hoyas2006
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Post by hoyas2006 on Dec 22, 2009 18:03:37 GMT -5
can someone please tell me a school that has had more transfers than us in the last 5 years? there aren't many. i can tell you that.
this gets old real quick!
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russodj
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Post by russodj on Dec 22, 2009 18:09:56 GMT -5
Without doing any research I know Duke has had at least 5 in the past 4 years. Boateng went to ASU, Boykin to Cal, Williams to Memphis, King to Villanova, and Cyzs just announced he was transferring the other day. Can't recall if there were any in the 5th year.
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Post by othello on Dec 22, 2009 18:59:04 GMT -5
WOW!
Hoya2006, In less than 10 minutes you were given a prominent school with atleast 5 transfers in the past 5 years.
I bet if you did less time complaining about an issue you know nothing about, and more time reasearching your own baseless claims, you wouldn't have to make up a thread like this and could be off doing something more productive with your time.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 22, 2009 23:08:23 GMT -5
ZINGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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hoyas2006
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Post by hoyas2006 on Dec 23, 2009 6:47:04 GMT -5
great comeback othello...... haha. did you have help with that comeback? that is 1 school out of how many? ? point being.. is there AREN'T MANY as stated in the previous message.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Dec 23, 2009 8:08:28 GMT -5
Florida lost Jai Lucas, Jonathan Mitchell, and Allan Chaney in the last two years to transfers, plus Speights and Calathes early to the pros. Not sure what happened before that.
Fordham has had 5-7 transfers in the last two years alone. Different situation than Florida or GU, team wasn't good, but they lost starters.
This isn't the kind of thing that is easy to find, it isn't like it is tracked anywhere. You almost have to follow a program pretty closely to see it. But I have been struck in reading the college previews by the amount of programs who are affected, and indeed, the amount of contributors from teams like Iowa State, Iowa, New Mexico State, Lousville, etc who choose to leave. My impression is it is pretty widespread these days.
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Post by othello on Dec 23, 2009 8:20:39 GMT -5
How many tranfers has Uconn, or Louisville, or Kentucky, or Florida, or Arizona had? I know Marquette has had several tranfers in the past few years
When you say "there aren't many", are you basing this statement on something (research, prior knowledge, a source) or are you just completely guessing? If your guessing, just say "I have know idea, and I am completely guessing, but . . ."
You'll notice there is no mention on sites like ESPN or cbssportsline of schools like Duke having multiple tranfers over the past few years, but at G-Town it's an epidemic. I think everyone should take a deep breath and relax with the hyperbole.
There are nearly 340 NCAA Division 1 teams. I'm sure there are a lot of schools who have had at least 3 or 4 tranfers over the past few years. Kids want to play, and they will go where they feel they can.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 23, 2009 8:27:42 GMT -5
How can you have a thread about transfers and only mention players who left. I believe we also managed to pick up a player who has surprised quite a few people on this board - Julian Vaughn. Transfers go both ways. You can't talk about one without discussing the other.
Hell, a handful of my best friends at Georgetown transferred in and a sad few eventually transferred out. It's college, it happens.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 23, 2009 8:33:23 GMT -5
This is pretty much the state of the game. Get used to it. What we've seen at GU is players not getting more PT (for whatever reason) looking for more minutes at other schools. Wattad and Nikita knew their minutes were not going to increase that much this year.
I wish Nikita the best. I'm sure he'll go to another school and get more minutes than here... or maybe he'll go back home and play pro ball.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 23, 2009 8:39:36 GMT -5
Oh, can someone tell me the rankings coming out of high school of the Duke transfers? I wouldn't be surpised if they all were top 25 or 50.
I know that aside from Macklin's #20 (I think), transfers Nikita, Rivers and Wattad weren't close.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 23, 2009 8:42:00 GMT -5
It's becoming way more common in decades past, that's for sure. Seems like very few kids are willing to sit on the bench at major programs anymore. I think it's a product of how much money is on the line as far professional careers, both in the US and abroad. Plus it's just a change in mindset among young ball players, many of whom tend to think not starting = bench warmer = scrub, which leads them to try to be the big fish in a small pond.
That said, Hoyas have had 9 in the last 5 years (2005-2009 inclusive), which is significantly greater than Duke's 5. Just about every major school has had at least a few, but 9 is still on the high end.
One school that really seems like they've had a lot is UConn--Ben Eaves, Marcus Johnson, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Kellog, Garrison, Haralson, and I feel like there were a few more. Calhoun is pretty unapologetic about it, tends to bring in a lot of guys every year and if they can't hack it he lets them walk and brings in new ones.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 23, 2009 8:57:39 GMT -5
I agree that higher transfer rates are emblematic of what top echelon college basketball is today - with the best players being essentially 3 year players. In that sense, comparing what happened in the 1970s to 2010 is a bit of apples and oranges. I would be more worried if it was the 'core guys' who were transferring (it has not been, except for Macklin and one can argue about his value) or if there was evidence that the guys transferring out were not succeeding in school (there is evidence to the contrary on that one).
That said, the next time somebody takes a shot a Calhoun for "running players off" or Maryland for having a graduation rate of 8% the "superiority" foundation for that argument (GU graduates 90%+ of their players) has become less solid.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Dec 23, 2009 9:03:55 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, because I know people on this board track this stuff constantly, what are our future mens bball graduation rates looking like (assuming nobody else transfers in/out, and Monroe leaves after this season)?
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Post by villacats on Dec 23, 2009 9:11:15 GMT -5
Bilal Benn, Andrew Ott, Malcolm Grant and Casiem Drummond have transferred out of Villanova in the past 4 years. It's a fact of life among successful hoops programs.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 23, 2009 9:51:03 GMT -5
I think vamos is right, in that I couldn't find any sites that track transfers by school on a year-over-year basis. However, here is a list of all the transfers from just one year. I think it's safe to say that this year was not an aberration & that there is probably a similar volume in many, if not all, years. collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=667122Some are exceptions (i.e. - Indiana, where everyone left the program, for understandable reasons), but I think it's safe to say that every school has some attrition. Here's another thing many schools have in common: go down the list looking at the left column. Tell me how many blue chippers or starters you see there.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Dec 23, 2009 10:09:17 GMT -5
We all would like to graduate 100% of our players. We would all like our guys to be here for 4 years for the experience factor. But we must face the facts about today's players.
If you get a potentially great player (Greg) who can get early NBA $$$, we know it's very unlikely he will be here 4 years and very unlikely they will come back to get a degree during the summers after he leaves. Jeff is a wonderful exception. But even if Jeff finishes 5 years after leaving, does he help in our NCAA graduation rate? Probably not. Was this a transfer problem situation? No - but it hurts your graduation rate.
Nikita - a kid who by all rights was signed as "a bench player" or "project". The situation last year gave him more playing time than he probably deserved and, as a result, he was very disappointed in the reduction of time this year. It it III's fault that we have better players? Is Nikita wrong in wanting to play more - even if it is at another school? Was Nikita in any kind of academic distress? I think the answer to all these questions is no. Where is the "wrong" here?
Rivers & Macklin - whether it was the "system" or playing time - who knows. Rivers clearly saw he was never going to start here. Macklin was not a good fit for the system and couldn't play at the end of a close game because of the foul shooting problem. (Our failure here was not to do whatever Florida has done to get him up to 70% - but let's let that play out over a full season) They both wanted a situation where they were going to play more. Is that wrong? Is it our fault on evaluation? Maybe. Should they be willing to sit if they don't get the playing time they think they deserve? In a perfect world - yes - but that world doesn't exist.
Dujaun - I get the impression he really wasn't inteested in staying in school. III's fault? Maybe - but is it wrong for any kid to take the economic opportunities available to them?
Some of the transfers are for "personal" or "family" reasons. Is anyone complaining about the inbound transfer of Julian, who is blowing up this season and from everything I hear is just a great kid?
If we continue to bring in 2-3 top 50 kids per year, this problem is going to continue. Kids want to play. The ones that don't and think they should in many cases have old AAU coaches in their ear about how their chance at the NBA (legitimate or perceived) is disappearing. At GU it's more difficult to keep them happy because they know that even if they are not playing there are many places they could transfer to that will not require the level of academic commitment required at GU. The athlete's level of personal comfort "perks" at other schools also comes into play. What is the solution to this situation?
The easy solution to this problem is to have 7 or 8 top notch scholarship players and the rest of the team walk-ons. As long as you have recruited players who have the personal goal of wanting to play (not just practice) college basketball at a high level, you are going to have the potential transfer problem. Even if we recruit players who know they will never be pros, do we expect them to not want playing time for their efforts?
Last, the only legitimate question to be asked here is whether the transfering players leave Georgetown in good academic standing. Let's not confuse graduating players from GU with players graduating from college - even if it's a combination of 2 years at Geogetown and finishing at another univeristy. Yes - in the truest sense of what is supposed to be college athletics, the degree is the goal - is it less important if it is not from GU?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 23, 2009 10:11:28 GMT -5
Great post, FTB.
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tjm62
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Post by tjm62 on Dec 23, 2009 10:35:18 GMT -5
The media latches onto Georgetown transfer stories because it meshes well with their endless speculating on whether plays are cramped by "the system"
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Dec 23, 2009 10:43:41 GMT -5
the transfers are a symptom of the fact that iii has to figure out who he can recruit to play in his offense at this level. some kids just wont be able to pick it up and be lost or feel like they are not going to be able to showcase their potential to scouts.
clearly the loss of mescheriakov is not a big deal in terms of on-court personnel, but we did lose a good practice player and we did lose 2 years of investment on a spot which could have gone to another player which could have been a contributor. this team is low on depth and will continue to be so for the years to come. that is not a good thing.
i think iii will be focusing future recruiting on the top 100-300 players not the top 100 caliber, at least for the frontcourt. we have had much better success with developing those kids than with the mcd AAs. look at hibbert, green, vaughn vs. summers, macklin, riley.
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Dec 23, 2009 10:49:53 GMT -5
I don't want to link it because the thread is very critical of a central HT figure, but I will point out that Balla's site lists the number of transfers from a number of high profile programs since 2003. The schools on that list represent the winners of every national championship in that time period. Schools that have more than our 7 transfers in that time include Kentucky, UConn, Syracuse, and Florida. Throw in Kansas and Arizona, who each match our transfer total.
Clearly, the list isn't exhaustive (for example, it doesn't include Indiana), but it illustrates very well that transfers are just a fact of life that major programs have to deal with.
Looking through the list, one thing jumped out at me. With only a few exceptions, the guys who are leaving are the end-of-the-bench players. Probably leaving over playing time, just like our guys have done.
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