CONGRATULATIONS TO ODU

[hoyaparents]

- An outstanding football venue
- Support from alumni
- A outstanding game day experience
- Support from community
- Media coverage
- A football culture
- A commitment by University to the program

Wake up Georgetown administration and athletic department, lets start anew.

[hoyadad09]

I watched the game on the internet and thought the same thing. Wow. What a great job that school did on the facilities and the whole game day atmosphere. I also felt bad for our kids who must have thought, this is a first year program and look at the way they are treated, and I play for one of the most prestegious universities in the country and look at the way we are treated. They even had warm up bicycles on the side lines. I applaud the ODU university and fans for treating their football program the way a football program should be treated at a division I college.

[odu]

Thanks a lot! We're all really proud of the team, the coaches, the fans, and the administration that has made all of this possible.

Hopefully it'll be a bit more competitive next year when the team travels to the Multi-Sport Facility. Are the plans for upgrading the facility still on?

Anyways, also expect GU back at Foreman in 2011, with ODU coming to the MSF in 2012. The game last night was the first of a four year deal.

[hoyaparents]

ODU, it was a great day.

With respect to MSF, don't expect any changes soon, it does not seeem to be a priority.

See you next year.

[DFW HOYA]

Nov 1, 2009 18:48:20 GMT -5 hoyaparents said:

With respect to MSF, don't expect any changes soon, it does not seeem to be a priority.

It's more of a priority than it has been, but too late for this year's upperclassmen.

guhoyas.cstv.com/genrel/091009aaa.html

[FLHoya]

ODU has done an outstanding job with its football program, and they're already reaping the rewards of their efforts. With membership in the CAA coming up, their fans are going to have some great football to watch for years to come.

Here's the thing though. One of my GU roommates was in town recently and I met up with he and his wife for dinner. They've both lived in VA most of their lives, and she actually has degrees from two CAA schools, so they both know the terrain pretty well. We got on the subject of how GU was playing ODU in a few weeks, and how ODU was a new program. And his comment right away--isn't that a perfect situation to start a program (or re-start? did I recall ODU had football once before?).

And he's right--Norfolk is a great market for a I-AA football program. They've got great HS football in that whole region, and there aren't any pro sports franchises or other big time college football programs very close to eat away local interest. I get the sense that the whole Norfolk/VA Beach/Tidewater area is a pretty strong community as well. Plus, while they're obviously spruced Foreman Field up quite nicely judging by what I saw on the video feed, it WAS there already.

For most of those items hoyaparents ticked off, ODU had an ideal situation--on a scale of 1-10, ODU was maybe 8 or 9.

GU on the other hand? Probably a 1. I won't tick off every disadvantage we have, because they're all well known to the folks who care to read this board or support the program.

I will say the obvious though and point to the last tick: A commitment by the University to the program. ODU is clearly putting a major push behind its football program...aaaaaaaaand we're interpreting it as a sign of progress when the Interim AD writes in a circular letter to state the obvious that the MSF ain't doing so well, and then in so many words pretty obviously implies "what we're gonna want you all to do is go ahead and lower you expectations...a lot...for what we'll ultimately do to fix this thing."


It makes you wonder how far a logical leap is it to conclude: Georgetown just isn't right for football.

And I'm not saying "we'll never be ODU so why try". We never will be ODU, that's for darn sure, but it's beside the point.

I am saying: how long is worth hitting the square peg into the round hole?

[98hoya]

I concur with the congrats to ODU.

I want to totally divorce how great ODU is making their program with the pitiful state of ours when I say that, objectively, ODU is doing a great job. Congrats. I'll always be a Hoya first, but I look forward to rooting for the ODU team.

[DFW HOYA]

Nov 1, 2009 22:44:45 GMT -5 FLHoya said:

And I'm not saying "we'll never be ODU so why try". We never will be ODU, that's for darn sure, but it's beside the point.

I am saying: how long is worth hitting the square peg into the round hole?

You're tilting at a windmill here. ODU is successful in 2009 because it is better organized, not because it is better by rule than Georgetown University or anyone else. It is also successful because it was smart enough to play Chowan and Jacksonville and Georgetown rather than selling its season ticket base on losses to W&M & Richmond. Nobody sells out 19,782 seat stadiums for a losing team.

I have tremendous respect for your support but such comments, all too common among some basketball supporters, are corrosive and are of the bent that basketball and football success at Georgetown are mutually exclusive. I reject this; in fact, the lack of organization shown by Georgetown relating to football is as much an issue than the efforts of the team or the nature of the sport itself.

If Georgetown gives these kids (and by extension, the coaches) the tools to succeed they will succeed, and not all the tools are financial. The program is at a point where the continual lack of progress on the field and in the booth wears out people, but it doesn't diminish the sport.

The good thing is this is entirely correctable and past experience at Georgetown confirms this.

Not too long ago at Georgetown was a men's team that earned even less support that football (or baseball or even soccer), which got regualrly drilled by local opponents. I'm talking losses to Guilford, Mary Washington, Salisbury State. Losses like that had people asking why GU was wasting its time playing at the Div. I level. In fact, this program never had a winning record for the first 18 years of the sport: 0-8, 2-6, 0-7, 0-9, 3-12, 3-11, 2-11, 1-13, etc. But it survived.

Georgetown figured out what it took to make men's lacrosse a winning program. It can (and will) do the same for football.

[kchoya]

What makes you think the school will figure out a way to fix the football program when all [public] signs indicate otherwise?

[hoyaparents]

I have attended the football awards banquets for the past four years, the same speech, "We are building a foundation for the future, ........."

No, we are still digging the hole for the foundation, we are now down to the sub, sub, sub basement, and continuing to dig.

This program is not going to fix itself, and there is no evidence that anyone is even trying.

I agree, we are never going to be ODU, I would like us to be 50% of ODU.

I propose we start all over again. Abandon this hole, find a new building lot, find an architect to come up with the plan, and start to build anew.

Our current hole may be too deep to get out of.

[odufan757]

Nov 2, 2009 13:22:27 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Nov 1, 2009 22:44:45 GMT -5 FLHoya said:

And I'm not saying "we'll never be ODU so why try". We never will be ODU, that's for darn sure, but it's beside the point.

I am saying: how long is worth hitting the square peg into the round hole?

You're tilting at a windmill here. ODU is successful in 2009 because it is better organized, not because it is better by rule than Georgetown University or anyone else. It is also successful because it was smart enough to play Chowan and Jacksonville and Georgetown rather than selling its season ticket base on losses to W&M & Richmond. Nobody sells out 19,782 seat stadiums for a losing team.

I have tremendous respect for your support but such comments, all too common among some basketball supporters, are corrosive and are of the bent that basketball and football success at Georgetown are mutually exclusive. I reject this; in fact, the lack of organization shown by Georgetown relating to football is as much an issue than the efforts of the team or the nature of the sport itself.

If Georgetown gives these kids (and by extension, the coaches) the tools to succeed they will succeed, and not all the tools are financial. The program is at a point where the continual lack of progress on the field and in the booth wears out people, but it doesn't diminish the sport.

The good thing is this is entirely correctable and past experience at Georgetown confirms this.

Not too long ago at Georgetown was a men's team that earned even less support that football (or baseball or even soccer), which got regualrly drilled by local opponents. I'm talking losses to Guilford, Mary Washington, Salisbury State. Losses like that had people asking why GU was wasting its time playing at the Div. I level. In fact, this program never had a winning record for the first 18 years of the sport: 0-8, 2-6, 0-7, 0-9, 3-12, 3-11, 2-11, 1-13, etc. But it survived.

Georgetown figured out what it took to make men's lacrosse a winning program. It can (and will) do the same for football.

As a neutral observer, I feel I should make a comment. I like the optimism you have that you can turn the program around (and I'd wish the best for you in that endevour as ODU-GU could end up having a very good rivalry if so).

However, I do think that it is a bit of a stretch to say that because you turned your lacrosse program around, you can turn your football program around. Those are two VERY different sports with different needs, costs, problems etc.

While it is totally possible that you can change things, I think it will be a tough road, so its up to you the fans to stay positive and keep supporting the team.

ODU went through a real down time at the end of Jeff Capel Sr.'s reign in basketball at ODU. Sure, we upset Villanova in the tourney in 95, but after that, it was all downhill.

Casual fans abandoned the program, ODU was averaging around 3000 fans a game for CAA play. The solution wasn't easy. First we fired Jeff Capel and hired Blaine Taylor. Blaine didn't win right away, he struggled with the players that were there and the facility that he had.

Then, thanks to a generous donation by Mr. Ted Constant and some other generous Monarch alum, we were able to build the Constant Center. As soon as we built that facility, attendance went up, recuiting went up and our level of play went up. All of a sudden, fans were excited about that team, the team got better, we got better recruits and it was a self-fueling fire. The excitement about the Constant Center and the renewed interest in campus life ended up leading us to debate whether we should bring back football. We did and the rest is history.

This year, we might have our best basketball team in the last 20 years, we are the favorites to win the CAA, we have the CAA POTY and we are loving every second of football as well.

It sure as hell wasn't easy to go from a commuter school that couldn't crack .500 in basketball or 3500 in the attendance count to a team that are the favorites to win the CAA, have been to the NCAA tourney twice in the last 5 years, pulled off wins over Gtown and Mason the years they went to the Final 4 (as well as some other high profile wins) and averages over 6500 people for basketball and usually sells out any game against a VA team (besides W&M). Not to mention now having a 7-2 football team and 6 consecutive sell outs.

It was VERY hard work to make all that happen, but hell, if we can do it, I am 100% sure with all the intelligent people and alums from Gtown and the spirit of that school, you guys can do it as well.

Gtown has some of the best school spirit of any school in the entire country, so I know the desire to be competitive and win in football is there, its just up to the alums and fans to put pressure on the admin to put in the effort to make it happen.

[98hoya]

Nov 2, 2009 13:22:27 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

If Georgetown gives these kids (and by extension, the coaches) the tools to succeed they will succeed, and not all the tools are financial. The program is at a point where the continual lack of progress on the field and in the booth wears out people, but it doesn't diminish the sport.

DFW, I'm with you in the sense that I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that G'town has the POTENTIAL to have a successful program. I should hope so, given that schools with a fraction of the endowment and alumni support have done so. I think the real issue is whether the will exists at G'town to make this happen. Beating the drum of "if the administration will just support the team" only motivated me for so long. I don't think they're going to do any such thing.

Make me feel better - what indications have you seen that they are?

[vcjack]

Villanova, Holy Cross and Fordham are the schools we need to look at to make the judgment whether or not football can succeed here. (conversely, we also have to look at all the other private catholic/urban schools where football has failed as well)

And I'm no expert on these schools but I don't get the impression that football is a hell of a lot more important for their students and alumni than it is to us and I can make the safe bet that they don't attract any non school related fans, so the difference between us and them really is gotta be at the top.

And since in this schema I've set those schools as our ceiling, we need to look to how they do it rather than pine for what ODU has; a community that wants football rather than a school and its associated people who want it.

[FLHoya]

Nov 2, 2009 13:22:27 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

If Georgetown gives these kids (and by extension, the coaches) the tools to succeed they will succeed, and not all the tools are financial. The program is at a point where the continual lack of progress on the field and in the booth wears out people, but it doesn't diminish the sport.

Look, I'll be fair enough to admit that a lot of my "corrosive" as it were comes from here. I've tried for...gosh, it's the tenth season now (I feel old) and I finally just can't do it any more. Won't belabor that point either--suffice it to say that I still care a little (otherwise why would I bother posting) but I don't care to go to campus and watch it any more.


But let's be practical about this here. We all can agree the current state of affairs in Georgetown football is no good, and some kind of major change in direction is needed.

So here's the question: what does a "reset" look like for Georgetown football?

One thing I didn't lay out explicitly in my first post was one particular advantage I think ODU had: they got to start "from scratch" and got all the bonus excitement that comes with creating a "new" football program.

Georgetown doesn't get the big buzz from the new program. As I see it, we've had two smaller "resets" in the last decade-plus: moving to the Patriot League and "building" the MSF. Has either led to big momentum in the program? That's up for debate. I'm not so sure--even less sure when I sat in the stands these days.

So what kind of reset is going to generate the needed momentum for the program?

New stadium? I think the time/money has passed where any new stadium will create buzz.

New coach? Didn't work last time. Do new coaches at the FCS level create buzz anyway?

Huge influx of donation money?

New Athletic Director?


The advantages ODU has over a school us--better pool of fans in the community, better facilities, better local talent IMO, better conference--are real. It goes without saying we aren't looking to make a splash like they are.

But wouldn't it be nice to have--something? And given all of our built-in disadvantages, I don't know what a "successful" Georgetown program even looks like after any kind of reset. 6-5* and playing in front of 2,500 fans--meh.

(*I should point out--it's been ten years and even 6-5 hasn't happened yet.)

[jerseyhoya34]

We tried the new AD approach with Muir, as if osmosis from ND athletics would help cure us of our football woes. As with the issues facing our athletics facilities writ large, there is a need for a comprehensive solution, but our capacity to fashion that solution is limited by all of the factors that FL mentions, not the least of which is the seeming indifference of the administration to get behind the football program.*

I would be surprised if there isn't some fatigue in the football donor base - and perhaps this board reflects it - due to approach of the administration, which has basically been to cut and run on the MSF project, when it could easily have been incorporated into a capital campaign or some other form of regular giving were it a priority as against other university projects. Early donors paid for what, by all accounts, was a sparkling facility, but they are now left with aluminum stands, awkward plastic seats, and trailer-outhouses. I would be upset if I plunked serious cash into the field expecting that the administration would be serious about and committed to the rest of the endeavor.

I, as with many others, stand ready to support a serious project and have felt the same way for years, but the project also has to be worthy of the time of the fundraisers and donors alike.

* I know there are folks trying here, and maybe there is something to be said for the "this time we mean it" sentiment behind Dr. Porterfield's message, which, taken as a whole, should be applauded as a welcome change. My degree of confidence lessens considerably when one considers how the McD development office went unmanned for semesters at a time (if GUHoyas is to be believed), one cannot give to the Convocation Center project in any amount that is $9,999,999.99 or lower, and the revisions, sur-revisions, and amended sur-revisions of the Multi-Sport Facility design.