people keep throwing out there - particularly in the media- I would rather have more consistent defensive intensity out of Monroe than offensive intensity out of Monroe.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 11, 2010 0:35:55 GMT -5
I can agree with that. He was big in the second half on that end. He's a lot like Tim Duncan, and Duncan's a nightmare on defense.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Jan 11, 2010 10:30:28 GMT -5
Folks tend to look only at Greg's O, when his skills are equal on D. He appeared to be un-emotional in the first half and a step slow. In the second half he was really into the game. Austin got hot and when someone's hot you keep going to them. Don't forget Jason, his D was outstanding, which also helped the comeback. That was the bestd defensive half of the season for the whole team. Defense wins championships
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 11, 2010 10:38:12 GMT -5
This whole 1st half second half debate is kind of pointless. Monroe, like almost every CBB player on every team in the country, has inconsistent focus during stretches. You see this with almost any player and Monroe really is no worse than most when it comes to putting two halves or 30 minutes of complete basketball together. The difference between this year and last is obivous to anyone who is watching. Monroe has indeed stepped up his game and will continue to do so.
I also strongly agree with all the comments about his defensive abilities and the importance of this to the team's chances to win.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jan 11, 2010 12:13:49 GMT -5
All right, Chris and Austin have both had their 30+ point games. Greg, are you next? Do you have it in you?
Honestly, I think he has been playing well. He has really stepped up the rebounding. He remains a solid passer. He is getting 10+ shots a game, with the exception of the Marquette game. He was also pivotal for us down the stretch vs. UConn.
He could be a little more physical and aggressive at times, and his FT% should be higher, but I think the one thing he needs to work on is his touch around the rim. While he's getting more shots, his shooting percentage is down because he is having a tough time finishing. I think it's a correctable problem, and if he can fix that, I think he will be unstoppable.
Despite all the criticism that he gets here, because of the high expectations we have for him, I think he has been playing very well. I really think he will start making those bunnies around the rim, and when he does, it will be scary how good he will be.
EDIT: He also shows more emotion after big plays than people give him credit for.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 11, 2010 18:14:24 GMT -5
I think he gets it if he makes the "bunnies" and 80% from FT. He needs to raise that 60%.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 11, 2010 18:15:56 GMT -5
I figured this thread would be all over the place considering the emotional swings that were apparent on Saturday afternoon's comeback win. Don't like to see posters throwing Greg under the bus so much, but it is undeniable that Greg's list of "things he needs to work on" is beginning to outweigh the list of "reasons why this guy is an NBA lottery pick" Let's leave it at that and hope theres a slight possibility that we have Chris Greg and Austin back together next year with some actual depth behind them. I'm sure CW and Awesome Freeman (hope that nickname sticks) are going to have an off-nights, hopefully of the double-double variety, but I'm pleased to see the team chemistry and the picking eachother up that we saw against UConn.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 11, 2010 19:52:09 GMT -5
This was not just about Freeman being hot. Monroe and Wright are good players but neither of them could have done what Freeman did against a high quality opponent. Freeman hit threes when they gave him room and he drove and finished when they came out on him. He took over the game offensively and they couldn't stop him. He made great decisions with the ball. Wright drove and got his shots blocked repeatedly. Monroe does not have the scoring versatility to do what Freeman did. The lesson from this game needs to be to that Freeman should be the go-to guy.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2010 20:06:04 GMT -5
Freeman was definitely hot, but he also abused Dyson -- known as a pretty good defensive guard -- with his quickness and strength.
When Dyson couldn't hold him, Calhoun put 6'8" Stanley Robinson on him and it helped that Austin could shoot over him -- Stanley didn't want to press outside the three point line. But it is still a huge compliment that Dyson couldn't keep him away from the rim.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 11, 2010 21:05:39 GMT -5
The thing about Austin is this:
He's so strong that he creates space going to the rim, sort of like a fullback. But he's so athletic that when he gets there, he's a tremendous finisher. That kind of combination is very rare. He's sort of like JR Rider in that regard.
Plus with his jumper and mid range game, he's almost the complete offensive player.
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Post by upstatehoya on Jan 12, 2010 1:44:35 GMT -5
Long-time lurker, figured I'd throw my hat in the ring here, so to speak.
There is a list of things that Greg Monroe can do very well, including but not limited to pretty excellent post defense and stretching the other guys' defense from the high post. Opposing teams will usually play off him at the elbow and make him put it on the deck against a guard to get the rim, where there's a big waiting for him. This would normally leave a cutter or a shooter open for a quick pass, and when the other guys on the team play their roles in the offense, he's pretty good about swinging the rock around to them.
He does some other things well for his size: he's very quick on his feet and it helps him get good position for offensive rebounds, and he's got a decent handle for someone nearly seven feet tall. This is where he runs into problems, however, because he's missing a couple things:
1) Muscle Mass. The kid's flat-out not strong enough to bang in the blocks in this league, let alone the NBA. He should get Austin's workout regimen from the summer of 2008 and follow it like holy writ: 10-15 pounds of muscle and Greg would be an absolute beast. Graceful and elegant in the basketball sense, with Harangody's stats. That's a top-5 draft pick, folks, but it's going to take a lot of work that frankly should've been well underway by this point. It's not like it was beyond anyone's capacity for prognostication that he'd need to get bigger to play down low in the Big East. Thus, when he gets into position with an offensive rebound, or good position off some post moves, he's just not strong enough to finish, hence all the missed bunnies. It's fixable, but it's frustrating that he's let it become such a noticeable problem.
2) His handle's good, but relative to his size. He's not the kind of guy who can dribble through two guards/SFs and then hit a pull-up J instead of bowling over the waiting big and committing a killer offensive foul. The handle part is most useful to him if he's pulling Roy's favorite move, drawing a big (and slower) defender out to the line, then blowing past him into an empty lane for a high-percentage lay-in or dunk. Obviously the ability to finish strong comes into play here, but if he was constantly blowing by bigs at the line, with his court vision and the inevitable collapsing defenses, he could dish the rock and have a field-day in the assist column. Alas.
3) The easiest solution to the above problems, and thus the least defensible weakness -- a reliable mid-range shot like Ewing used to straight-up murder centers when he was with the Knicks in the early-mid 90s. Just a reliable 10-15 footer is all he'd need. Jeff had one and it used to drive opposing defenses crazy, and we all spent 2 years cheering Roy for developing one -- it's one of the many reasons he was able to abuse guys like Thabeet who had to anchor an interior defense. Stretch the D like that (gotta put a big guy on him or he'll just rain jumpers on some long-armed converted guard) and you (a) bring the defender close enough to him that he can use his handle to blow by and create a drive, and (b) allow Julian some isolation in the post where he can use those moves he's been developing. The sad part of this weakness is that it's entirely correctable -- you can't teach "court vision" or leadership, but developing a 10-15 foot jumper is just hours in the gym. By all accounts he's an excellent kid who is a great Hoya, so it's surprising and frustrating that this rather obvious gap in his game wasn't addressed already.
As a side note, the fact that opponents seem to get O-rebounds "off" Greg in late-game situations appears, at least to me, to be a result more of team-wide unwillingness to box out (Benimon excepted) than of some singular defect in Greg's game. He should be boxing out, but so should everyone else, and he's not conspicuous in this failing, as it were.
I realize this is overlong, so I'll close with one request: I've been reading these boards for several years now, and I think it's somewhat disturbing that criticism and the like about particular players -- whether general critiques or reactions to in-game performance -- are treated like smears of that player's character (or worse, a full abjuration of true Hoya fandom). I think that's actually very seldom the case, and if anything is a nice thing to see (in controlled doses). We care enough about the program to demand perfection and excellence: while we can be consoled in defeat by promising moral victories, and in the exultation of victory we can still find areas that need improvement, the point is that we want the team to achieve to the maximum extent possible. Other posters might disagree with statements made, but imputing malign motives seems a bit harsh and unwarranted.
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