SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 17, 2009 12:03:00 GMT -5
I love the "other" Pitt game -- the chest bump at mid-court.
It is beyond enjoyable to watch them celebrate ridiculously knowing they are about to get slapped around.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Dec 17, 2009 12:12:23 GMT -5
I agree with HSB. The OSU game was great in retrospect solely because of the context. I remember very little from the actual game (save Roy's spin move) because we so thoroughly outclassed them. Conversely, I remember a whole heck of a lot more from the Florida game right afterwards because of how close of a game it was.
And it's not that we beat Duke that so many of us like that game so much. I mean, it certainly didn't hurt. But had we beaten an undefeated UNC, KU, or some other storied program, it would have had the same cache. What makes the context isn't who we beat, but what it meant for our program. We certainly had started to play better basketball under JTIII and looked dangerous the year prior. But we were coming out of 40 days in the desert, not having been to the tournament since 2001. We had gotten close the year before, but hadn't gotten over the hump and the year didn't end so well. But by beating a #1 Duke, we had our signature win to show we were back. We did it on national TV, were the lead on every sports outlet. While we all might have known we were on the road back, that win let everyone in the country know it too.
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hoyajoker07
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Post by hoyajoker07 on Dec 17, 2009 12:20:40 GMT -5
It just seems to give Duke more credit than they deserve. Beating Duke in January is better than a last-second NCAA win, or a Big East tournament championship game, or a regular season win that wraps up a #1 seed in New York, or even beating your most-hated rival? That's a lot of juice for Duke. There lies the problem. Hoya fans get more excited about beating Duke than by beating old rivals. Without question the Duke win was special and it should be placed in the top five of this decade. But too much is made of it when compared to other big wins. By the way no one talks about that win against Ohio State the same year which is arguably a bigger win considering it took place during the NCAA tournament in the state of Ohio. Not many people care about the win against Pitt in the Big East tourney which gave Gtown its first BE Tournament title in 17 or 18 years. Yeah, I agree with the Pitt one completely and it WOULD be in the top 10 for me, but it's not like Duke happened in a vacuum and it's not like to Hoya fans, the headline was "Duke Goes Down." The headline was "We are legitimately back. We can be the team that takes down the headliner." I also think it's a bit hair-splitting to say it's a top 5 game but everyone's rating it too high. For me, UNC IS a bigger game than Duke, but I have to say, while it was an amazing game, Vandy's not on equal footing with UNC because UNC was the next step. I imagine the farthest win in a given tournament is going to be the sweetest most of the time.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 17, 2009 14:52:56 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more, CA. If this one falls where it does, I'm hard pressed to include any game from the Esherick era on the list, and that is a shame. The Burton game belongs somewhere, as does the UVA game. That the UVA game from the first round of the NIT could be listed ahead of a game that put us back in the Elite 8 just reflects the degree to which underachievement continues to be rewarded just to make people feel good/included.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 17, 2009 18:08:34 GMT -5
The Vandy game was huge. If no last second shot & win, then no chance at UNC, no Final Four, no Jeff Green Regional MVP, etc. Hard-pressed to understand why it's 12th, but it'll sure be exciting re-living #s 11 through 1.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 17, 2009 18:39:47 GMT -5
Re: Duke. To a certain extent I agree with MCI. We should care more about the big BE wins than we do about a non-league win. But I was at both the Duke game in '06 and the BET final in '07. They are, without a doubt, the two games I enjoyed most in person, but for very different reasons. What set the Duke win apart, and this is nothing that hasn't been said already, is that it sort of returned us to the national scene in a serious way. We knocked off an unbeaten, #1 ranked team. A Duke team. As much as we truly hate, say Syracuse, more than Duke, there's something special about beating ESPN's pet team. Especially when that team is trying to break its own record for best start in school history. The absolute dominance we displayed in the first half, and our ability to hang on in the second (I think we were up 14 at half, and obviously won by 3) was something special. What made the game stand out, though, was the way it transformed the student population's outlook on the basketball team. That game turned the casual fans among the student population into serious followers. It was a huge deal for those of us who were already serious fans. I don't know if I can really convey how much that game changed the atmosphere on campus. The HOYA's "BEAT DUKE" centerfolds weren't just in the student section that day. They were plastered all over campus for the rest of the year.
Would it have been better if that win had come over a #1 UCONN or Syracuse or Villanova team? To a certain extent, yes. But a lot of students, who were not Hoya fans before enrolling, do not look at those teams the way that they look at Duke, a team everyone hates. As much as I knew we were supposed to hate Syracuse, my dislike of the Orangemen stemmed mostly general obnoxiousness, not anything Hoya related, until that year. And it wasn't our 23 point win on Bowman/Cook/Owens's Senior Day that solidified it. (That was awesome, but not cathartic like the Duke game.) It was the loss at MSG in the BET that year. That game transformed my hatred for Syracuse from something that I wanted to feel to something indelibly etched in my soul. I think it did the same for many Hoya fans of my "generation." People hated Duke because they hated the ESPN coverage of Duke. So the win was huge. We hated Syracuse because we watched the Rat hit Cheddar Bob with a pass to set up a layup in the final seconds to end our BET run, and had to listen to thousands of Orangeclad scum celebrate. The Duke win put students in my generation in a place to hate the BE rivals the way we were supposed to.
Now, the Pitt game in the BET final. That was amazing, but for a totally different reason. It was great because it was essentially a party, a coronation. We had seen the Hoyas beat Duke and go to the Sweet Sixteen the year before. We had watched Roy come out of his shell against Ohio State. We had seen the team recover from the graduation losses of 2006 to win a Big East regular season crown. Watched Jeff become a killer with late game heroics at Villanova. Watched Roy outplay Aaron Gray in the regular season. Watched the Hoyas beat UCONN for the first time in a decade on Senior Day. Watched Jeff put on a show against Notre Dame in the Garden. And there we were. Saturday night. New York City. Madison Square Garden. Big East Tournament final. Hoyas-Pitt. We were confident, but still not sure that we would be able to beat this team again, if Roy could dominate Gray again. And it was a laugher. And fast. Sometimes blowouts aren't that exciting. When you're on the winning side of one in the BET final, they are. The Hoyas showed they were for real that night, something which carried through all the way to Atlanta.
So to sum up, I'm not really sure whether I think Duke or Pitt BET final was a bigger game--they are my two personal favorites. And writing this has put me in a great mood, and made me think of so many of the other great games over the last 5+ years. Now let's go destroy ODU.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 17, 2009 20:31:04 GMT -5
What this really calls for... ...is someone with the time and energy to set up a poll where Hoyatalk folks can submit their votes for the Top 20...and then release that list too. If you wanted to go second level, you could try to even it out between fans of different eras--no use having the folks from the 1970s or the ones whose earliest memory is Roy Hibbert totally skewing things. Incidentally...NOT IT! So much of it is subjective, and it's verrrrrrrrrrry hard to separate yourself from personal experiences. What would be more interesting is to do the Top 20 games of the 2000's list in Dec 2019. One of the points of debate recently here has been Duke 06 vs. games with "consequence" like BET 07 or Vandy 07. I reckon as you get further away, the games in the latter category would become more meaningful. Or would they?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 17, 2009 20:54:53 GMT -5
With hindsight, I think some have forgotten just how major the Duke game was. On January 21, 2006, I recall reading the board, and the point of comparison in terms of the game's importance was the Sweater Game - one so good, it has its own name. Few of us could probably forget reading every single article possible about the game, including 11 from the HOYA alone, 4 in the Post, and 3 in the Washington Times.
The game also generated what I consider to be the first GU hoops Youtube moment - . Absolutely unbelievable moment of energy perhaps only eclipsed by the UNC game this decade.
Most remember exactly where they watched the Duke game and exactly what they did on the same day. A few of us loonies then repeated the routine on game days for the year and a half to follow.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 17, 2009 21:53:02 GMT -5
With hindsight, I think some have forgotten just how major the Duke game was. On January 21, 2006, I recall reading the board, and the point of comparison in terms of the game's importance was the Sweater Game - one so good, it has its own name. Few of us could probably forget reading every single article possible about the game, including 11 from the HOYA alone, 4 in the Post, and 3 in the Washington Times. The game also generated what I consider to be the first GU hoops Youtube moment - . Absolutely unbelievable moment of energy perhaps only eclipsed by the UNC game this decade. Most remember exactly where they watched the Duke game and exactly what they did on the same day. A few of us loonies then repeated the routine on game days for the year and a half to follow. The sweater game? #1 vs #2? Two Final Four teams? Big East Finalists? Instead #1 v #NR and two Sweet 16 teams not in the same conference? I loved the Duke game. Again I was at that game. It was great. But the sweater game was an iconic NCAA basketball game of the 80s. Nobody knows the Duke-Georgetown game except this board and the Duke board.
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hoyajoker07
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Post by hoyajoker07 on Dec 18, 2009 13:54:35 GMT -5
With hindsight, I think some have forgotten just how major the Duke game was. On January 21, 2006, I recall reading the board, and the point of comparison in terms of the game's importance was the Sweater Game - one so good, it has its own name. Few of us could probably forget reading every single article possible about the game, including 11 from the HOYA alone, 4 in the Post, and 3 in the Washington Times. The game also generated what I consider to be the first GU hoops Youtube moment - . Absolutely unbelievable moment of energy perhaps only eclipsed by the UNC game this decade. Most remember exactly where they watched the Duke game and exactly what they did on the same day. A few of us loonies then repeated the routine on game days for the year and a half to follow. The sweater game? #1 vs #2? Two Final Four teams? Big East Finalists? Instead #1 v #NR and two Sweet 16 teams not in the same conference? I loved the Duke game. Again I was at that game. It was great. But the sweater game was an iconic NCAA basketball game of the 80s. Nobody knows the Duke-Georgetown game except this board and the Duke board. True, but for some of us, the Duke win is the first win we felt "we were there" for, by which I mean that it's harder to put them both on the same scale in our minds. I'm sure a lot of fans who "were there" for both would put the Sweater Game over it. But for me, that's like a classic family story.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 18, 2009 18:22:52 GMT -5
True, but for some of us, the Duke win is the first win we felt "we were there" for, by which I mean that it's harder to put them both on the same scale in our minds. I'm sure a lot of fans who "were there" for both would put the Sweater Game over it. But for me, that's like a classic family story. The Duke game is an interesting test of personal significance vs. larger significance. On personal significance, any of the stories you read on this board would suffice for why the Duke game was so huge. Heck, I wrote a 7,000+ word Generation Burton column about the Duke game. And you COULD play the "larger significance" angle about what that win represented for the resurrection of the program. Plenty do it, and I'm on board for the most part. Buuuuuuuut, that's more personal b/c it's Georgetown-centric. If you want a "larger significance" game, BET championship games and NCAA games will always resonate because they fall in the postseason and in some cases are played for a trophy. IF you go "larger significance" for a regular season game, it has to have a lasting hook that makes the larger public remember it. If you say "Sweater Game" a fair percentage of the college basketball public--and certainly Big East fans--know what you're talking about. Try to find a similar hook for the 2006 GU-Duke game. In fact, the lasting resonance of that Duke game to the college basketball public AT THE TIME was probably limited. The story that day, in fact, was that the last THREE undefeated teams in CBB lost that day (Duke, Pitt to SJU, and Florida to Tennessee). We were part of that shuffle. Sure, our game was probably the best of those three, but a few weeks later, it was a blip. Okay, yes, beating Duke is a big deal I guess. But doesn't SOME team, EVERY year, have the same "beating Duke" memory? It must've happened to Florida State 2-3 years in a row in the early 2000s. Maryland sure took their games seriously in the early 2000s (and still does). Clemson played a rocking home game last year didn't they? And Wisconsin gets the early honor of knocking off the Dukies. Same deal with #1 teams--nobody's run the table since Indiana in 1976 right? (or was it 1981?) It changes hands fairly often. Of course...this list is MEANT to be personal, so maybe it's all a wash. Just being devil's advocate. ;D (For the record, on my list, GU vs. Duke is #3)
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saxamaphone
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Post by saxamaphone on Dec 22, 2009 9:54:39 GMT -5
So yesterday DFW unveiled his #9 - the 4OT debacle against ND at the phone booth.
Most people remember this game as the quintessential Braswell game, at least as far as the end of game strategy goes, but there is one particular thing that drives me absolutely up a wall about this game.
Ryan Humphrey picked up his 4th foul with something like 5 minutes to play in regulation and never fouled out. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? How does their only legitimate inside presence not pick up A SINGLE FOUL in 25 MINUTES of a close game? He played more minutes than anyone on our whole team!
He was the only non-guard threat on the court for them that day. Once he picks up that fourth, how do you not just put Trenton Hillier in and have him run right at him?
/rant
Also, as DFW pointed out, Sweets' line was disgusting: 35 points, 20 rebounds, 6 blocks, and 6 assists.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 22, 2009 17:24:28 GMT -5
Ryan Humphrey picked up his 4th foul with something like 5 minutes to play in regulation and never fouled out. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? How does their only legitimate inside presence not pick up A SINGLE FOUL in 25 MINUTES of a close game? He played more minutes than anyone on our whole team! Stranger still, Harvey Thomas played 22 mins and only committed one foul! ;D
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 23, 2009 16:45:38 GMT -5
Ryan Humphrey picked up his 4th foul with something like 5 minutes to play in regulation and never fouled out. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? How does their only legitimate inside presence not pick up A SINGLE FOUL in 25 MINUTES of a close game? He played more minutes than anyone on our whole team! Stranger still, Harvey Thomas played 22 mins and only committed one foul! ;D Trivia Question: Was it a charge or not?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 23, 2009 16:52:07 GMT -5
With hindsight, I think some have forgotten just how major the Duke game was. On January 21, 2006, I recall reading the board, and the point of comparison in terms of the game's importance was the Sweater Game - one so good, it has its own name. Few of us could probably forget reading every single article possible about the game, including 11 from the HOYA alone, 4 in the Post, and 3 in the Washington Times. The game also generated what I consider to be the first GU hoops Youtube moment - . Absolutely unbelievable moment of energy perhaps only eclipsed by the UNC game this decade. Most remember exactly where they watched the Duke game and exactly what they did on the same day. A few of us loonies then repeated the routine on game days for the year and a half to follow. What I remember most about the Duke game is going back to campus that night and seeing all of the Hoya pullouts with "We" on top of the "Beat Duke". For creating that sort of team identification when it had been so absent for so long, that game was special.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Dec 28, 2009 15:16:59 GMT -5
Bumped to point out that DFW is down to #5 on the front page ( link): the Sweet-16 loss to Florida. Off the top of my head, remaining candidates would be: - at UNC in NIT (Mar. 2003) <- Drew Hall for 3
- vs. Duke (Jan. 2006)
- at Ohio State in NCAAs (Mar. 2006)
- vs. Pitt in BET (Mar 2007)
- vs. UNC in NCAAs (Mar. 2007)
- vs. UConn (Jan 2008) <- Hibbert for 3
Since there are only 4 slots left, two of those have been left out of the top 20 (UNC [NIT] and UConn, I'd guess). Any others I missed? Edited to add: The first post in this thread has the full list so far
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 28, 2009 20:32:20 GMT -5
I think its easy to pick the last four:
The Pitt win in the BE Championship The win against Ohio State to get to the Sweet 16. The win against Duke The win against UNC.
It may not be in this order but to me those are the no-brainers.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 29, 2009 10:35:44 GMT -5
That Big Three is hard to argue with. While I can understand why some might put the Duke game at the top- it really stands out in my memory as the real sign of the rennaisance on the Hilltop- I think you have to put UNC game in NJ at the top and then capturing our 7th BET title at MSG as #2. I think the Duke game stands out so much for some of us because it was the first seismic victory in so long that it's impact was magnified. I remember everything about watching that game- more than the other two even though I attended one of those! But in the end, the stakes of the other two games speak more loudly than the memory of the Duke victory.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 29, 2009 11:10:35 GMT -5
#4 is listed as the Ohio State game. I was out of the country for that one - thanks to Rosslynhoya for sending me an email that I found the next morning with the subject line of "royroyroyROYroyroyroyroyROY" and including the words "the city of Dayton has been forcibly relocated to the state of George".
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jan 4, 2010 17:44:25 GMT -5
Forgot about this, with New Year's and everything: HoyaSaxa.com names the March 25, 2007 overtime win over North Carolina as the #1 Georgetown game of the decade. I concur.
The rest of the final list: 2. Jan. 21, 2006: Georgetown 87, Duke 84 3. Mar. 10, 2007: Georgetown 65, Pittsburgh 42 4. Mar. 19, 2006: Georgetown 70, Ohio St. 52 5. Mar. 24, 2006: Florida 57, Georgetown 53 6. Mar. 15, 2000: Georgetown 115, Virginia 111 (4OT) 7. Mar. 15, 2001: Georgetown 63, Arkansas 61 8. Mar. 8, 2008: Georgetown 55, Louisville 52 9. Feb. 9, 2002: Notre Dame 116, Georgetown 111 (4 OT) 10. Mar. 9, 2007: Georgetown 84, Notre Dame 82 11. Mar. 1, 2008: Georgetown 70, Marquette 68 (OT) 12. Mar. 23, 2007: Georgetown 66, Vanderbilt 65 13. Dec. 29, 2008: Georgetown 74, Connecticut 63 14. Jan. 5, 2005: Georgetown 67, Pittsburgh 64 15. Mar. 9, 2000: Georgetown 76, Syracuse 72 16. Jan. 26, 2008: Georgetown 58, West Virginia 57 17. Jan. 14, 2005: Georgetown 66, Villanova 64 18. Nov. 30, 2004: Georgetown 76, Davidson 51 19. Jan. 24, 2006: Georgetown 85, Notre Dame 82 (2 OT) 20. Jan. 6, 2001: Georgetown 78, Seton Hall 66
A few gripes: -The Vandy game listed at #11 is a crime, it should be #4. Amazing finish on Jeff's non-travel, and it set up the game of the decade. -No 2008 UConn on the list at all? Roy's second career three pointer for the win in the final five seconds? Blasphemy. Should be around #10. -Florida loss way too high - I think more people moan and groan about what could have been about the Davidson loss than this one. That 2006 team already overachieved - it was a #7 seed that made it to the Sweet 16.
That said, great idea and fun to debate about. Here's hoping for many more great regular season and tournament games in the new decade and beyond.
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