Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 9, 2009 12:04:50 GMT -5
Another issue to take up is the idea that the Committee may have been impressed by domestic things, like the speeches on race and faith that Obama made during his campaign. He may even be deserving simply as the first African-American president. Nobody questions that achievement credibly to my knowledge. Certainly there are plenty of Nobel recipients whose impact is similarly felt at a domestic level. Martin Luther King may be one such recipient. Ask some folks in Europe about him, and they'll ask whether he's related to Martin Luther. Of course, the other alternative is that he is completely undeserving on any level and is being played yet again by an international community that wishes to neuter the United States and has a willing accomplice receiving their top award.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 9, 2009 12:13:29 GMT -5
Boz,
I personally agree the "World hates Bush" meme was very much overstated on the whole. That said, I still say Obama is more popular. And on that point, I end this rather pointless debate.
More important to all this:
The U.S. took Peace, Medicine, Physics, and one of the Laureates in Chemistry.
USA! USA! USA!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 9, 2009 12:38:35 GMT -5
With any luck, sometime after New Years, I hope to be able to report to the board how Australians feel about Barack Obama. I will be particularly interested in learning the opinions of Australians who work in the King's Cross section of Sydney.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 9, 2009 13:35:04 GMT -5
Another issue to take up is the idea that the Committee may have been impressed by domestic things, like the speeches on race and faith that Obama made during his campaign. He may even be deserving simply as the first African-American president. Nobody questions that achievement credibly to my knowledge. Certainly there are plenty of Nobel recipients whose impact is similarly felt at a domestic level. Martin Luther King may be one such recipient. Ask some folks in Europe about him, and they'll ask whether he's related to Martin Luther. Really? You think that becoming the first African-American president is worthy of the Nobel bleeping Peace Prize?
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Oct 9, 2009 13:54:36 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Oct 9, 2009 14:31:01 GMT -5
Let's see this award for what it is....the Nobel committee giving a condescending pat on the back to the American electorate for making a choice they finally approve of. This is just an "F You" to Bush and Bush America. The Nobel committee has embarrassed itself yet again with this absurd selection.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Oct 9, 2009 14:33:48 GMT -5
Boz, I personally agree the "World hates Bush" meme was very much overstated on the whole. That said, I still say Obama is more popular. And on that point, I end this rather pointless debate. More important to all this: The U.S. took Peace, Medicine, Physics, and one of the Laureates in Chemistry. USA! USA! USA! Actually, two of the laureates in chemistry are American citizens. The fellow born in India, works in England, but has American citizenship. And another actually, this year they awarded the Nobel Prize for biology as there was hardly a chemist in that trio.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Oct 9, 2009 14:35:37 GMT -5
I have noticed then when the European/UK press reports announces Nobel awards, all of the sudden Americans become "born in India" and "works in England" technicality-only Americans. Seriously, every American's national origin all of the sudden becomes highly newsworthy when we add to our insurmountable lead of all-time laureates.
In a similar way, NASA is just NASA to the BBC. It's never an American organization or located in any particular country. You know.....the space guys! The worst example I ever saw was an BBC piece about some groundbreaking surgery that didn't get around to mentioning that it happened in the US or Texas of all places until about 8 paragraphs in. Nor any mention of the doctors being American of course. It was just you know, ground breaking medicine somewhere....not important where! And yet there will be a shooting in germany described in the headline as "American-style gun violence." Really? Suck my balls BBC.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2009 14:38:19 GMT -5
Really? You think that becoming the first African-American president is worthy of the Nobel bleeping Peace Prize? On its own, no and did not mean to imply such in my post if I did. For example, a Howard Ford couldn't win a Nobel if he became the first black President (long shot) simply because he was black. Consideration of the astonishing achievement, which it is, alongside other elements of Obama's campaign, such persuasive speeches on the topics of faith and race, may be enough. I think most would agree that this is more of an achievement than that of Arafat or some other recipients, but I may be wrong. The context of history is also valuable here, I think. A black President from Africa, no big deal now, except when he has some other achievements/compelling work to enhance his candidacy. That this President is an American and product both of the tortured history of the US' race relations and the world probably gives his candidacy extra weight. That he integrated this into the campaign and gave it significant character with his speeches was no small miracle from a liberal's point of view in the US, concerted efforts to "other" him to the contrary. Not that I think the Nobel Committee made its decision on this basis, only that there could be a decent basis for the award if given for other reasons. * * * * * That people appear to be upset about the Committee's decision, however, is a bit much for the reasons stated in this thread and seem to fly in the face of the arguments as to why we should have been pleased by the IOC's Rio decision. All told, it is not a serious argument to make in the grand scheme of things.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 9, 2009 14:47:57 GMT -5
I will be particularly interested in learning the opinions of Australians who work in the King's Cross section of Sydney. There are some really great "attractions" (ahem) in that part of the city
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Oct 9, 2009 16:11:24 GMT -5
I thought what the President himself had to say about it was right on point.
Also, pretty classy responses by McCain and Pawlenty:
"Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., Obama's presidential rival last year, told CNN he could not divine the Nobel committee's intentions, "but I think part of their decision-making was expectations. And I'm sure the president understands that he now has even more to live up to. But as Americans, we're proud when our president receives an award of that prestigious category."
Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said, "under any circumstances I thought an appropriate response is congratulations."
I pretty much agree with them. Congratulations, Mr. President. Now get out there and earn it.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2009 16:47:35 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 9, 2009 17:48:57 GMT -5
Aww, come on.
That's what the RNC and DNC are there for. What would they do with their time if they weren't spending it on stuff like this?
I think there is a point when you have someone like Pelosi calling Americans dangerous extremists or, as you pointed out earlier, Cheney calling liberals terrorist sympathizers or whatever it was he said. These are some of the most senior people in government, those we expect to lead and at least attempt to be above the fray.
I think that's a whole different story.
But when its the DNC and RNC? Who gives a rat's *** what they do or say? Let 'em go at it, for all I care.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Oct 9, 2009 18:56:55 GMT -5
Ambassador, you seem to be all over the lot on this. Can you answer one question with a yes or no? Did President Obama deserve the award?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2009 19:22:42 GMT -5
Ambassador, you seem to be all over the lot on this. Can you answer one question with a yes or no? Did President Obama deserve the award? No, he did not deserve the award as given. So, point blank, in the here and now, the answer is no. My other points are consistent with this argument and are merely to suggest that he would have deserved the award were it given for other reasons, but that does not speak to the award made at issue by its fiercest critics.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 9, 2009 22:01:58 GMT -5
I was very much surprised that this happened, mainly because one would have thought the committee would have had more sense than that (even if they were the biggest Obama fans in the world, surely they should have realized how awkward it would be). Having said that, I think people's conception of the Peace Prize is a bit skewed. Everyone seems to think it is a Lifetime Achivement Award for Good Deeds. Maybe ideally it should be. But that's not what it is:The Nobel Peace Prize's aims are expressly political. The Nobel committee seeks to change the world through the prize's very conferral, and, unlike its fellow prizes, the peace prize goes well beyond recognizing past accomplishments. As Francis Sejersted, the chairman of the Norwegian Nobel Committee in the 1990s, once proudly admitted, "The prize ... is not only for past achievement. ... The committee also takes the possible positive effects of its choices into account [because] ... Nobel wanted the prize to have political effects. Awarding a peace prize is, to put it bluntly, a political act."
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2009 22:06:55 GMT -5
One of the richer snarks of the day from an official spokesperson at State of all places: "Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum — when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 9, 2009 22:41:52 GMT -5
Ambassador, you seem to be all over the lot on this. Can you answer one question with a yes or no? Did President Obama deserve the award? No, he did not deserve the award as given. So, point blank, in the here and now, the answer is no. My other points are consistent with this argument and are merely to suggest that he would have deserved the award were it given for other reasons, but that does not speak to the award made at issue by its fiercest critics. Do you edit every single one of your posts?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 9, 2009 22:48:16 GMT -5
No.
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H2Oya 05
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Post by H2Oya 05 on Oct 9, 2009 22:52:57 GMT -5
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