Monroe was great: Scouts unimpressed?!

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Reading some twitter last night after the game. Apparently draft express hates him and according to them the NBA scouts there were not impressed with greg at all. Here are some quotes:

"On 1st glance it seems like Gordon Hayward might be more athletic than Greg Monroe."
"Greg Monroe playing pretty good, but man he's not moving well at all. Is it possible for a guy who is 19 to age 15 years in 6 months?"

Seth dvis tweeted this:"Anyone else want to express doubts about Greg Monroe? didn't think so."
Draft express responded with:
"Section at 86 at MSG(where the NBA scouts are) has plenty. Go talk to them."
Seth responded: "Same guys who passed on DeJuan Blair"
Draft express responded: "Very different reasons. One guy has no ACL's, one has no heart and moves like he's 40"?!


"Strange to watch a guy have 22 and 12 and come away so completely underwhelmed. That's how I feel about Greg Monroe tonight"

Seth asked: "Are minds changing on Monroe in sec86?Only has 24+14.Should be lottery pick"

Draft express responded: "Some guys like him, most don't"

Some rando wrote: "Maybe Monroe's bb IQ is not that high or he just doesn't know the whole Princeton system..."
Draft express responded: "BBIQ is super high " at least they got that right

Another person asked: "Monroe, do you think he's hiding an injury "
Draft express responded: "No I think he's just a non-athlete"

[Elvado]

Here's hoping they hate for two more years of college ball...

[superan]

Scouts/Recruiting rankings are unintentionally the most hilarious part of college/professional basketball.

[Boz]

Nice comeback by Seth Davis re: Dejuan Blair.

The subsequent rejoinder was unconvincing.

[theexorcist]

With the potential exception of the Secretary of State testifying to the General Assembly of the United Nations, nothing seems to be a more reliable source to me than second-hand information passed via Twitter on behalf of people whose goal it is to find diamonds in the rough.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Luke winn chimes in on this in his article on the game:
"But what can Monroe do to satisfy NBA scouts? He's a lock to be a first-round pick next June, but there's much disagreement over whether he's still worthy of being taken in the top 10. One scout I texted with during the game said, "I like [Monroe] as a slashing/passing power forward," and Butler coach Brad Stevens made a favorable comparison between Monroe's passing ability and that of Florida's Joakim Noah and Al Horford, top-10 picks whom the Bulldogs faced in the NCAA tournament in 2007.

But many others voiced concerns about Monroe's explosiveness and, as one scout put it, "lack of visible physical improvement" from Year 1 to 2. A tweet from DraftExpress' Jonathan Givony late in the second half said, "Strange to watch a guy have 22 and 12 and come away so completely underwhelmed. That's how I feel about Greg Monroe tonight."

If evaluators are underwhelmed by Monroe's career game -- a performance that, at least to a college basketball writer, seemed impressive -- will they ever be sold on the Hoyas' center?"

[chep3]

It is what it is. Our guys are probably always going to get killed for not being assertive enough or aggressive enough or whatever intangible bs some want to come up with. I remember hearing about Jeff being too passive to be a difference maker in the NBA and tell me how that worked out. Just as Jeff started to take over the end of games as the season dragged on (@nova, ND in the BET, Vandy), hopefully Greg will too. He had a good start with that finish against Temple.

Fact of the matter is, scouts are always going to be down on guys for not being something. Greg Oden and Thabeet weren't assertive enough, but yet assertive guys like Hansborough and Blair slip for other reasons. In any given draft, there are like 2 guys max that scouts uniformly like. The rest are guys that have some holes in their game, but the ones that develop are the ones that work at it. You only need 1 scout to like you anyways, and I'm wholly confident Greg will find 1 in the top 10.

[GUJook97]

Yeah, this is nothing but good news. You could look at it like you guys said where he may remain under the radar, but there is also the case that the major outlets disagree with his draft rating criticism, so you may see them build him up even more...see, Katz article today.

[jackdog74]

Greg scored a lot of his field goals when Howard was out of the game and he was defended by guys 4-5 inches shorter. If Monroe was consistently getting position, backing his guy down and hitting his shot, I would have been more impressed. Watching the game, I can see where the scouts are coming from.

That being said, for defense and rebounding, Greg was awesome. If he puts his offensive game together as the season goes on, which is a definite possibility, I can see him being a high lottery pick. But right now, he definitely has work to do on the offensive end.

[tjm62]

It's still early, Greg will only get better as this season wears on. Also, these scouts are being a little ridiculous, I think he moves very well for someone of his size.

I hope Greg doesn't drop too far in the draft (I don't think he will)-- both for his sake and because the media will blabber on about how the 'princeton offense' might have stifled his considerable potential (obviously crap).

[HoyaSinceBirth]

community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2009/12/09/take_it_or_leave_it_georgetowns_monroe_wont_change_who_he_is

[SFHoya99]

So, let's get one thing straight.

Johnathon Givony (sp?), has no more qualifications than most of us on this board. I commend him for starting his own website and doing well at it, and he's certainly no idiot. I like the fact that there's a good chance he'll respond to this thread, though at times the manner in which he does so is not exactly professional.

So, yeah, remember, this is the dude who thought Stanley Robinson was a lottery pick. Two years ago. He's an athleticism guy to be kind; someone who completely ignores skill to be a little more mean.

That said, while he's way over the top, he does have a point. Greg is a good athlete for 6'11", certainly an NBA level athlete. Is he a Blake-Griffin level athlete? No. Does he need to be? No.

What Greg needs to do is use his skills better. But there's no doubt he could show off more athleticism -- though for some people athleticism = constant hops.

In addition, he really could stand to improve his post game to more than one or two moves. I'm pretty shocked he doesn't have the Georgetown hook down yet.

That's not to say Greg isn't great. It's not to say certain people aren't wildly misunderestimating him. But I can see some of what he's saying -- the explosiveness and flash aren't necessarily elite level.

[Filo]

Dec 9, 2009 10:02:31 GMT -5 jackdog74 said:

Greg scored a lot of his field goals when Howard was out of the game and he was defended by guys 4-5 inches shorter. If Monroe was consistently getting position, backing his guy down and hitting his shot, I would have been more impressed. Watching the game, I can see where the scouts are coming from.

Well, dontcha think Greg had a little something to do with Howard being out of the game in the first place?

[butler]

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but does anyone honestly disagree with the scouts that greg is fairly unathletic for such a good player? Yeah, they are overstating it with their BS lines about looking 40 years old, but I too question how his game will translate to the NBA, given that he can't jump that well without a running a start. He misses a ton of bunnies because he's not dunking, because he doesn't get up that well. Same reason he doesn't jump center before the game. A lot like Othello is that respect -- #1 prospect comign out of high school and then you see that he can't really jump. Now Greg is more athletic and has a lot of skills that O didnt have (passing and a handle), but neither is the type to get a rebound in traffic and take it back up for a power dunk. I think he'll make a fine pro, but right now he looks to me more like a future #2 guy on an NBA team, not a #1. If he develops a better J, develops his considerable passing skills, develops his handle, and his right hand, then maybe he's a #1 guy -- to me that says he should stick around for his junior year to develop those skills, even if he has a dominant year this year. But we still have a long way to go this season, so maybe he'll improve enough this year to silence the doubters.

[williambraskyiii]

I'm actually shocked at the criticism. As JTIII said, he missed a couple chippies in close - he needs to work on finishing, but I am confident that will improve as the season progresses...

the most impressive GM basket for me all night last night: his face-up 10-12ft jumper from the baseline. If he can add that to his repertoire, GM will be unstoppable.

Keep putting up 24 and 15 Greg and don't listen to any of the haters...I think things will turn out juuuuuuust fine.

[SaxaCD]

Dec 9, 2009 10:45:23 GMT -5 butler said:

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but does anyone honestly disagree with the scouts that greg is fairly unathletic for such a good player? Yeah, they are overstating it with their BS lines about looking 40 years old, but I too question how his game will translate to the NBA, given that he can't jump that well without a running a start. He misses a ton of bunnies because he's not dunking, because he doesn't get up that well. Same reason he doesn't jump center before the game. A lot like Othello is that respect -- #1 prospect comign out of high school and then you see that he can't really jump. Now Greg is more athletic and has a lot of skills that O didnt have (passing and a handle), but neither is the type to get a rebound in traffic and take it back up for a power dunk. I think he'll make a fine pro, but right now he looks to me more like a future #2 guy on an NBA team, not a #1. If he develops a better J, develops his considerable passing skills, develops his handle, and his right hand, then maybe he's a #1 guy -- to me that says he should stick around for his junior year to develop those skills, even if he has a dominant year this year. But we still have a long way to go this season, so maybe he'll improve enough this year to silence the doubters.

Actually, it seems to me Greg could just use a decent amount more "bulky" strength. Often it doesn't look to me like "athleticism" that leads to his non-dunks or misses of chippies, but a lack of muscle to power himself through the traffic. To me his skills look super and his athleticism looks just fine. With an NBA strength coach/trainer, he's going to be a very very good league player. I think people will find out he can be dominating college player over the next few months.

[DanMcQ]

As good a game as he had, Monroe does seem to rely a little too much on the finesse game. Don't get me wrong, I'll take 24 and 15 every game. It's one thing to use it part of the time, but there are plays that require explosion to the rim and dunking the ball. It's difficult for me to tell if he simply lacks that physical trait or if he is just more used to a mid-range game. In other words, is he more of a forward than a center? Having said all that, exploding to the rim and dunking the ball a couple of times will only serve to strengthen his game. He has not shown that on a consistent basis yet. In lic-ese, he needs some more meanery.

It's a little puzzling since it does not seem to be lack of desire and effort - Monroe was as or more intense than any of the players last night.

[jhoyafan]

All of this BS is frustrating. And not from a standpoint of the so called scouts being right about GM, but that it's somewhat an indictment of our system.

No one scores in bunches in our system, and everyone is quick to point this out when someone finally has a big game like last night. So you're screwed either way. I just worry that this type of negative bile spreads to recruits etc.

As for GM, no he's not explosive like a Dwight Howard or Blake Griffin but that doesn't make him un-athletic. He's extremely quick on the blocks and can run the floor better than 90% of the big men out there. Not too mention his uncanny ability to dribble and pass the rock for a man his size. Sure I yell at him to dunk the ball sometimes when's he's laying it in but who cares when it's post moves in the first place that's getting the open looks.

I don't recall Lamar Odom ever dunking on anyone either.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

Eh, the same people that think he's not assertive and athletic enough would criticize him for lack of passing ability and feel for the game if he was a shoot first type of player who relied on pure athleticism. People will always look for faults in a star player's game.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

That's the thing Greg translates ultimately to a PF at the NBA level i believe not a center.