guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Dec 20, 2009 15:31:32 GMT -5
Yes, this was a bad loss, but what's being lost in this thread is that ODU might actually be a pretty good team. Have to say they looked like the clearly superior team for much of the game. I know they have 4 losses this season, but I think that team will make some noise this season. It's not a loss that is going to really hurt us - unless we start piling a lot more losses on top of i.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 20, 2009 15:37:59 GMT -5
Good to see most on the board are keeping a level head, at least a day after. ODU is a pretty good team that had a bad trip to a South Padre tournament. I would not be surprised at all if they are the CAA champs. So the loss on its own merit does not bother me unless it carries over against Harvard. This game had all the makings of a possible bump in the road.
The key thing I took from this game is that Julian Vaughn may be the most important player on this team. I honestly feel his foul trouble early in this game was the difference between winning and losing. One, he was unable to be contained in the paint to that point and he ridiculously productive on both ends. Two, Monroe's game always suffers every time JV is out. Monroe either has to be the post presence, which I am not convined he does well, or Monroe has to play a ton of minutes which is never good. So the concern about depth is real and is likely going to be an issue in a few games throughout the season. It gives us very little margin for error, but this team remains a Top 25 team without a doubt.
I would love to see Clark rebound from his off night and cause Lin headaches all night on Wednesday. Beat Harvard!
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Dec 20, 2009 17:05:23 GMT -5
I want to give ODU some credit. They have lost four games, so they can't be *that* good, at least not consistently, but for one night they certainly were. I thought their defense was superb, as was their rebounding. I think statistically they are the #1 team in the country at offensive reobounding, and they certainly got a bunch last night, including the one that cinched the game. Add to that some very good outside shooting that kept us from gaining momentum over and over.
We certainly could have played much better, but I think ODU won it more than we lost it.
I don't think we were all that terrible at FTs - we were 64% from the line and if we hit two more of those we'd be a perfectly respectabe 73% and we still would have lost. The TOs were pretty bad, and so was our D rebounding, but a lot of that was them, not us. Something I can't pin on ODU is continuing terrible 3pt shooting, even in the same gym where we practice.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Dec 20, 2009 18:22:47 GMT -5
I think positives from this game are Chris starting to finally figure out his role offensively and Vaughn being more assertive. Also the team trying to gradually chip away once they went down big and not try to make an 18 point shot. I am actually happy this kind of game was our first loss, and that it wasn't during Big East season. For one they need to learn to bounce back from bad losses, and they can still have a fresh start come December 31st. This game made me nervous about one thing. It isn't depth or any player or the offense. Its how the respond vs Harvard that will tell us what kind of team they are and whether we can expect a collapse like last year. In hindsight a loss like this would have benefitted last years team, so I don't think its something to get all worked up over.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 20, 2009 21:35:45 GMT -5
Haven't read through the thread so apologies if these are repeats, which is more than likely at this point.
1. Despite the atrocious play in some areas - turnovers/missed front ends stick out - we could have won that game and arguably should have. Whether we deserved to win is a separate issue. That we put ourselves in a position to have a chance should be commended all while we criticize for our putting ourselves in a position to lose.
2. To me, the game was lost in the first part of the second half. We lost a lot of clock time there and had nothing to show for it. I can understand that JT3 does not like to press at all, but the experience of the last 3 minutes showed precisely that we did not have to throw out a gimmick press or something out of the old Pitino UK days or UNLV to generate more possessions. By waiting until the end, we did not maximize our opportunity to catch up and allow for a comfortable MOE due to turnovers, missed FT's, and the like. So what if you pick up some extra fouls. We had athleticism on them from our bench or at least an ability to keep them more honest than what we were doing.
3. I like the system and have defended it as much as most anyone, but we can't jam square pegs into round holes here when we turn the ball over. More turnovers + fewer possessions due to clock draining/use on both sides --> problems for GU. What I don't understand is why we have to let other teams be comfortable by sagging back on defense while conceding 1/2-2/3 of the court. So far as I can tell, there is nothing inconsistent with a token man press and our offense (except when we turn the ball over and miss FT's -- can't press then)
4. I give ODU credit. They went with their stuff and didn't get rattled until the end. They are well coached even if they underachieve at times.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 20, 2009 22:24:13 GMT -5
Now that the obligatory 24-hr mourning period is over: Congrats to ODU. Way to punk us in our own gym AGAIN. That takes skill, luck, and onions. Now go win the CAA.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Dec 21, 2009 10:05:00 GMT -5
Prior to the game, I believe Tillman mentioned a quote from JTIII at the time of the last ODU home loss that it was a turning point (for the good) in the Final Four season. Let's hope this loss will turn into another positive turning point. I'd rather the guys regroup and realize they have a lot to work on prior to the BE season, than try to get refocused in the middle of BE play.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Dec 21, 2009 13:04:32 GMT -5
Book your tickets to the final Four!
BTW, was it odu who mentioned that ODU & Co. would buy the McD gym and take it home if the team repeated its 2006 win? It's yours. That would be a nice start to the donations campaign for the new on-campus multi-sports facility... win-win for all!
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 757hoyafan on Dec 21, 2009 14:25:19 GMT -5
I like how we fought back. Too bad we lost. Finney is a good player; I actually thought he was better than Vern when they were teammates.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Dec 21, 2009 15:53:04 GMT -5
Looking over the play by play, Georgetown scored on four of the first 22 possessions (9 points); nine ended in turnovers and nine ended in missed shots. From then on Georgetown scored on 23 of 40 possessions (48 points). [corrected x2]
In the second half, the problem was getting enough stops to close the gap. ODU scored on several second chances (twice after Vaughn blocked shots out of bounds) and hit a couple of clutch threes to stop GU runs.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
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Post by McBricks on Dec 21, 2009 18:04:50 GMT -5
Wow - 18 pages and still going. Wonder how many pages we'd be up to if we had won?
Come on now, we get to go to the Final Four and get a new gym (cause clearly this one is broken). The season rolls on. Bring on Harvard.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 21, 2009 18:11:00 GMT -5
I was there on Saturday night, but am just getting in front of a computer with internet now to post.
Guys just didn't have it this weekend. They basically looked like they were collectively sleepwalking through the first 30 minutes or so, and then decided to make an effort to come back in the last 10 (which can be taken as a positive, but certainly doesn't make up for it). Blame it on whatever you will, but their body language and demeanor on the court was terrible and it was obvious that they would have preferred to be somewhere else than at McD. If I had known they would give that kind of effort, I would have preferred to have been somewhere else too.
Give a LOT of credit to ODU. They executed their game plan really well, and once they got up by double digits, basically played the same way we did during the '05-'06 season: run clock on every offensive possession, hit killer shots with the shot clock winding down, and play sound team defense. I have to completely agree with Ambassador here; JTIII needs to get his guys to play some on-the-ball defense when the other team is obviously trying to milk the clock. I understand some teams might be too athletic to do this to; ODU is not one of them. We just literally stood there and let them bleed the game away until it was far too late.
The free throw shooting has already been discussed, and that probably can be attributed to a lack of concentration. Again, guys just weren't mentally there. If we hit a few more, we might've been able to pull it out despite the poor effort.
Only guy I thought who showed up ready to play on both ends of the floor was Vaughn. Without him, it would have gotten far uglier than it was. I continue to be impressed by how far he's come, and it's now apparent he's become a go-to-guy for this team.
No one else, IMO, had a good game. Guys like JC, GM and AF, we can give a pass to. They've been all good/great for the recent stretch, so it wasn't surprising to see them all have an off-day. It just sucked that they all decided to have it on the same day. Again, credit to ODU for playing good defense.
Guys who didn't play well who have to start stepping it up: CW and HS. If CW wants to be a leader on this team, he has GOT to improve his decision making. I understand the assist totals were high, but being a leader on this team involves more than stats. It means being a calming presence for this team to ensure we don't fall behind by as much as we did. It means stepping up and hitting big shots when this team needs him to. And it means taking care of the ball. I thought he played better than he did vs. Butler and UW against ODU, but he still has a ways to go.
And Sims... don't even get me started. I would rather see Benimon on the floor right now, to be honest. Forgot who said it earlier in this thread (Daytona?), but it looks like he's never played basketball before. Deer in the headlights would be a nice way to describe how he looked out there.
We had been doing a better job of it this year compared to previous years, but we got back into the bad habit of being unable to throw entry passes into the post on Saturday night. Fundamentals, guys. We can't have that many deflections on what should be routine passes. Seeing someone throw a bounce pass once in awhile would be nice.
Lastly, thanks to everyone who braved the storm to show up and cheer us on. It was NASTY outside (I know it took me about 2.5 hours each way to make it), and to have that many people there was a surprise to me.
One loss does not ruin a season. As Coach says, we just have to make sure one loss doesn't turn into a prolonged losing streak. Take care of business on Wed. and all will be fine.
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