JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Jan 5, 2010 9:19:07 GMT -5
Complaining about Vitale is cliche at this point. There's much worse out there. There's a lot of worse analysts on ESPN who say far more inane things but we give them a pass because they are a little more quiet about it. There's even more who have made some truly craptastic decisions in their past while Vitale has pretty much always been a great an honest promoter of the game. Nobody has bad stories about Vitale for a reason. I figure if you've been involved in the game for as long as he has and the worst criticisms you've received are that you like Duke/ACC too much and you get *too* excited during the games, you're doing pretty damn well and you deserve some respect. Would folks prefer Billy Packer being negative all the time? People like Gotdweeb trying to make self-important controversial statements all the time? The bland curmudgeons who permeate ESPN+, BE Network, Big 10 Network, MASN, etc.?
I think part of his recent annoyance is that he's ASKED to talk about other things. If you look at the games now versus their production 20 years ago, there's a lot less going on your television. There aren't as many ads in or outside the game coverage, nor as many highlight reels or opportunities to talk about things outside the game at hand. For all the reasons why we say he's great because he makes a game seem important, no doubt ESPN realizes this and gives him talking points about other teams, games, players, coaches, etc.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 5, 2010 9:50:26 GMT -5
I'm glad I'll be there so I don't have to listen to him.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Jan 5, 2010 10:07:10 GMT -5
Complaining about Vitale is cliche at this point. There's much worse out there. There's a lot of worse analysts on ESPN who say far more inane things but we give them a pass because they are a little more quiet about it. There's even more who have made some truly craptastic decisions in their past while Vitale has pretty much always been a great an honest promoter of the game. Nobody has bad stories about Vitale for a reason. I figure if you've been involved in the game for as long as he has and the worst criticisms you've received are that you like Duke/ACC too much and you get *too* excited during the games, you're doing pretty damn well and you deserve some respect. Would folks prefer Billy Packer being negative all the time? People like Gotdweeb trying to make self-important controversial statements all the time? The bland curmudgeons who permeate ESPN+, BE Network, Big 10 Network, MASN, etc.? I think part of his recent annoyance is that he's ASKED to talk about other things. If you look at the games now versus their production 20 years ago, there's a lot less going on your television. There aren't as many ads in or outside the game coverage, nor as many highlight reels or opportunities to talk about things outside the game at hand. For all the reasons why we say he's great because he makes a game seem important, no doubt ESPN realizes this and gives him talking points about other teams, games, players, coaches, etc. This is very well put. While I personally prefer the Bilas/Rafferty team or Len Elmore (I've also enjoyed what Bobby Knight is bringing to the table), you can do far worse than Vitale.
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Post by stafford72 on Jan 5, 2010 10:25:39 GMT -5
I would prefer Len Elmore or especially Jay Bilas for their spot on analysis. Dick Vitale does provide the stamp of "big game" to the contest. His knowledge of past teams and players is also sometimes valuable in making comparisons. He has become somewhat of a caricature of himself, but his contributions to the game cannot be ignored. If you go back long eonough to remember him when he just started out on ESPN, you can appreciate the effort and admire his success. Billy Packer, Al McGuire, and Dicky V are very much responsible for helping make college basketball and March Madness successful. The fact that no one disputes his "nice guy" persona and his unabashed delight in talking hoops to anyone fortunate enough to meet him, not to mitigate his charitable contributions, is more than enough for me to cut him some slack.
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Post by NorthCarolinaHOYA on Jan 5, 2010 10:53:56 GMT -5
I will never forget when he had to stand on his head after Austin Peay upset Illinois in the tournament i think it was 1987 ahahahahah Classic
Dipsy Doo Dunkaroo hahahahah
I also remember when AI was at GTown and he screamed ARE YOU KIDDING ME ARE YOU KIDDING ME this kid could have went straight to the PROS
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 5, 2010 12:43:49 GMT -5
The fact that no one disputes his "nice guy" persona and his unabashed delight in talking hoops to anyone fortunate enough to meet him, not to mitigate his charitable contributions, is more than enough for me to cut him some slack. He along with his "lifemate" Coach Krysnewski are also responsible for foisting off on the American public, the galling myth that Jim Valvano was anything but a sleazy two-bit hustler who was Calipari before there was Calipari.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2010 12:58:34 GMT -5
What's the over/under on number of Duke references? Actually, Vitale was a great promoter of the college game back when he used to talk about some strategy and some actual insight - but it has been many years since he gave himself over to the cartoon character that he has become.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 5, 2010 13:42:42 GMT -5
I dislike any game announcer who spends inordinate amounts of time talking about things not related to the actual game and Vitale fits this description. I do, however, like to listen to him talk college basketball when he's not doing a game.
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Post by NorthCarolinaHOYA on Jan 5, 2010 14:05:08 GMT -5
Elvado what you said is so TRUE preach my friend!
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Jan 5, 2010 15:22:17 GMT -5
He along with his "lifemate" Coach Krysnewski are also responsible for foisting off on the American public, the galling myth that Jim Valvano was anything but a sleazy two-bit hustler who was Calipari before there was Calipari. This, sadly, is true. Don't give up, Elvado. Don't ever give up.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 5, 2010 15:31:19 GMT -5
This is very well put. While I personally prefer the Bilas/Rafferty team or Len Elmore (I've also enjoyed what Bobby Knight is bringing to the table), you can do far worse than Vitale. A-men - you can do *far* worse than Vitale. Billy Packer is still alive.
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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 5, 2010 15:32:09 GMT -5
disagree there. Vitale may be a bit overbearing at times. But to call him a clown is pretty disrespectful to who and what he has meant to College Basketball over the years. I agree with Daytona -- color guys come in all flavors, and while he's not perfect (who is?) I'd take him over the second-tier guys who say things like "GU needs a basket" when the team is down 15 with two minutes to go.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 5, 2010 15:37:28 GMT -5
The sad truth is that with limited exceptions almost every game would be more enjoyable for me if they used the format NBC tried 30 some odd years ago on a Jets game where they simply broadcast the game sounds. I'd get to hear Father McFadden doing the table announcing and would be spared the inanity brought to the table by the lion's share of announcers.
Plus, it would put a ton of Syracuse grads back behind the fry counter where they belong.
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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 5, 2010 15:47:56 GMT -5
The sad truth is that with limited exceptions almost every game would be more enjoyable for me if they used the format NBC tried 30 some odd years ago on a Jets game where they simply broadcast the game sounds. I'd get to hear Father McFadden doing the table announcing and would be spared the inanity brought to the table by the lion's share of announcers. Plus, it would put a ton of Syracuse grads back behind the fry counter where they belong. I remember that game -- it was a big deal at the time but I don't know if they ever tried it again. I could see it working better in basketball, where there is more continuous action that speaks for itself. Interesting to see some of the Big East alumni who've made it into the booth -- John Celestand (Seton Hall) did Cinn-Rutgers the other night.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2010 15:48:32 GMT -5
I don't like complete non-broadcasts. They did one a few years ago as well.
But I do can without most color men. I like the PBP -- getting player names and explanations, up to date stats, etc. Aside from a few color guys out there, they are largely annoying.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Jan 5, 2010 15:51:51 GMT -5
The point of the color guy really should be to point out something that the typical viewer won't notice--Bilas does this, and the few times I've seen Bobby Knight he's been very insightful this way. Previously, I always thought Rick Majerus was good at this. It takes a real gym rat--somebody who is just obsessed with inanities of basketball. Not a self-promoting, Gottleib type.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 5, 2010 16:04:21 GMT -5
My ranking of all of the color analysts that ESPN used last season (in-game only, not studio, and not including duties as a sideline reporter): Bill Raftery Jay Bilas Len Elmore Doris Burke Bob Wenzel Jimmy Dykes Hubert Davis Fran Fraschilla Steve Lavin Dick Vitale Bucky Waters Tom Brennan Bob Knight (I love Knight in studio, but he kind of sucks in-game; he'll probably get better though) Adrian Branch Doug Gottlieb Plus these, on whom I have no opinion, since I can't remember any games they did: Mark Adams, Bob Valvano My ranking of ESPN's PBP announcers: Brad Nessler Dan Shulman Brent Musburger Ron Franklin Dave O'Brien Dave Pasch Bob Picozzi Dave Barnett Terry Gannon Bob Wischusen John Saunders Sean McDonough Mike Patrick Plus these, who I again didn't rank because I can't remember games they've called: Joe Tessitore, Eric Collins, Sam Gore, Scott Graham, John Sciambi, Lou Canellis, Rece Davis Here is a list of all the pairings on all networks for 2009-10, if anyone wants to rank them: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_college_basketball_on_television#Current_lineup_.28for_2009-10.29
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2010 16:14:08 GMT -5
I like your top six, but after that I start to disagree. Hubert Davis is just droning noise to me. I actually like Gottlieb as a color guy -- he remembers that he played and forgets his studio persona (which has softened a bit as well).
Lavin and Brennan now belong to the "be nice to everyone school" which is hardly useful.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 5, 2010 16:14:57 GMT -5
My ranking of all of the color analysts that ESPN used last season (in-game only, not studio, and not including duties as a sideline reporter): Bill Raftery Jay Bilas Len Elmore Doris Burke Bob Wenzel Jimmy Dykes Hubert Davis Fran Fraschilla Steve Lavin Dick Vitale Bucky Waters Tom Brennan Bob Knight (I love Knight in studio, but he kind of sucks in-game; he'll probably get better though) Adrian Branch Doug Gottlieb Plus these, on whom I have no opinion, since I can't remember any games they did: Mark Adams, Bob Valvano My ranking of ESPN's PBP announcers: Brad Nessler Dan Shulman Brent Musburger Ron Franklin Dave O'Brien Dave Pasch Bob Picozzi Dave Barnett Terry Gannon Bob Wischusen John Saunders Sean McDonough Mike Patrick Plus these, who I again didn't rank because I can't remember games they've called: Joe Tessitore, Eric Collins, Sam Gore, Scott Graham, John Sciambi, Lou Canellis, Rece Davis Here is a list of all the pairings on all networks for 2009-10, if anyone wants to rank them: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_college_basketball_on_television#Current_lineup_.28for_2009-10.29Well done Boz...mostly agree with you, though I might bump up Fraschilla 1-2 spaces. As for PBP'ers, hasn't Canellis done a few of our games? IIRC, he has been with Raftery at Midnight Madness the past 2 years. I could be wrong though. If he is who I think he is, I'd rank him in the middle somewhere. It is also a hard-fought battle for that bottom wrong with McDonough and Patrick, but I probably agree with your order there too. EDIT: Canellis called our game at Depaul Sunday.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2010 16:20:30 GMT -5
I know Canellis did DePaul, and I think he also did St. John's. Or was it the color guy who was the same?
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