Katz sees the light!

[hoyahoyasaxa]

sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=1992051

6. Is the ACC clearly the nation's best conference?
No.

It might be the best at the top, but the Big East is the deepest conference, with the potential for seven NCAA Tournament teams (if Villanova, Notre Dame and Georgetown hold steady). The ACC, which some suggested could receive seven or eight bids out of 11 teams, could get as few as four bids. But five or six is more likely. Miami and Virginia Tech have been surprisingly competitive, but they have basically replaced Virginia and Florida State in the hunt for NCAA berths, not joined them.

However, the ACC does have the most title contenders. The top three -- Wake Forest, North Carolina and Duke -- all have the look of a potential champion. Ultimately, that's how conferences are measured.

If the ACC gets more teams in the Elite Eight and Final Four, the league will be judged to be better than the Big East by season's end.

[Cambridge]

I like the way the criteria for best conference changes when it suits the ACC. I mean at the beginning of the seaon, the best conference was measure by how many bids each league will get.

And everyone said, "oooh, the ACC will get 7, they are the best conference top to bottom."

Now that that's obviously not true, the criteria switches to "ooooh, the ACC will get more teams in the elite eight and final four, even though the BE sent more teams to the dance, the ACC is clearly better."

When the BE sends more to elite eight, I imagine the criteria will switch to "ooooh, the ACC will win the NCAA tourney, even though the BE sent more teams to the elite eight, the ACC is clearly better."

Basically, why don't they just come out and say it. They like the two top teams (WF and UNC) and have a nostalgic love for Duke. But outside of that they are backpedeling for all their ridiculous and absurd statements throughout the year. They have no stats to back up their claim and are having to recalibrate the method by which they themselves judged the ACC to be the best because the ACC is failing their own criteria.

What a bunch of BULL. Just because the ACC has the best team, doesn't make it a stellar conference. Why can't ESPN just admit that. Idiots.

[Churchwell]

I know I will probably get blasted for some of what I am about to say...but here goes.

Yes, there was a ton of hype at the beginning of the season about how the ACC was going to dominate this year. Yes, ESPN and Billy Packer and Dick Vitale and Jay Bilas and all the rest are largely to blame for blowing their horns. But isn't their job to sell the product? Isn't it their job to continue selling the product? Why would we expect them to come out and say "we were wrong, the ACC isn't as good as we thought, the Big East is better." It's in their best interest to kindle the fire and keep the debate going.

As a fan, I LOVE the new angle of the Big East is deeper and tougher but the teams at the top of the ACC are stronger. On the one hand...it's true, and on the other hand, it adds that much more drama to the NCAAs this year. What basketball fan isn't going to take note of how many ACC and Big East teams get in this year and what the respective seeds are? What fan isn't going to look 2-3 games down the bracket to see if any potential Big East and ACC teams match up?

Of course we're going to judge the "best" conference based on things like how many teams get in, how many make it to the sweet sixteen, the elite eight, the final four. And of course the conference that is home to the eventual champion will stake their claim as well. How your team and conference shakes out will determine how much weight you give whatever statistics are available.

Why do we have to take anything away from the ACC? Personally I love the Big East/ACC us-vs-them drama. I think all the hype surrounding UNC and Duke is just part of basketball. I love that the Terps will forever be in the shadow of Tobacco road no matter how much success they have against Duke and UNC. I also like watching ACC basketball as much as I like watching Big East basketball, cause I'm a fan. This is setting up to be one of the most exciting post seasons ever (especially if the Hoyas remain steady down the stretch and get a berth in the NCAAs). Heck this could be one of the most wide open Big East tournaments ever. I wouldn't put it past NC State of GA Tech to make a run in the ACC tournament as well, because they are very good teams.

So the pundits were wrong. Big deal. They were doing their jobs and I think we all probably agreed that the ACC looked great on paper from top to bottom (well, almost to bottom) at the beginning of the season. We all probably thought Providence had a decent shot at the NCAAs this year as well. Heck most of us were convinced that anything more than 5-6 wins for the Hoyas this year would be gravy. It's a great year for college hoops and I LOVE it. I say keep the ESPN hype machine going...heck ESPN is now firmly on the "7 teams from the Big East bandwagon"...that's fantastic!

[FormerHoya]

Churchwell said:

I know I will probably get blasted for some of what I am about to say...but here goes.

Yes, there was a ton of hype at the beginning of the season about how the ACC was going to dominate this year. Yes, ESPN and Billy Packer and Dick Vitale and Jay Bilas and all the rest are largely to blame for blowing their horns. But isn't their job to sell the product? Isn't it their job to continue selling the product? Why would we expect them to come out and say "we were wrong, the ACC isn't as good as we thought, the Big East is better." It's in their best interest to kindle the fire and keep the debate going.

As a fan, I LOVE the new angle of the Big East is deeper and tougher but the teams at the top of the ACC are stronger. On the one hand...it's true, and on the other hand, it adds that much more drama to the NCAAs this year. What basketball fan isn't going to take note of how many ACC and Big East teams get in this year and what the respective seeds are? What fan isn't going to look 2-3 games down the bracket to see if any potential Big East and ACC teams match up?

Of course we're going to judge the "best" conference based on things like how many teams get in, how many make it to the sweet sixteen, the elite eight, the final four. And of course the conference that is home to the eventual champion will stake their claim as well. How your team and conference shakes out will determine how much weight you give whatever statistics are available.

Why do we have to take anything away from the ACC? Personally I love the Big East/ACC us-vs-them drama. I think all the hype surrounding UNC and Duke is just part of basketball. I love that the Terps will forever be in the shadow of Tobacco road no matter how much success they have against Duke and UNC. I also like watching ACC basketball as much as I like watching Big East basketball, cause I'm a fan. This is setting up to be one of the most exciting post seasons ever (especially if the Hoyas remain steady down the stretch and get a berth in the NCAAs). Heck this could be one of the most wide open Big East tournaments ever. I wouldn't put it past NC State of GA Tech to make a run in the ACC tournament as well, because they are very good teams.

So the pundits were wrong. Big deal. They were doing their jobs and I think we all probably agreed that the ACC looked great on paper from top to bottom (well, almost to bottom) at the beginning of the season. We all probably thought Providence had a decent shot at the NCAAs this year as well. Heck most of us were convinced that anything more than 5-6 wins for the Hoyas this year would be gravy. It's a great year for college hoops and I LOVE it. I say keep the ESPN hype machine going...heck ESPN is now firmly on the "7 teams from the Big East bandwagon"...that's fantastic!

Here comes the_way's angry response in 5....4.....3....

[TrueHoyaBlue]

and aggypryd's retort mere seconds later... ;D

[chinatownfanclub]

Churchwell said:

I know I will probably get blasted for some of what I am about to say...but here goes.

I wouldn't put it past NC State of GA Tech to make a run in the ACC tournament as well, because they are very good teams.

So based on your criteria a "very good team" would need to be at or below 500 in conference and have no wins over rpi top 50 on the road. You know what you are right you should be blasted.

[chinatownfanclub]

i hope u enjoy the kool aid...

[Cambridge]

NC State and Georgia Tech are very good teams in the same sense that Providence is going to the tourney and Rutgers is just one year away from national dominance.

[SFHoya99]

CambridgeHoya said:

NC State and Georgia Tech are very good teams in the same sense that Providence is going to the tourney and Rutgers is just one year away from national dominance.

Georgia Tech obviously has the talent to make a run in the ACC tournament, a la Maryland a year ago. But they aren't a very good team.

NC State has been overhyped the entire Julius Hodge run. They have yet to deliver and I see no reason why anyone would ever call them a very good team.

That said, I hope they beat Maryland tonight.

[HoyaSox04]

Aren't you guys forgetting the heralded TB Theorem?

Any team with Tony Bethel on it automatically becomes a contender for the national championship.

Please fellas, this theorem has been tried and tested on the streets of West Philly. The Fresh Prince tells me the Wolfpack and Coach Jeff van Gundy VIII will be cutting down the nets in April.

Or maybe I'm getting this confused with that pesky Julius "I look like I'm Somalian" Hodge Theorem.

Hell, I dont do science.

LET'S GO BJ ELDER!

[Shmerrick2]

I'm sorry...I forget. Which conference has won 3 out of the last 4 NCAA Championships? The Big East you say? Interesting....

I also like looking at all the teams that are joining the BE next year, and whether or not they make the tourney. Sure Miami and VT are playing "well" and BC is going, but next year the BE is going to be ridiculously stacked...

[Big Dog]

Are we really going to be stacked? I'd argue that the top 7 in the current Big East are better than everybody joining the league next year except Louisville. Marquette may be on a downhill slope. DePaul seems unlikely to rise above occasional 8-10 seed status. South Florida is terrible. I think Cincinnati and Louisville add a lot, and I do think the overall coaching profile of the conference will have improved. But I'm not sure that means that the conference will be significantly better. There's only so many wins to go around. I bet Providence would be among the leaders in C-USA this season.

[One]

Big Dog, maybe a little east coast bias blinds you to the fact there are some good teams in C-USA other than Louisville. In fact, good teams exist in many places outside the Big East and ACC. Louisville is a great team to add (they were even good before east coaster of note Rick Pitino arrived) to the conference. Cincinnati is consistently good, though having a poorer season this year, and will provide stiff competition at the top of conference standings, even if I despise their coach and the program he runs. And DePaul and Marquette are building solid programs with young, enthusiastic, solid coaches, not too dissimilar to JTIII. Both schools have similar demographics, if not similar academics, to Georgetown and very much reflect the urban atmospheres of the traditional Big East urban Catholic schools. No, I do not expect those two teams to compete for conference titles or trips to the Elite Eight on a consistent basis, but they will certainly make the league stronger.

[Deleted]

Careful, One.....the_way may be lurking and ready to label you a C-USA whore.....

[FormerHoya]

Still waiting for the_way's furious denouncement of all things acc...

Also, I'm a little worried about Crean. This year's team would have been significantly better had ODB stayed (anyone see the end of the UNLV game?), and Marquette has showed very little since Wade left. They have a great class coming in next year, and if there isn't significant improvement, there could be trouble...

[CAHoya07]

This year's team would have been significantly better had ODB stayed

I thought ODB died...

[FormerHoya]

I thought ODB died...

Sorry, Odartey Blankston.

[HOYAPLAYA]

Big said:

Are we really going to be stacked? I'd argue that the top 7 in the current Big East are better than everybody joining the league next year except Louisville. Marquette may be on a downhill slope. DePaul seems unlikely to rise above occasional 8-10 seed status. South Florida is terrible. I think Cincinnati and Louisville add a lot, and I do think the overall coaching profile of the conference will have improved. But I'm not sure that means that the conference will be significantly better. There's only so many wins to go around. I bet Providence would be among the leaders in C-USA this season.

From the way Providence beat up on UVA, I'd have to believe that they'd be right smack dab in the middle of the pack with Miami, Va Tech and GT in the ACC.

[FOTP]

Katz is giving us some serious props in his ESPN chat today. Green for ROY and JTIII in the discussion for National Coach of the Year! Keep the faith...and beat ND!!!


Steve (Minneapolis, MN): Who do you think wins Big East Rookie of the Year Rudy Gay or Jeff Green.

Andy Katz: (4:20 PM ET ) I'd go with Jeff Green.

Al Skinner (Chestnut Hill, MA): National Coach of the Year?

Andy Katz: (4:22 PM ET ) Skinner or John Thompson III. Bruce Weber will be right there, too.
Mike Krzyzewski should get some consideration as should Rick Pitino. But the odds favor Skinner.

[TBird41]

And aren't the new rules about graduating going to gut Cincinnati? Don't they have to graduate a certian number of players a year in order to avoid sanctions?