EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 9, 2009 10:42:30 GMT -5
Or if it's even more disturbing the Army Chief of Staff is only worrying about offending other Muslims in the Army rather than taking action to rout out other Muslim extremists in the Army. And, please, I'm not saying all Muslims in the Army.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 9, 2009 11:37:59 GMT -5
Or if it's even more disturbing the Army Chief of Staff is only worrying about offending other Muslims in the Army rather than taking action to rout out other Muslim extremists in the Army. And, please, I'm not saying all Muslims in the Army. The other concern is all Muslims in the world. Like it or not, the US is unfairly held to a standard where any misstep, even an imagined one, has led in the past to riots. If they picked him up, he almost certainly would have loudly protested his innocence. Had he been innocent, AQ would have picked up on the CNN.com article titled "Muslim officer suffers discrimination at home" and used it to prove that the Army is essentially a Crusader proxy that seeks to root out and destroy Muslims. Had he been guilty, AQ would have picked up on his court testimony and the discussions of the trial and used it to prove that the Army is essentially a Crusader proxy that seeks to root out and destroy Muslims.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 9, 2009 13:05:44 GMT -5
Apparently he is awake and talking.
On a related note, SCOTUS just denied a stay of execution for John Allen Muhammad.
In my perfect world, this is the first thing the person guarding Hasan would've told him as soon as he regained consciousness.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 9, 2009 14:04:02 GMT -5
Or if it's even more disturbing the Army Chief of Staff is only worrying about offending other Muslims in the Army rather than taking action to rout out other Muslim extremists in the Army. And, please, I'm not saying all Muslims in the Army. Think of it this way. If after George Tiller's murder someone said the same as above but replaced "Muslim" with "anti-abortion", would you be singing the same tune?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 9, 2009 15:12:54 GMT -5
Or if it's even more disturbing the Army Chief of Staff is only worrying about offending other Muslims in the Army rather than taking action to rout out other Muslim extremists in the Army. And, please, I'm not saying all Muslims in the Army. Think of it this way. If after George Tiller's murder someone said the same as above but replaced "Muslim" with "anti-abortion", would you be singing the same tune? Non sequitur. There have been numerous recent instances involving those who invoked Islam during acts of murder, attempted murder, or conspiracy to commit murder. Tiller is the only person within the past decade to commit a violent act in the name of anti-abortion.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 9, 2009 16:36:11 GMT -5
Think of it this way. If after George Tiller's murder someone said the same as above but replaced "Muslim" with "anti-abortion", would you be singing the same tune? Non sequitur. There have been numerous recent instances involving those who invoked Islam during acts of murder, attempted murder, or conspiracy to commit murder. Tiller is the only person within the past decade to commit a violent act in the name of anti-abortion. I guess the decade time frame frees you from acknowledging the Atlanta Olympic bombing, but whatever. My point is that when rooting out Islamic extremism, it's more productive to focus on the "extremism" part rather than the "Islamic".
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 9, 2009 16:56:11 GMT -5
Non sequitur. There have been numerous recent instances involving those who invoked Islam during acts of murder, attempted murder, or conspiracy to commit murder. Tiller is the only person within the past decade to commit a violent act in the name of anti-abortion. I guess the decade time frame frees you from acknowledging the Atlanta Olympic bombing, but whatever. My point is that when rooting out Islamic extremism, it's more productive to focus on the "extremism" part rather than the "Islamic". I disagree. In the past two years, in the US only, the following incidents have occurred, all of which have involved people who gave Islam as their justification for abhorrent acts. These are off the top of my head - there may be others. 1. A shooting at a recruiting station in Arkansas 2. A guy who plowed into some people at Chapel Hill 3. A Nation of Islam group whose leader shot an FBI dog 4. A murder of numerous people at Fort Hood 5. The indictment of people in Minnesota for recruiting people to fight jihad in Somalia Analyzing this as "extremism", rather than extremism with an Islamic focus, doesn't seem right - why would you lump these in with ecoterrorists, white power movements, antiwar protestors, and Tiller? In many cases, the key figures and networks are, if not the same, then associated enough to monitor and analyze. It seems clear enough that Islamic extremism is bubbling over in the US and that describing each of the above actions as that of a deranged person is missing the bigger picture. A more reasoned approach would be to accept the new reality, and work to address the problem as it exists (including working with the vast majority of Muslims whom are not violent) so that we can crush the violent and extremist sects before they kill even more people.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 9, 2009 17:43:56 GMT -5
I guess the decade time frame frees you from acknowledging the Atlanta Olympic bombing, but whatever. My point is that when rooting out Islamic extremism, it's more productive to focus on the "extremism" part rather than the "Islamic". I disagree. In the past two years, in the US only, the following incidents have occurred, all of which have involved people who gave Islam as their justification for abhorrent acts. These are off the top of my head - there may be others. 1. A shooting at a recruiting station in Arkansas 2. A guy who plowed into some people at Chapel Hill 3. A Nation of Islam group whose leader shot an FBI dog 4. A murder of numerous people at Fort Hood 5. The indictment of people in Minnesota for recruiting people to fight jihad in Somalia Analyzing this as "extremism", rather than extremism with an Islamic focus, doesn't seem right - why would you lump these in with ecoterrorists, white power movements, antiwar protestors, and Tiller? In many cases, the key figures and networks are, if not the same, then associated enough to monitor and analyze. It seems clear enough that Islamic extremism is bubbling over in the US and that describing each of the above actions as that of a deranged person is missing the bigger picture. A more reasoned approach would be to accept the new reality, and work to address the problem as it exists (including working with the vast majority of Muslims whom are not violent) so that we can crush the violent and extremist sects before they kill even more people. I would say I mostly agree with you, so maybe I'm not making my point clearly enough. I'm not arguing that the context of said extremism should be ignored, just that we should be clear on what we're looking for here. There was a commenter on Fox & Friends who posited "special" screening for Muslim servicemen. Something like that strikes me as completely counterproductive, as would looking for Muslims who are stridently opposed to the US missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. The key thing we should be looking for is a willingness to commit violence. There's reasons to view Maj. Nasan through the terrorism lens, but there are also reasons to view him through the lone whacko lens. There's no evidence that acted with a terrorist group, he seems to have done this alone. That puts him more in the camp of the VTech and Columbine killers, regardless of his motivation. So I guess I disagree that there's some sort of new push of Muslim violence in this country (not saying that there isn't any, just that it's not new).
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 9, 2009 20:41:24 GMT -5
I think the reasons to view him through the terrorism lens are beginning to rapidly outweigh the reasons to view him as a lone whacko.
Don't get me wrong. Anyone who thinks of doing what he did is a whacko to some extent or another.
But the evidence coming out of his contacts and attempted contacts with al Qaeda are getting pretty difficult to ignore.
At the very LEAST, I think we have to think of him as an AQ wannabe.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 10, 2009 9:52:24 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 10, 2009 10:17:32 GMT -5
Did they ever figure out who bombed that recruiting station in Times Square a few years ago? I don't remember the resolution of that one, if there was any resolution.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 10, 2009 10:27:41 GMT -5
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Nov 10, 2009 23:39:19 GMT -5
Where was the peer review and supervision on this person? He was a grenade without a pin. Hindsight or no, I want asses kicked and names taken in his chain of command.
The troops at Hood are now officially p.o.ed that more wasn't done.
I'd like to hear from some board M.D.s on this.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 11, 2009 10:25:40 GMT -5
I think the reasons to view him through the terrorism lens are beginning to rapidly outweigh the reasons to view him as a lone whacko. Don't get me wrong. Anyone who thinks of doing what he did is a whacko to some extent or another. But the evidence coming out of his contacts and attempted contacts with al Qaeda are getting pretty difficult to ignore. At the very LEAST, I think we have to think of him as an AQ wannabe. Why is it that the mainstream media was able to quickly and thoroughly explore (and exploit) Timothy Mcveigh's militia connections, but discussing this guy's obvious, documented links to radical Islam is somehow off-limits? Let's be grown-ups here. A man with documented ties to radical Islam went berserk and killed a bunch of American soldiers. Did he do it because of those ties? I don't know but the question needs to be asked and if radical Islamic fundamentalist sensibilities are offended, too bad.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 12, 2009 12:30:40 GMT -5
I hate to nitpick, but it's pretty disappointing that this man is not being charged with 14 counts of murder, actually. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,574551,00.html One of the women was pregnant. This a federal crime, there is a federal law regarding this. He very easily could've been charged with the additional count. That is sad.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Nov 12, 2009 13:16:11 GMT -5
Ooops. Following in the glorious tradition of the rescue of Jessica Lynch and the last stand of Pat Tillman, it appears the Army may have fudged some of the facts just a little bit regarding the takedown of Nidal Hasan. www.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/us/12hood.htmlApparently Sgt. Humbley probably didn't even hit her target, and she almost definitely didn't fire the shot that incapacitated him and allowed him to be apprehended. As bad as the NYTimes might be, I can't see them running this story on a single anonymous source's word. If so, the real hero of the past week should have been Senior Sgt. Mark Todd of the Killeen PD.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 12, 2009 13:44:12 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure on the day of or after the incident, Sgt. Todd was quoted as saying she was the one who took him down.
Either way, they're both heroes.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 12, 2009 14:01:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure on the day of or after the incident, Sgt. Todd was quoted as saying she was the one who took him down. Either way, they're both heroes. Exactly. They both ran toward the gunfire, as good cops are supposed to do.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 12, 2009 14:30:55 GMT -5
The NY Times caption to the photo of Sgt. Todd was also incorrect. The caption (at least on the web version) identified him as being with the Kileen PD. The article correctly identified him. He is not a Sgt with the Killeen PD. He, as is Sgt. Munley, is a former MP now working as a federally-employed civilian police officer at Fort Hood.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 12, 2009 14:46:33 GMT -5
BTW, Hasan's defense atty, Colonel John Galligan USA (Ret.) is Georgetown F '68. . .
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